How happy will you be in Heaven?

[ChristianT]

So sin won't exist in heaven (as far as we know through the Bible and reasoning), only the *potential* of it?

 

[bling]

Are you suggesting you guys will have the free will to sin in Heaven? If that's the case, what's to stop everyone else from sinning in heaven? Christians admit they aren't perfect; that they do make mistakes and sin every now and then, so if you sin while here on Earth, what makes you think you are gonna all of a sudden stop and do what no other christian has been able to do and spend the rest of eternity perfect? That would be like expecting my "tramp" of an ex girlfriend to quit sleeping around once I put a ring on her finger and marry her! If you can't do it now, don't expect to do it latter

Ken

We will still have free will, but since we have already obtained Godly type Love while here on earth, we will not sin. Sin fills no purpose in heaven (it has a purpose only on earth). We do not sin because (unlike A&E) satan is not around, there is no tree of knowledge (we have all the knowledge we can handle), there is nothing we lack except more Love which would grow (Love is not something to be “envious” of since those that have greater Love just Love you more then you love them) and we do not have sexual bodies that can cause us to be competitive and desirous of others (lust/selfishness/covet). We also have not hidden like earth God's Spirit (God) actively partnering with us in full sight.

 

[bling]

So sin won't exist in heaven (as far as we know through the Bible and reasoning), only the *potential* of it?

We still need free will to Love with Godly type Love.

 

[athenken]

bling where is your biblical support for this assertion?

 

[ViaCrucis]

So is it safe to say that you don't know if you will be happy, but you have faith that you will?

Ken

Of course. I don't know that there's a God, but I have faith that there's one. I don't know that Jesus is the Christ, but I have faith that He is. Etc etc.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ken-1122]

We will still have free will, but since we have already obtained Godly type Love while here on earth, we will not sin.

If Godly type love doesn’t prevent you from sinning on earth, what makes you think it will stop you once you get to heaven?

Sin fills no purpose in heaven (it has a purpose only on earth).

And what is the purpose of sin on earth? Please explain.

We do not sin because (unlike A&E) satan is not around, there is no tree of knowledge (we have all the knowledge we can handle),

There is no tree of knowledge on earth either!

there is nothing we lack except more Love which would grow (Love is not something to be “envious” of since those that have greater Love just Love you more then you love them) and we do not have sexual bodies that can cause us to be competitive and desirous of others (lust/selfishness/covet). We also have not hidden like earth God's Spirit (God) actively partnering with us in full sight.

People don’t only sin because they lack love or have sexual bodies, they also sin because they are imperfect and free to make sinful choices. If people can’t go a year without sinning on Earth, what makes you think they will go on for eternity without sinning in Heaven?

K

 

[pdudgeon]

People don’t only sin because they lack love or have sexual bodies, they also sin because they are imperfect and free to make sinful choices. If people can’t go a year without sinning on Earth, what makes you think they will go on for eternity without sinning in Heaven?

because we are first transformed and then raised in the same way that Jesus was-perfectly-and our desire is to please the Father just as Jesus does-perfectly.

 

[Ken-1122]

because we are first transformed and then raised in the same way that Jesus was-perfectly-and our desire is to please the Father just as Jesus does-perfectly.

So you are saying when you get to heaven, you will become perfect like God?

 

[ChristianT]

So you are saying when you get to heaven, you will become perfect like God?

I think I do remember reading that in scripture, so I would agree.

 

[bling]

bling where is your biblical support for this assertion?

We are to be like the angels and the angels rebelled (sinned) with satans help. Did angels have free will?

Godly type Love is really defined by everything Christ did and said. Did Christ make a free will decision to Love?

Love that is not the result of the Lover's free will decision would be contrived or robotic?

 

[athenken]

We are to be like the angels and the angels rebelled (sinned) with satans help. Did angels have free will?

Godly type Love is really defined by everything Christ did and said. Did Christ make a free will decision to Love?

Love that is not the result of the Lover's free will decision would be contrived or robotic?

So you don't have any scriptural references to back this up, then?

 

[bling]

If Godly type love doesn’t prevent you from sinning on earth, what makes you think it will stop you once you get to heaven?

It is not that it keeps you from sinning as much as you do not need to sin again (sin has purpose on earth as I explain below.)

And what is the purpose of sin on earth? Please explain.

Everything is set up to help willing individuals to fulfill their objective (obtaining and growing Godly type Love so you can Love God and secondly everyone else with all your heart, soul, mind and energy).


This Godly type Love cannot just be instinctive to man since that would be a robotic type Love and it cannot be force on man, it has to be the result of a free will choice with likely perceived alternatives.


The easiest way for humans to obtain Godly type Love for themselves is to make it automatically the result of doing something (just accepting) extremely easy (something any mature adult can do). This “Love” is such a huge gift (being the most powerful force in all universe, since it compels even God to do all He does) it can never be paid back or deserved so it must be given unconditionally, but that makes the gift, pure charity and humans do not like to take charity.


So you obtain Love as the result of humbly accepting God’s forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity, which is Love, mercy and grace) since (as Jesus taught and we can realize) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”, also means sin has to carry a huge debt and we will all have to sin.
This does not make sin “good”. But it is inevitable and necessary.

There is no tree of knowledge on earth either!

The tree of knowledge in the Garden had perceived value to Adam and Eve (even though they did not need what it supplied). When I say “no tree of knowledge in heaven” I am saying there is nothing more, we can even “perceive” as wanting, we really have it all. Our Love can grow but Godly type Love is not something that anyone can covet. If your Godly type Love is greater than mine it just means you Love me more than I love you back, so why would I covet that?

People don’t only sin because they lack love or have sexual bodies, they also sin because they are imperfect and free to make sinful choices. If people can’t go a year without sinning on Earth, what makes you think they will go on for eternity without sinning in Heaven?

In heaven we will have already experienced sin and the pain it creates and we will have already experience satan and can recognize him.

Our sexual bodies on earth have wonderful needs, but they also generate natural competition and differences that can be coveted. In heaven we are like the angels and might be able to take on any form, but not sexual.

On earth Christians do have an indwelling invisible spiritual, Holy Spirit, and yes, with Him and Godly type Love, we can keep from sinning. The problem is we can virtually unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit and go on our own resulting in sinning again. In Heaven there will be no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden, so we are not going to quench him unknowingly.

In heaven there is the “Been there done that do not want to it again”, But there is also a ton of stuff you have not done, but can now do and the Spirit of God is with you to do it together.

 

[oi_antz]

Hi Ken, I think you and I have different understandings of the purpose of time and eternity, so let me briefly outline to you how I have come to understand it:

Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords, that means He has authority over everyone.
Jesus had enemies while He was on earth. When He had achieved all He had to do, His enemies removed Him.
Jesus now waits in heaven at God's right hand until all His enemies become a foot stool.
When the time is right, Jesus will return to rule in His physically resurrected and immortal body.
When Jesus returns, everyone is resurrected, those who He calls His own will live with Him having immortal bodies.
With Jesus ruling there will be no excuse for any heartache, as what is written in Revelation 21 comes to pass, we will subdue earth as instructed by God in the first place.
With earth subdued, we can basically live forever with no more death or pain or suffering. Jesus even said we must become as children, and you know by watching children they have all the fun that the world will give them. This will not end when Jesus returns, in fact with righteous leadership and all of Jesus' enemies discarded, earth will be utopia.

Heaven is a different place, it is God's home. To my understanding the only promise we have of living in God's kingdom is when Jesus said to His disciples "in my father's house there are many mansions, I go now to prepare a place for you". There is no evidence that we have bodies in heaven, as our bodies are still buried in the ground. Our "time" in heaven is only a place for our consciousness to wait for the day of the great white throne. There are other places to go too, the bible speaks of outer darkness and even hell. It is written that Jesus holds the keys to death and hades.

How does this description compare with your understanding of the holy scripture? Any conflicts?

 

[Ken-1122]

This Godly type Love cannot just be instinctive to man since that would be a robotic type Love and it cannot be force on man, it has to be the result of a free will choice with likely perceived alternatives.

Just because something is instinctive does not mean it is robotic, forced or not the result of a free will choice. Is sin robotic and forced upon us against our will? If sin can be instinctive and still be a choice, why can’t love?

The easiest way for humans to obtain Godly type Love for themselves is to make it automatically the result of doing something (just accepting) extremely easy (something any mature adult can do). This “Love” is such a huge gift (being the most powerful force in all universe, since it compels even God to do all He does) it can never be paid back or deserved so it must be given unconditionally, but that makes the gift, pure charity and humans do not like to take charity.

Are you sure this love actually exists? I ask because Christians have not cornered the market on love; the love and behavior Christians have is no better than those who worship a nonexistent God or no God at all!

The tree of knowledge in the Garden had perceived value to Adam and Eve (even though they did not need what it supplied). When I say “no tree of knowledge in heaven” I am saying there is nothing more, we can even “perceive” as wanting, we really have it all.

The problem with having it all is there is nothing to work for, there is nothing to accomplish, you have no purpose, nothing to get out of bed for; are you sure you can be happy under those conditions?

In heaven we will have already experienced sin and the pain it creates and we will have already experience satan and can recognize him.

[/font]

Not all sin causes pain. Do you think the type of sin that does not harm anyone might be a temptation? And what about the gray areas? Sometimes telling the truth can be wrong and telling a lie can be right! How do you know in Heaven you will always make the perfect choice?

On earth Christians do have an indwelling invisible spiritual, Holy Spirit, and yes, with Him and Godly type Love, we can keep from sinning. The problem is we can virtually unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit and go on our own resulting in sinning again. In Heaven there will be no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden, so we are not going to quench him unknowingly.

On Earth there is no reason for the Holy Spirit to remain hidden either! So why would one unknowingly quench the Holy Spirit on Earth but not in Heaven?

Ken

 

[DCJazz]

Hopefully if you kept your eyes open, you already have my answer on this issue.

 

[razeontherock]

But what happens when you get to Heaven, where everything is perfect? No more ... learning

all you do is sit around telling God how good he is

it seems to me humans will pretty much take on the role of what we would consider a pet!

None of this represents Biblical heaven. Not even close!

 

[Theofane]

Humans enjoy building, learning, fixing, accomplishing, and making the world a better place than which we found it. We enjoy learning from our parents and those who came before us; adding to what we’ve learned and passing that knowledge to our children so they can add to what we’ve taught them and pass that to their children; and so forth.

But what happens when you get to Heaven, where everything is perfect? No more fixing, or learning, no more passing knowledge and accomplishments from one generation to another, all you do is sit around telling God how good he is; how long before that gets old?

Here on Earth humans rule, but in Heaven God rules and it seems to me humans will pretty much take on the role of what we would consider a pet! How happy do you think Humans would be under such conditions? How happy do you really think you would be in Heaven?

Ken

Somehow I don't think you'd be starved for intellectual stimulation in Heaven, Ken. 1 Corinthians 2:9 (NLT) says, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him."

You could do so much worse than being a member of His flock, here on Earth or there in Heaven!

 

[Forgiven828]

don't know about you, but i would be deleriously happy! no more pain, no more aging, no more hunger, being loved beyond belief, the most beautiful sights, having all my questions answered, seeing everyone i love, talking with people who were born and died before i existed...and then to top it all off there's Jesus! oh my!

i can hardly wait! With everything in me I so long to be there.

Exactly what I was thinking! I can't wait!

Somehow I don't think you'd be starved for intellectual stimulation in Heaven, Ken. 1 Corinthians 2:9 (NLT) says, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him."

You could do so much worse than being a member of His flock, here on Earth or there in Heaven!

This says it all. We can speculate all day and night but we are clueless! Even in our wildest imaginations we cannot comprehend what Heaven will be like.

 

[Ken-1122]

None of this represents Biblical heaven. Not even close!

So what do you precieve the biblical heaven to be like?

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Hi Ken, I think you and I have different understandings of the purpose of time and eternity, so let me briefly outline to you how I have come to understand it:

Jesus is the King of kings and Lord of lords, that means He has authority over everyone.
Jesus had enemies while He was on earth. When He had achieved all He had to do, His enemies removed Him.
Jesus now waits in heaven at God's right hand until all His enemies become a foot stool.
When the time is right, Jesus will return to rule in His physically resurrected and immortal body.
When Jesus returns, everyone is resurrected, those who He calls His own will live with Him having immortal bodies.
With Jesus ruling there will be no excuse for any heartache, as what is written in Revelation 21 comes to pass, we will subdue earth as instructed by God in the first place.
With earth subdued, we can basically live forever with no more death or pain or suffering. Jesus even said we must become as children, and you know by watching children they have all the fun that the world will give them. This will not end when Jesus returns, in fact with righteous leadership and all of Jesus' enemies discarded, earth will be utopia.

Heaven is a different place, it is God's home. To my understanding the only promise we have of living in God's kingdom is when Jesus said to His disciples "in my father's house there are many mansions, I go now to prepare a place for you". There is no evidence that we have bodies in heaven, as our bodies are still buried in the ground. Our "time" in heaven is only a place for our consciousness to wait for the day of the great white throne. There are other places to go too, the bible speaks of outer darkness and even hell. It is written that Jesus holds the keys to death and hades.

How does this description compare with your understanding of the holy scripture? Any conflicts?

So is it you opinion that nobody goes to Heaven, they stay here on Earth and Jesus comes to Earth to rule it? No pearly gates, no streets of gold, everyone stays here?

Ken