How happy will you be in Heaven?

[Ken-1122]

The non Christian (without the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit) cannot keep from sinning all the time He can keep from any one sin at a particular time, so in that respect he is responsible for his sins.

]But Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit can’t keep from sinning all the time also? Christians aren’t perfect ya know.

Sin is not the problem.

Sin has purpose for the non believer.

Does it have purpose for the believer as well? They sin just as much!

Godly type Love is totally unselfish (you are not expect any benefit from your Loving). This Love is done sole because of what has already been done for you and not to “get” or become anything more, it is who you are now.

I love unselfishly as well. Do I have this Godly type love that you speak of?

All transgressions against God’s Law hurts someone.

Really? So if a man secretly looks upon a woman and sins in his heart, who has he hurt?

If you have knowledge of God’s existence through the Holy Spirit, you do not need “faith” in the existence of God. Knowledge puffs people up (something they can take pride in), which is just the opposite of what man needs. Trusting (faith) in the existence of a benevolent Creator is made easy by the need for a benevolent Creator to relief the burden of sin. Trusting in a benevolent Creator is something the lowliest person on earth can do (he should find it easy to do) so trusting God is a humbling act and that little humility is enough to allow the person to accept help (Charity).

Are you saying knowledge causes the Holy Spirit to hide? Just because a person has knowledge doesn’t mean they are bad, and just because a person has faith, doesn’t mean they are good.

K

 

[oi_antz]

Ever heard the expression "if I were in your shoes". It really means "if i were in the same situation you are in". It doesn't have anything to do with the things we wear on our feet.

Likewise with the Bible. Illustrative language is used to better portray things which couldn't easily be said using non-illustrative language as is more often done today.

People only get confused if they let something confuse them. If you take the Bible literally, you will get confused. Let's try this: quote one or two passages from the Bible that you believe are accounts of history and I will tell you what the point the author was trying to get across. Why the author personified everything and used illustrative language instead of non-illustrative language is something only the author can know - and the authors of the Bible are long since deceased. However, we can speculate.

There are probably thousands of books out there in which the author uses mythical/fictional people or things to help illustrate his point. Saying that this is done in the Bible is only going to confuse those who have been inappropriately misled into believing the Bible is strictly an historical account.

Thanks for the invitation, I hope Ken doesn't mind a brief excursion. Here is a verse that I am interested to hear your opinion of:

2 Samuel 6
6 But when they arrived at the threshing floor of Nacon, the oxen stumbled, and Uzzah reached out his hand and steadied the Ark of God. 7 Then the LORD’s anger was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him dead because of this.[d] So Uzzah died right there beside the Ark of God.

I wonder if you think this means what it says or whether there is a better way to understand it. Thanks for your insight

 

[bling]

]But Christians with the indwelling Holy Spirit can’t keep from sinning all the time also? Christians aren’t perfect ya know.

Again, “sin is not the problem”. Yes Christians can and sometimes do quench the Holy Spirit and sin. Those sins are immediately washed away. If and when a Christian does not quench the Spirit they do not sin during those times (the Holy Spirit cannot be involved in sinning).

Does it have purpose for the believer as well? They sin just as much!

The true believer gain stop sinning during the times He is allowing the Holy Spirit to be involved in what he is doing, but he does still have free will and can quench the Spirit. Sometimes true believers fall away for a time (this is kind of like King David) and the sins they get into are much worse than what they did before becoming a true believer. This is God’s “wake up call” to these true believers that they are back going it on their own without allowing God to be involved. Hopefully they will come to their senses and repent.

I love unselfishly as well. Do I have this Godly type love that you speak of?

What is your “motive” for being unselfish?

Really? So if a man secretly looks upon a woman and sins in his heart, who has he hurt?

The people he Loves and Loves him. Why is he not looking at her and not seeing a potential sister in Christ? Following through with that attitude could help her down the road. There are tons of wonderful stuff you can be doing (growing/ helping others) with that time that you are using lusting.

Are you saying knowledge causes the Holy Spirit to hide? Just because a person has knowledge doesn’t mean they are bad, and just because a person has faith, doesn’t mean they are good.

The Indwelling Holy Spirit does not hide from the true Christian, but that knowledge is humbling for him.

“The more we know the more we realize we do not know” (this is a philosophical proof for God if you want to go there). The problem comes “with knowledge comes power” and using that power in the wrong way. Knowledge (really knowing beyond a doubt) that God does exist can be used the wrong way and can produce pride in the wrong people.

 

[oi_antz]

I don't have time right now to read this in its full context, but the author of Samuel is clearly trying to use illustrative language involving mythical/fictional people to make a point. Apparently to "steady the the Ark of God" equates to something that is wrong to the point that it is worthy of the death penalty.

Yes we can read more meaning than is immediately obvious but I don't agree with your assertion that this is mythical, because that is the same as saying that the authors of the bible are lying. Do you think the oxen didn't really stumble as it is written? I believe what the bible says, but what you seem to be saying by calling the stories "myth" is that you don't believe that the bible is true, is that correct?

 

[Ken-1122]

The true believer gain stop sinning during the times He is allowing the Holy Spirit to be involved in what he is doing, but he does still have free will and can quench the Spirit. Sometimes true believers fall away for a time (this is kind of like King David) and the sins they get into are much worse than what they did before becoming a true believer. This is God’s “wake up call” to these true believers that they are back going it on their own without allowing God to be involved. Hopefully they will come to their senses and repent.

So what is the purpose of sin for the unbeliever?

What is your “motive” for being unselfish?

Depends upon the situation. Sometimes it is just a matter of seeing a need and acting accordingly.

The people he Loves and Loves him. Why is he not looking at her and not seeing a potential sister in Christ?

The reason is irrelevant; if she is unaware he is looking at her, he isn’t causing her any harm.

Following through with that attitude could help her down the road. There are tons of wonderful stuff you can be doing (growing/ helping others) with that time that you are using lusting.

The same can be said about reading a book. Does reading a book hurt others? I think not. I don't believe all sin's hurt others.

Ken

 

[bling]

So what is the purpose of sin for the unbeliever?

Man’s purpose has always been to Love God (and really the children he has created) with all our heart soul, mind, and energy.
In order to do that, we first must obtain this Godly type Love that allows you to be totally committed.
This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4).
Since God is “Love” and part of the definition of Godly type Love is unselfishness God is totally unselfish? If God is totally unselfish, He will do and allow all He can to help those that are just willing to accept His help fulfill their objective (Love). That “all” includes: Christ to go to the cross, satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kind, hell, evil, and even sin.
God is not trying to trying to get us to do something, but is trying to give us the most powerful force in all universes if we will just accept the gift as it was given (charity). Having Godly Love is having the most powerful force in all universes.
Will we know people do not like to accept charity especially from a giver that paid a huge price? People will try to earn the gift, pay back the gift, be more deserving of the gift than the next person or just say they got the gift without having to accept it. The easiest way to accept the gift is through accepting God’s forgiveness (this is after you have sinned) since forgiveness is charity, grace, mercy Love. AND Jesus has taught us “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”
The problem is God wants us to be like He is (God’s Love is compelling Him to create beings that can Love like He Loves and made these beings for the sake of those that will accept His Love).
We need to sin so we will accept God’s forgiveness and thus Love with Godly type Love.

The reason is irrelevant; if she is unaware he is looking at her, he isn’t causing her any harm.



The same can be said about reading a book. Does reading a book hurt others? I think not. I don't believe all sin's hurt others.

The bottom line is there are some things each of us could be doing that maximizes our service to others (Godly type Love) and anything other than doing those things is not serving others as much as we can, so they are receiving less.

 

[Iakobos]

Assuming you will be constantly stimulated with some sort of enjoyable experience or state of being, pretty chummy.