How hell can make sense...

[mmksparbud]

You are giving the term under the sun to mean something other that what the text clearly states. Nothing under the sun---just means nothing anywhere. They are done. "There is no sun in paradise"---no kidding---they are not in paradise anyway. You are saying that the lost will be tormented forever right outside the New Jerusalem on this earth. And it doesn't day there is no sun on the new earth, it says there is no need of it for light, for Jesus is the light. There is a moon
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

And as the moon only reflects the light of the sun, there is a sun.

 

[Der Alte]

You are giving the term under the sun to mean something other that what the text clearly states. Nothing under the sun---just means nothing anywhere. They are done.

I notice that you have ignored most of what I said and continue to press this same argument. And you are ignoring Eccl 3:21 where the author of Eccl 9 did not know what happens to a man's spirit when he dies but somehow, according to you, in chap. 9 he is supposed to be describing man's eternal fate.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? ​

Try reading all the verses I quoted.

"There is no sun in paradise"---no kidding---they are not in paradise anyway. You are saying that the lost will be tormented forever right outside the New Jerusalem on this earth. And it doesn't day there is no sun on the new earth, it says there is no need of it for light, for Jesus is the light. There is a moon

Trying to contradict the NT with an OT verse.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.​

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

And as the moon only reflects the light of the sun, there is a sun.

"From one from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another" means "from month to month and week to week"

225 BC LXX Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass from month to month, and from sabbath to sabbath, that all flesh shall come to worship before me in Jerusalem, saith the Lord.
Targum Isa 66:23
23 And it shall come to pass at the time of the beginning of each month, and at the time of each Sabbath, that all flesh shall come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
[PreChristian Aramaic translation of Isaiah]
NET Isa 66:23 From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the Lord. ​

 

[mmksparbud]

Again, it does not say that there will be no sun, just that it will not be needed for light!! And the bible is the bible, OT and NT, the OT is the only one that Jesus had! There is no contradiction. You certainly have no qualms about using it when you think it proves your point!!!
I suggest you try reading all the verses. It is clear what is meant, death is death--but I have no doubt you will have your own interpretation.


Ecc 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.


Ecc 3:16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.
Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ecc 3:22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

 

[victorinus]

I didn't write it I only quoted it.

just think about and interpret what you quoted

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[victorinus]

that lìve on through eternity...their worm dieth not

do you want them to suffer eternally?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[victorinus]

How long do you think some fallen angels have
been chained?

do you want them to suffer eternally?

 

[Der Alte]

Again, it does not say that there will be no sun, just that it will not be needed for light!! And the bible is the bible, OT and NT, the OT is the only one that Jesus had! There is no contradiction. You certainly have no qualms about using it when you think it proves your point!!!
I suggest you try reading all the verses. It is clear what is meant, death is death--but I have no doubt you will have your own interpretation. . . .

I have read all the verses. Wrong argument with the wrong person. I have never said the people referred to in Ecclesiastes 9:5 did not die. I was replying to someone who quoted Eccl 9:5 trying to prove the unrighteous do not go to hell but perish. And I said several times this passage does not refer to man's eternal fate.
As for the sun.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.​

​

 

[mmksparbud]

NO need of the sunlight does not equal there won't be one! esp. when it's from one moon to another and there is no need of moonlight either. No need to keep going on with this---we will never see eye to eye. We'll both find out very soon.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Der Alte]

neither -- have a reward how?
anymore
as in already had an opportunity for rewards on the earth
You know that Solomon was only referring to life on the earth, as he ends Eccl. with speaking as to how every man will be rewarded for his works. A judgment is coming.
He tells people to fear God and keep His commandments.
Ecclesiastes 12:14
"For God shall bring every work into judgment...good...or...evil."

That is exactly what I have been saying throughout this thread. Somebody quoted Ecclesiastes 9:5 as proof that the unrighteous are annihilated.

 

[victorinus]

Don't take that word "able" as meaning will.

okay you tell me why God would choose to have them suffer eternally instead of just destroying them

 

[Der Alte]

NO need of the sunlight does not equal there won't be one! esp. when it's from one moon to another and there is no need of moonlight either. No need to keep going on with this---we will never see eye to eye. We'll both find out very soon.

I addressed this back in post #142

.

I notice that you have ignored most of what I said and continue to press this same argument. And you are ignoring Eccl 3:21 where the author of Eccl 9 did not know what happens to a man's spirit when he dies but somehow, according to you, in chap. 9 he is supposed to be describing man's eternal fate.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?​

Try reading all the verses I quoted.
Trying to contradict the NT with an OT verse.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.​

"From one from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another" means "from month to month and week to week"

225 BC LXX Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass from month to month, and from sabbath to sabbath, that all flesh shall come to worship before me in Jerusalem, saith the Lord.
Targum Isa 66:23
23 And it shall come to pass at the time of the beginning of each month, and at the time of each Sabbath, that all flesh shall come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
[PreChristian Aramaic translation of Isaiah]
NET Isa 66:23 From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the Lord.​

​

 

[Der Alte]

okay you tell me why God would choose to have them suffer eternally instead of just destroying them

Matthew 25:46
Mark 9:43-48
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 13:50
Matthew 18:6
Matthew 26:24
Hebrews 10:28-31

 

[victorinus]

Matthew 25:46
Mark 9:43-48
Matthew 13:42
Matthew 13:50
Matthew 18:6
Matthew 26:24
Hebrews 10:28-31

do you want them to suffer eternally?
please don't quote the bible -
I am asking you -
do you want them to suffer eternally?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm