How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Anyone who has rejected God permanently does so because they did so since the foundations.

Not this, no.
Anyone who rejects continually the MESSIAH NOW TODAY in their life,
and is not willing to be saved,
YHWH KNEW before the creation of the world
they would willingly make that choice all through their life.

They, however did not exist yet before the creation of the world.
YHWH has always existed, and has always known all things.
People do not exist until YHWH grants them life in the womb at conception as HE has always said.
(Adam and Havah being obviously unique and different in the beginning of their lives.)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You may be struggling and working hard now to keep the law, ordinances, and commandments-

Why struggling ?
Y'SHUA said HIS commands are not burdensome. (and they are not hard to keep, just as HE SAYS) >>
"Come to ME, for ...." >

PHILLIPS
“Come to me, all of you who are weary and over-burdened, and I will give you rest! Put on my yoke and learn from me. For I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”


Matthew 11:30
KJ21
For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.”
ASV
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
AMP
For My yoke is easy [to bear] and My burden is light.”
AMPC
For My yoke is wholesome (useful, good—not harsh, hard, sharp, or pressing, but comfortable, gracious, and pleasant), and My burden is light and easy to be borne.

 

[EmSw]

Why struggling ?
Y'SHUA said HIS commands are not burdensome. (and they are not hard to keep, just as HE SAYS) >>
"Come to ME, for ...." >

PHILLIPS
“Come to me, all of you who are weary and over-burdened, and I will give you rest! Put on my yoke and learn from me. For I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”


Matthew 11:30
KJ21
For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.”
ASV
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
AMP
For My yoke is easy [to bear] and My burden is light.”
AMPC
For My yoke is wholesome (useful, good—not harsh, hard, sharp, or pressing, but comfortable, gracious, and pleasant), and My burden is light and easy to be borne.

Amen jeff. John has this to say -

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Not this, no.
Anyone who rejects continually the MESSIAH NOW TODAY in their life,
and is not willing to be saved,
YHWH KNEW before the creation of the world
they would willingly make that choice all through their life.

They, however did not exist yet before the creation of the world.
YHWH has always existed, and has always known all things.
People do not exist until YHWH grants them life in the womb at conception as HE has always said.
(Adam and Havah being obviously unique and different in the beginning of their lives.)

I don't agree with the idea that all souls are created at conception. I also don't believe in reincarnation. I do believe we all had a habitation with God before we were conceived in this realm.

Enoch 38:9 - "There was I desirous of remaining, and my soul longed for that habitation. There was my antecedent inheritance; for thus had I prevailed with the Lord of spirits."

"Antecedent inheritence" implies Enoch had already had it before. It explains why Enoch was desirous of remaining - not only because it was [a layer of] heaven, but because it felt "familiar" to him.

Enoch was predestined to be the 7th from Adam, who was taKen up (twice,) and gave his children secrets of heaven, and prophecies of things to come. This includes the Messiah.

There are other biblical and extra biblical verses that suggest intelligence (with or without form) before earthly conception.

If our self can be hated or loved by God before we have a self (conception,) then the implication is that [part of our] self existed before conception. How could God, honestly, hate or love a soul BEFORE it exists as a physical entity if it did not exist in any way beforehand?

Omniscience of God does not explain the burden of His preference and choice of calling for some of us.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I do believe we all had a habitation with God before we were conceived in this realm.

Yes. I noted this in your previous post.
It is totally contrary to too much SCRIPTURE.
The verses you think leans towards it do not indicate it.

How could God, honestly, hate or love a soul BEFORE it exists as a physical entity if it did not exist in any way beforehand?

How did YHWH know anything before creating the world and the universe ?
HE KNEW EVERYTHING....
PERFECTLY..... about the world and all the stars BEFORE THEY WERE CREATED through Y'SHUA.

Likewise, it is nothing to YHWH to KNOW a persons whole life "every hair on their head"
BEFORE THEY EVER ARE GRANTED LIFE.

HE knows and knew perfectly everything, for all time, before anything even happened.

 

[bottomofsandal]

What Bible are you reading?

Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mark 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I wonder why some do not even know what the Bible says when they make such statements as yours.

Sorry to burst your bubble...but you sin in your failure to obey these commands.

Everyone does. So, let's not deceive ourselves that we perfectly follow God's rules.


The Word says ALL your heart, mind, soul, and strength.

And love your neighbor as yourself...do you do this? Anyone?

Are you exhibiting Christ's love 100%? All of the time? Who is?

Are all your actions continuously bearing fruit unto God? No man.


You fail. We all have failed.

Do you understand God's holy standard is perfection?

You don't understand the commands if you nonchalantly toss them around.

These commands are holy. Not part of wordplay and silly nonsense.


You cut and paste a good game, but do you comprehend the golden rule?

 

[tatteredsoul]

Yes. I noted this in your previous post.
It is totally contrary to too much SCRIPTURE.
The verses you think leans towards it do not indicate it.


How did YHWH know anything before creating the world and the universe ?
HE KNEW EVERYTHING....
PERFECTLY..... about the world and all the stars BEFORE THEY WERE CREATED through Y'SHUA.

Likewise, it is nothing to YHWH to KNOW a persons whole life "every hair on their head"
BEFORE THEY EVER ARE GRANTED LIFE.

HE knows and knew perfectly everything, for all time, before anything even happened.

I respect your opinion, but I still disagree (not about God''s omniscience, but about our pre-existence.)

And, for others I am not confusing pre-existence with reincarnation of any kind. I mean two very different things.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I respect your opinion, but I still disagree (not about God''s omniscience, but about our pre-existence.)

Perhaps no worries.
The proof is not hard against it.
Just when I learned it long ago (decades) I never thought anyone in church would ever fall for it - it was so clear.

YHWH WILLING, we'll get around to this ..... (I don't know when though).....

 

[tatteredsoul]

Sorry to burst your bubble...but you sin in your failure to obey these commands.

Everyone does. So, let's not deceive ourselves that we perfectly follow God's rules.


The Word says ALL your heart, mind, soul, and strength.

And love your neighbor as yourself...do you do this? Anyone?

Are you exhibiting Christ's love 100%? All of the time? Who is?

Are all your actions continuously bearing fruit unto God? No man.


You fail. We all have failed.

Do you understand God's holy standard is perfection?

You don't understand the commands if you nonchalantly toss them around.

These commands are holy. Not part of wordplay and silly nonsense.


You cut and paste a good game, but do you comprehend the golden rule?

This is why Christ said, "why call me good? There is none good but God."

He was challenging the disciples to recognize who He is (God in the flesh,) to see if they truly understood what they were calling Him.

On the other hand, Christ was illustrating that unless you

Follow all of the laws of God
Give all to the poor freely
Help anyone in need
...
(Do every good thing possible all the time every single moment)

Then, you can't be called "good." In other words, spiritual "goodness" has a standard miles higher than "mortal" goodness, which may include volunteering, charity, or something else on a fleeting scale (not 100% of the time.)

 

[tatteredsoul]

Perhaps no worries.
The proof is not hard against it.
Just when I learned it long ago (decades) I never thought anyone in church would ever fall for it - it was so clear.

YHWH WILLING, we'll get around to this ..... (I don't know when though).....

He is willing, which is why I don't want to argue/debate (especially since the topic isn't necessarily salvation-dependent.)

I have been wrong about things I was sure about for years. Been up, down, up, and down again on the rapture, circumcision, Sabbath, holy days, and so on.

In time, He reveals the truth to me - as I am sure he does with you.

So if I am wrong, just know my mind is no hard; it is very fleshy. I am willing to break decades of doctrinal attachment for the Truth - no matter how painful. I have several times.

So, no worries indeed.

 

[Marvin Knox]

That's what I thought, you can't. You are acting as if Paul is your savior, Marvin. You need to read and do what the Savior Himself says. For His words are life......................

Oh my goodness.

I rather thought that you didn't believe that the Bible is all the Word of God.

I just didn't think I'm be able to get you to show it outright.

You don't believe that the words of Paul are also the words of the Spirit of Jesus within him.

I'm going to have to put you on ignore again while I digest this.

I know how to debate with people who believe the Bible is the Words of the Spirit of Christ as I do. I even know how to debate with those who deny it is the Word of God.

But dealing with a person who only believes whatever part of Bible that suits his fancy and helps him further his own ideas is a different and more likely more difficult challenge.

I knew your message was a false gospel . Now I see how you could have fallen into that ditch.

I may engage you again here in the future. We'll see how it goes.

I'm just not sure I can find any common ground with some one who just picks and chooses what scripture he will accept as coming from God.

My oh my. I never really thought I could get you to actually show your true colors for all to see.

 

[EmSw]

Sorry to burst your bubble...but you sin in your failure to obey these commands.

Everyone does. So, let's not deceive ourselves that we perfectly follow God's rules.

The Word says ALL your heart, mind, soul, and strength.

And love your neighbor as yourself...do you do this? Anyone?

Are you exhibiting Christ's love 100%? All of the time? Who is?

Are all your actions continuously bearing fruit unto God? No man.

You fail. We all have failed.

Do you understand God's holy standard is perfection?

You don't understand the commands if you nonchalantly toss them around.

These commands are holy. Not part of wordplay and silly nonsense.

You cut and paste a good game, but do you comprehend the golden rule?

You do not realize what you are saying. You are telling us you are not born again, and that you do not know God.

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 4:8
He who does not love, does not know God, for God is love.

 

[EmSw]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!

I rather thought that you didn't believe that the Bible is all the Word of God.

I just didn't think I'm be able to get you to show it outright.

You don't believe that the words of Paul are also the words of the Spirit of Jesus within him.

I'm going to have to put you on ignore again while I digest this.

I know how to debate with people who believe the Bible is the Words of the Spirit of Christ as I do. I even know how to debate with those who deny it is the Word of God.

But dealing with a person who only believes whatever part of Bible that suits his fancy and helps him further his own ideas is a different and more likely more difficult challenge.

I knew your message was a false gospel . Now I see how you could have fallen into that ditch.

I may engage you again here in the future. We'll see how it goes.

I'm just not sure I can find any common ground with some one who just picks and chooses what scripture he will accept as coming from God.

My oh my. I never really thought I could get you to actually show your true colors for all to see.

So Marvin, have you willingly decided to 'come' to Jesus that you may have life?

Have you found the narrow path which leads to life?

Have you entered the gate to life?

 

[bottomofsandal]

This is why Christ said, "why call me good? There is none good but God."

He was challenging the disciples to recognize who He is (God in the flesh,) to see if they truly understood what they were calling Him.

On the other hand, Christ was illustrating that unless you

Follow all of the laws of God
Give all to the poor freely
Help anyone in need
...
(Do every good thing possible all the time every single moment)

Then, you can't be called "good." In other words, spiritual "goodness" has a standard miles higher than "mortal" goodness, which may include volunteering, charity, or something else on a fleeting scale (not 100% of the time.)

Amen brother.

Your appearance on the thread has been a blessing.



We have some who see things differently...

As you astutely noted, we all abandoned milky positions as we grew in grace and knowledge.

There is a zeal without knowledge. And it does more harm than good. False doctrine abounds.


Regarding grace- we have folks who believe that their humility manufactures God's grace.

This grace of man champions man's inner goodness which "leadeth unto salvation"...


Man (some believe) already possesses the ingredients for salvation internally-

and his freewill humbles itself, obtains grace, and becomes saved. Ignore Ephesians 2.

Jesus never said we are saved by grace. This of course is not salvation. What is it then?

 

[bottomofsandal]

You do not realize what you are saying. You are telling us you are not born again, and that you do not know God.

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 4:8
He who does not love, does not know God, for God is love.

I choose to ignore these words since Jesus did not say them...

Ironic that when writing about love you behave in an unloving manner.

Clearly you have got your scissors working overtime. Snip snip snippety snip.


The Bible disagrees with your watered down "I can do it myself pov"

God says ALL the time. ALL your strength. ALL your heart and mind.

You don't do that! No one does! God's standard is perfection. No one is perfect!

 

[EmSw]

I choose to ignore these words since Jesus did not say them...

Ironic that when writing about love you behave in an unloving manner.

Clearly you have got your scissors working overtime. Snip snip snippety snip.


The Bible disagrees with your watered down "I can do it myself pov"

God says ALL the time. ALL your strength. ALL your heart and mind.

You don't do that! No one does! God's standard is perfection. No one is perfect!

So, you agree that you don't know God, nor born again? Maybe that's why you are having a difficult time with His word.

 

[Marvin Knox]

So Marvin, have you willingly decided to 'come' to Jesus that you may have life?
Have you found the narrow path which leads to life?
Have you entered the gate to life?

I've been cruising around the forum lately and looking up opinions about you. (Some have come to me privately unsolicited as well.)

You're getting quite the reputation as someone who is just a bit off their rocker.

I'm glad to see it isn't just me with that opinion.

 

[EmSw]

I've been cruising around the forum lately and looking up opinions about you. (Some have come to me privately unsolicited as well.)

You're getting quite the reputation as someone who is just a bit off their rocker.

I'm glad to see it isn't just me with that opinion.

So this is your response to Jesus, when He said to 'come' to Him that you may have life? Are you going to blame me for you not willingly 'coming' to Him?

Are you going to blame me also, when you stand before Him, and He asks why didn't you willingly 'come' to Him?

 

[bottomofsandal]

I rather thought that you didn't believe that the Bible is all the Word of God.

You don't believe that the words of Paul are also the words of the Spirit of Jesus within him.


I knew your message was a false gospel.

My oh my. I never really thought I could get you to actually show your true colors for all to see.

2 Timothy 3:16...ALL Scripture is God-breathed and useful


So now we know why God's grace is dismissed!

We were falsely told that man creates his own grace by his own humility.

Why then does Jesus say in Matthew 11 to learn humility from Him if we have humility?


Pride cometh before a fall. Yet man's sinful pride somehow manufactures grace?

Yeah, unholy man by his own carnal & sinful nature finds and makes grace unto salvation.

Is this a harmless teaching? Is this a false gospel? Did Jesus teach about this graceless fallacy?


It's clear that man cannot create his own salvific grace, so what is man concocting?

Deceitful fabrications, fables, and fiction. Man is ONLY saved by God's saving grace.


There is no other Name under Heaven by which men can be saved!

...since Jesus brought grace and truth per John 1, we know God dispenses His grace.

 

[EmSw]

2 Timothy 3:16...ALL Scripture is God-breathed and useful


So now we know why God's grace is dismissed!

We were falsely told that man creates his own grace by his own humility.

Why then does Jesus say in Matthew 11 to learn humility from Him if we have humility?


Pride cometh before a fall. Yet man's sinful pride somehow manufactures grace?

Yeah, unholy man by his own carnal & sinful nature finds and makes grace unto salvation.

Is this a harmless teaching? Is this a false gospel? Did Jesus teach about this graceless fallacy?


It's clear that man cannot create his own salvific grace, so what is man concocting?

Deceitful fabrications, fables, and fiction. Man is ONLY saved by God's saving grace.


There is no other Name under Heaven by which men can be saved!

...since Jesus brought grace and truth per John 1, we know God dispenses His grace.

Are you through with your ranting and raving? Are you ready to humble yourself and willingly 'come' to Jesus so that you may have life?