Again: Justice is not something to be paid. It is not a fine, nor is it a debt.
That's your personal definition of justice. You can find plenty of foundation in many justice systems where the punishment for a crime is paying a price. You lose something of value. You just don't want to accept the idea of death as a price to be paid.
I think you'll find that traditionally those who believe themselves superior to others always acknowledge that it's because God made them superior. I'm not entirely sure why that makes it better
Again you are the one trying to project the idea of Christians having an attitude of superiority. If you want to rationalize it that way, that's your choice. But we don't hold that attitude, we are not superior, because it's not our power. If two soldiers are marching together in an army, one is skinny and short, the other tall and muscular, then it could be said the muscular man is a superior ally for battle. But that's not the comparison of the Christian vs. the non-Christian. It would be like two equally weak men with no equipment, and one man decides to receive the most powerful armor and weapons from the King while the other decides to try and fight bare naked. You wouldn't call the armored soldier "superior" because he really isn't, he just chose to go to the King and receive the equipment he needed.
Here's what I'm reading, and why I object to it:
"God is just because God says He is just. It is evil to question or suggest otherwise."
You are claiming God is just. I have no reason to accept your word on the matter, I will have to be convinced through some method other than appeal to self-authority.
If you don't accept my word, you can accept any number of pastor's words, etc. There are volumes of books and hours of sermons you could hear. But if you just want to argue on an internet forum instead of learn the truth, it's your choice.
"Jesus died for our sins through noble sacrifice, you are too stubborn and evil to acknowledge it!"
As I keep saying, it's not relevant to my question. I'm asking directions and you're telling me the inner workings of my car. I don't believe in such a sacrifice, but I really have no reason to challenge or question it to address my question. It doesn't explain to me how God is just. Afterall, did God only convert from unjust to just with this sacrifice?
As I keep saying but you either keep ignoring or just don't understand (I'm inclined it's the former), it is absolutely relevant to your question because it explains how we are justified back to God. This sacrifice was paid so that the law of God could be fulfilled, so justice could be served. Without this sacrifice, the whole system doesn't hold up and we would not have the chance for salvation. God made it clear man cannot justify himself. We need Jesus.
To put it another way: without Jesus' sacrifice, it would be unjust for any of us to have salvation. We would not be allowed to enter heaven, only Hell. We can't pay the price of sin and still have eternal life by our own power.
"God has a different definition of x!"
Then the meaning of this new definition of x means nothing to me, or anyone who does not believe in your particular God concept. If God's definition of just means something different than mine then we are speaking different languages. If God has a perfect system of justice that we understand then we should be employing it too, not the imperfect system that we struggle with. Afterall, it would be perfect.
You're absolutely right things would be much better if we all willingly turned back to God and followed His way instead of ours. Unfortunately that's never happening.
But, if we don't understand it then we should not conflate it with "our justice." It would be something entirely different. It would be like holding up a tomato, and claiming it is a cat. Sure, it has no whiskers, tail, or internal organs, and it doesn't say "mew", but I swear it's a cat! From what we understand of justice, God is not just.
No it's more like it we hold up a perfect and ripe tomato and say "this is good to eat", then we hold up a shriveled rotting dead one and say "this is also good to eat." The dead one is our justice. And we can understand God's justice, you can too you are just too stubborn and are already convinced it is wrong. You have a lifetime to change your mind, swallow your ego and make an actual attempt to understand, the way God intended us to understand.
And allow me to be clear, I am challenging your concept of God. I am questioning your understanding. I'm saying your concept of God is unjust. I'm sure you will say "my concept of God is the correct one, therefore you're evil." But I have to question it as I can only understand it through my perspective. I am not prepared to bow down to your "superior" understanding, as I don't really think you have any.
If you really do have this great understanding of God and His Justice, then I'm sure you can explain to me how it is, in actuality, and despite my protests just, without having to resort to "because I said so" and "you're evil if you disagree with me!".
Nobody ever asked you to bow down to them. Well, except God. But as for me, I've stated several times we as humans have nothing ourselves to brag about and are not superior at all despite your repeated insistence that's what I am saying. Clearly you just want to twist words and spew shallow arguments, as everybody here has each given you an earful of feedback. Instead of actually address their feedback, you just stick to your erroneously simple view instead of looking at the more complex truth, then claim nobody is giving you feedback.
Here's a great example: you have yet to give me one good reason how it is *not* just for Jesus to willingly pay the price for our sins--thus saving us from death because we cannot afford the price ourselves--on the condition that we follow and faithe in Him so we are rehabilitated. By all accounts this is perfectly just. He's got the payment we need, and he's very willing, we just need to follow Him to receive it. It's no free ticket, it comes with that condition of faith. If it *was* a free ticket and the person just gets off free and continues to live their life the evil way they want to, I can see how that would be unjust but that's not how it works. So I'm still waiting for your reason. I don't really think you have any.
Because instead of actually addressing my responses thoughtfully, you ignored all of the details and simply (and falsely) claimed I only said, "You're evil if you disagree with me!" If you claim God is unjust for allowing us to have salvation through Christ, then on the flip side you're also saying you desire everyone to go to hell. Find anyone else who *would* disagree with me on this point. Give me one good reason why it is *not* evil to desire a fellow human being to receive eternal damnation and suffering, and have no salvation.
