How happy will you be in Heaven?

athenken

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So is it you opinion that nobody goes to Heaven, they stay here on Earth and Jesus comes to Earth to rule it? No pearly gates, no streets of gold, everyone stays here?

Ken

There is a school of thought that suggests that when Jesus comes again he will remake the earth to become perfect. So basically just imagine this planet without any death, famine, earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, drought, floods, disease, crime, or any kind of sin.
 
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Ken-1122

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There is a school of thought that suggests that when Jesus comes again he will remake the earth to become perfect. So basically just imagine this planet without any death, famine, earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, drought, floods, disease, crime, or any kind of sin.

Humm..... Kinda makes ya wonder why God didn't do it that way from the start huh?

K
 
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razeontherock

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Humm..... Kinda makes ya wonder why God didn't do it that way from the start huh?

K

This is a fair thing to wonder - as long as you realize this is something we have an answer to. (The last thing I commented on, which you asked about, we do NOT have an answer to. What will heaven be like? G-d reveals to us within the confines of what we can comprehend, and the answer goes well beyond that)

This life has purpose. He doesn't want to remove that purpose, which is what you're actually suggesting. Whether you realize it or not. Consider for a minute the amount of power and responsibility that each citizen of "heaven" will be commissioned with. Do you really want such people running around w/o any experience?
 
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bling

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Just because something is instinctive does not mean it is robotic, forced or not the result of a free will choice. Is sin robotic and forced upon us against our will? If sin can be instinctive and still be a choice, why can’t love?
If it is the result of someone else’s programming than it is robotic and thus I can talk about “instinctive” actions being robotic. Sin is not instinctive even if it is inevitable, because man is not perfect.



Are you sure this love actually exists? I ask because Christians have not cornered the market on love; the love and behavior Christians have is no better than those who worship a nonexistent God or no God at all!

Yes I have seen this Love in action.

Why are these other non Christians “Loving”? Rarely have I heard the only reason being: “because of what has been given to me already”. All other religions have thing to be earned, spiritual ladder ti be climbed, and something to gain by doing good stuff.



The problem with having it all is there is nothing to work for, there is nothing to accomplish, you have no purpose, nothing to get out of bed for; are you sure you can be happy under those conditions?
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']RIGHT! There is nothing to “work for”!!! You have been given everything so your motive is completely out of gratitude. You can still help others (those that come to heaven without Godly type Love).

[/FONT]



Not all sin causes pain. Do you think the type of sin that does not harm anyone might be a temptation? And what about the gray areas? Sometimes telling the truth can be wrong and telling a lie can be right! How do you know in Heaven you will always make the perfect choice?

Sin seems to be the hurting of others by your actions. Unless you have gone past the point of no return and your heart is harden, you will feel pain from your sins.

In the story of Adam and Eve (you do not have to believe they are real) Eve is presented a lie by the serpent that contradicted God, so she should have seek council. In heaven the holy Spirit is visibly and you can ask Him if you are not sure.



On Earth there is no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden either! So why would one unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit on Earth but not in Heaven?


The Holy Spirit is the individual’s guarantee and not the guarantee for the people around him.

This goes into a discussion for our need to have faith.

Sin on earth is not a “problem” for Christians since it is immediately washed away. It all becomes part of the system of spiritual growth.
 
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bling

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So you don't have any scriptural references to back this up, then?

I did not think I need to, if you were familiar.

Like angels: Matt.22: 29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Angels can sin: Rev 12: 7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Satan had been an angel.

As far as the definition of Love:

1 Cor. 13 and 1 John 4 are good starters.
Jesus defines ii all He says and does so all the Gospels can be used.
 
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Zbigge1031

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Heaven is merely a figure of speech. People don't really go to heaven after they die. Therefore, you don't experience happiness or sadness after your death.

Heaven does exist, but it's not (to my understanding) what happens when we die. The christian hope is to be resurrected and part of the new kingdom of God established on earth.
 
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oi_antz

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As a figure of speech, yes, Heaven does exist. But it doesn't exist in the physical world. The word Heaven is used to described very wonderful things. When you hear people say they are going to heaven after they die, they aren't talking about a physical location. They are talking about their soul going to a non-physical place called Heaven. I can see how many people misinterpret this, as it is said in such a way that portrays Heaven to be a physical place.
The bible speaks of heaven as God's throne and earth as His footstool, so although we may be in agreement that heaven is not physical, it certainly is tangible and according to Jesus' words in Luke 17:20-21, it does indicate that those born of the spirit are citizens of heaven even while enduring their physical life. However the physical life ends and God tells us in many ways that our spiritual life never ends, that's the whole purpose of life really isn't it? That God gathers the wheat into His barn and burns the weeds. Why does God want to gather wheat into His barn? That's something that we just don't know but we choose to trust that He has good intentions :bow: Knowing what I know of Jesus' character there is certainly no other King I would choose to serve.

This is pertinent:

1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” 36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. 37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting.
[...]
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies. 45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.”[h] But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. 46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.
 
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oi_antz

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So is it you opinion that nobody goes to Heaven, they stay here on Earth and Jesus comes to Earth to rule it? No pearly gates, no streets of gold, everyone stays here?

Ken

Hi Ken, apologies for not answering this sooner. No I don't think you read my post properly. If heaven has pearly gates and streets of gold then yes I do think they will be perceivable. In fact I said that Jesus spoke these words: "In my father's house there are many rooms. I go to prepare a place for you". So in heaven there is a mansion with many rooms, some of which are prepared for His disciples.

You understood my main point properly though, that earth will either be rejuvenated or replaced by an earth which has no devil and has God living among them (read Revelation 21). That our bodies will be resurrected just as Jesus Christ's has been and we will rule earth with Jesus as king. In fact verses 10 onward in Revelation 21 describe the holy city. I think this along with what Paul writes of in 1 Corinthians 15, let me quote the piece for you:
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
Eternity is quite different from time, you should understand that the time we spend outside time and in eternity may appear to be a blink of an eye, but it will also be sufficient to entertain us for the full amount of time that we actually spend in the state without a body. It seems hard to explain so I can only hope you try to understand what I mean. This is how the scripture is written "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day".

This is how I presently understand the full revelation of God's plan for earth. I suspect that with sin eradicated from earth (Revelation 20:10), never-ending life and perfect governance under Christ that we can transform the universe into utopia. That is the hope I have anyway :)

What are your thoughts about this? Does it conflict with what you understand?
 
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oi_antz

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Humm..... Kinda makes ya wonder why God didn't do it that way from the start huh?

K

Because not everyone makes good decisions. His purpose for allowing temptation is to identify those which are suitable for living in a Christ-like manner. Notice this does not mean those who swallow what they are fed in church because not every church creates Christ-like disciples. It means those who apply Christ's discipline in their life. I also believe that there are people who obey their conscience yet don't recognize that it is Jesus' discipline. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 25 "the nations will be gathered before Him and He will sort His people as a shepherd sorts sheep from goats". Jesus is the shepherd who owns the lambs book of life. No other person on earth has the right to say who is saved and who is not, so anyone who says that [insert stereotype here] won't be saved is actually condemning themselves. It is written in Matthew 12 "36 And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. 37 The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.” And Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged.
 
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Ken-1122

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This life has purpose. He doesn't want to remove that purpose, which is what you're actually suggesting. Whether you realize it or not.

Why would there be no purpose on earth if earth were perfect? If Heaven is perfect, does that mean there is no purpose in Heaven?

Consider for a minute the amount of power and responsibility that each citizen of "heaven" will be commissioned with. Do you really want such people running around w/o any experience?

If Heaven is perfect, why would you need experience?

Ken
 
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razeontherock

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Why would there be no purpose on earth if earth were perfect?


I didn't say that. I'm saying our purpose is to gain experience. This comes via hardships.

If Heaven is perfect, why would you need experience?

To keep it that way :)

Seriously, please think about this. How much did Lucifer have to do wrong, to mess everything up? Adam? How are you going to go about having a Kingdom w/o end, where all your subjects are incredibly powerful, if they don't know what they're doing?
 
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Ken-1122

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If it is the result of someone else’s programming than it is robotic and thus I can talk about “instinctive” actions being robotic. Sin is not instinctive even if it is inevitable, because man is not perfect.
So why must sin be inevitable? Why can’t righteousness be inevitable? Is evil more powerful than good?
Yes I have seen this Love in action.

Why are these other non Christians “Loving”? Rarely have I heard the only reason being: “because of what has been given to me already”. All other religions have thing to be earned, spiritual ladder ti be climbed, and something to gain by doing good stuff.

Their reason for loving is not the point. The point is, they are loving so what makes your loving any better than theirs?

RIGHT! There is nothing to “work for”!!! You have been given everything so your motive is completely out of gratitude. You can still help others (those that come to heaven without Godly type Love).
Help them with what?

Sin seems to be the hurting of others by your actions. Unless you have gone past the point of no return and your heart is harden, you will feel pain from your sins.

I thought you guys defined sin as a transgression against the law of God. Just because you’ve transgressed against God’s law doesn;’t mean someone is hurt by it
The Holy Spirit is the individual’s guarantee and not the guarantee for the people around him.
This goes into a discussion for our need to have faith.

Sin on earth is not a “problem” for Christians since it is immediately washed away. It all becomes part of the system of spiritual growth.

Again!On Earth there is no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden either! So why would one unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit on Earth but not in Heaven?


K
 
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Ken-1122

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While the Bible may speak of heaven as God's throne and the earth as God's footstool, that is all just illustrative language the author(s) use to get a point across. God and heaven aren't real things, but are words used in lieu of something else as part of the process of using illustrative language to get a certain point across.

Okay so if I understand you correctly, it is your opinion that God is not real and Heaven is not real? Well I guess that makes my question; how happy will you be in heaven mute huh? Thanks for your perspective

Ken
 
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oi_antz

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While the Bible may speak of heaven as God's throne and the earth as God's footstool, that is all just illustrative language the author(s) use to get a point across. God and heaven aren't real things, but are words used in lieu of something else as part of the process of using illustrative language to get a certain point across.
Whoah! I've never understood people who say that what is written doesn't mean what is written. Do you think it helps Jesus' cause to confuse people like that?
 
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saved24

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Well, I can think of one thing at least.

God is infinite. That's an eternal curriculum, I should think.
As far as other things, I imagine we won't be sitting on our butts all day bored out of our minds. I'm pretty sure we'd have some kind of work to do. As to what that would be, God knows.

But to be honest, I don't care about golden roads or pearly gates or eternal mansions, or other such stuff like that, real or imagined. As long as I'm with God for eternity, that is all I care about as far as 'heaven' goes, so far as my own self is concerned. But I want others to be there with God too.

Amen! heaven is being with the Lord! :thumbsup:
 
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T

Theofane

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Humans enjoy building, learning, fixing, accomplishing, and making the world a better place than which we found it. We enjoy learning from our parents and those who came before us; adding to what we’ve learned and passing that knowledge to our children so they can add to what we’ve taught them and pass that to their children; and so forth.

But what happens when you get to Heaven, where everything is perfect? No more fixing, or learning, no more passing knowledge and accomplishments from one generation to another, all you do is sit around telling God how good he is; how long before that gets old?

Here on Earth humans rule, but in Heaven God rules and it seems to me humans will pretty much take on the role of what we would consider a pet! How happy do you think Humans would be under such conditions? How happy do you really think you would be in Heaven?

Ken

Not to worry, Ken. There will always be something to complain about in Hell. :p
 
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bling

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So why must sin be inevitable? Why can’t righteousness be inevitable? Is evil more powerful than good?
The non Christian (without the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit) cannot keep from sinning all the time. He can keep from any one sin at a particular time, so in that respect he is responsible for his sins.

Sin is not the problem.

Sin has purpose for the non believer.


Their reason for loving is not the point. The point is, they are loving so what makes your loving any better than theirs?

Godly type Love is totally unselfish (you are not expect any benefit from your Loving). This Love is done sole because of what has already been done for you and not to “get” or become anything more, it is who you are now.


Help them with what?
Protecting and preserving them for eternity, because they still have free will and thus could sin.


I thought you guys defined sin as a transgression against the law of God. Just because you’ve transgressed against God’s law doesn;’t mean someone is hurt by it

All transgressions against God’s Law hurts someone.



Again!On Earth there is no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden either! So why would one unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit on Earth but not in Heaven?


If you have knowledge of God’s existence through the Holy Spirit, you do not need “faith” in the existence of God. Knowledge puffs people up (something they can take pride in), which is just the opposite of what man needs. Trusting (faith) in the existence of a benevolent Creator is made easy by the need for a benevolent Creator to relief the burden of sin. Trusting in a benevolent Creator is something the lowliest person on earth can do (he should find it easy to do) so trusting God is a humbling act and that little humility is enough to allow the person to accept help (Charity).
 
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