How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

EmSw

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Why do you argue pointlessly.
How much of mankind was consigned under sin ?

I'm sorry you do not like when I give Bible verses. And you make us believe you get everything from the Bible.

No one is given over to the custody of sin. Sin is birthed from a choice a person makes when tempted. Perhaps you don't believe James, as others do not.
 
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Tinyarch

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I'm sorry you do not like when I give Bible verses. And you make us believe you get everything from the Bible.

No one is given over to the custody of sin. Sin is birthed from a choice a person makes when tempted. Perhaps you don't believe James, as others do not.
Proverbs 14:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

8 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.

9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.

This is why everyone is leaving you and ignoring you.
 
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EmSw

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Proverbs 14:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

8 The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit.

9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.

This is why everyone is leaving you and ignoring you.

Why are you calling me a fool?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Maybe because a few people care for you,
and
you are locked in some survival mode rejecting
letting anyone help.
A lot of pain in the past, yes, and a lot of people
hate us all (anyone who TRUSTS JESUS),
and a lot of people
seek ONLY to hurt us.
 
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EmSw

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Maybe because a few people care for you,
and
you are locked in some survival mode rejecting
letting anyone help.
A lot of pain in the past, yes, and a lot of people
hate us all (anyone who TRUSTS JESUS),
and a lot of people
seek ONLY to hurt us.

So calling me a fool is caring for me?

You keep pretending you only go by the Bible, yet when I give passage after passage, you keep finding fault with me. What gives?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So calling me a fool is caring for me?
Why should I or anyone else care about you when you twist everyone's words around like this in your posts for the last several weeks (as several others have noted from the content of your posts)?
When you reject any and all help proffered, from the few that care,
as also anyone else who rejects the help, it is no surprise that someone called them a fool. (that may not be justifiable, but you did not ask for a good reason; YOU ONLY ASKED WHY someone did).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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You keep pretending you only go by the Bible, yet when I give passage after passage, you keep finding fault with me. What gives?
If you bothered to look up anything I said from the BIBLE, you might find out there was no pretending.
If you are unable to look it up , if you cannot use a search engine to find something, just ask.

The only fault anyone has mentioned, is you keep twisting their posts around to something no one said.
What gives with you? Are you able to say it? (we cannot require it; we only can observe the effects in the content of your posts)
 
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Noah837

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I think that this verse refutes what you said.

Psalm 51:5
…4 Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Sorry for the late response, I was extremely tired yesterday.

Actually those verses testify to what I said. David had got influenced into iniquity by the way he was raise. It could be the fact that he was born a human and thus more prone to sin or has more of a predisposition to sin instinctively due to our carnal nature.

But nowhere in the Scriptures does it say "original sin". That is false doctrine. You can believe what you want, I'm not here to get into a heated argument. That isn't what Scripture teaches us anyway. Yahushua didn't debate, he taught, reproved, and instructed.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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David had got influenced into iniquity by the way he was raise.
Just the opposite in SCRIPTURE.
David was raised right, in the way he should go. YHWH'S WAY. IT is written that he had a heart after GOD - not many is this said of by YHWH.

So it was not by the way he was raised that influenced into iniquity - in america, in europe, yes- much influence to iniquity even in churches, as the way children are raised in iniquity, and adults live in iniquity -
but David was raised right and true to YHWH.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Sorry for the late response, I was extremely tired yesterday.

Actually those verses testify to what I said. David had got influenced into iniquity by the way he was raise. It could be the fact that he was born a human and thus more prone to sin or has more of a predisposition to sin instinctively due to our carnal nature.

But nowhere in the Scriptures does it say "original sin". That is false doctrine. You can believe what you want, I'm not here to get into a heated argument. That isn't what Scripture teaches us anyway. Yahushua didn't debate, he taught, reproved, and instructed.
I really don't see how you can not see that these verses show that in the womb we have a tendency towards sin.

From when we are babies that we cry to get fed, to satisfy our bodies and ourselves.

Please read these verses again.

Psalm 51:5
…4 Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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How can the grace of God be resisted ? (title).
How ?
Does it matter ?
Most the whole world not only resist,
but most the whole world rejects SALVATION.

Society is set up to kill, steal and destroy. (as it is written in Galatians- "pernicious").

God's Grace saves those HE saves from this.
 
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bling

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I think that this verse refutes what you said.

Psalm 51:5
…4 Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

If you will allow me I would love to address your post:

First off, you have to read carefully and might have to go back to the Hebrew to understand, David in Psalms 51:5 poetically says: “He was conceived through his mother’s sinning and not his personal sin.” You can go back to the Jewish Talmud to see how the early Jews interpreted this verse.

But I would use this explanation:

by William P. Murray, Jr.

Are men born sinners? A commonly abused 'proof' text is Psalm 51:5. Although I cannot claim the following as a result of my own scholarship or research, the information is a culmination from many sources over the years, and, I feel, the best explanation of this particular text that I have come across.

Psalm 51:5 - "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." KJV

This is a Hebrew poetic parallelism, with the second line of the verse saying the same thing as the first line in a slightly different way. The first verb, of which David is the subject, is in the Pulal tense (as is "made" in # Job 15:7 ), which is an idiom used to refer to creation or origins, and is the 'passive' form of Polel ("formed": # Ps 90:2 Pro 26:10 ). TWOT, #623, 1:270.

The subject of this verse is NOT the state or constitution of David's nature as a sinner at, or before, his birth. The subject is, as the verse clearly states, the 'circumstances' of his conception- the sexual union which produced him was an act of sin, and addresses the unrighteousness of his mother's act, not anything (such as a sin nature) inherent within himself. (The NIV's version of this verse is an INTERPRETATION, not a translation: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.")

Psalms 58:3 Again, this is very poetic and an obvious hyperbole, not to be taken literally, since a baby just out of the womb cannot “lie” and in 58:4 “Their venom is like the venom of a snake”, new born babies do not literally have venom, so this cannot be taken literally.

These people are extremely bad and show being bad from their youth, but does that have to describe everyone?


Some scriptures on why I think man is born free of sin so:

Deut. 24:16, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

2 Kings 14:6, But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Ezek. 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Ezek.33:20, "Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways."

Jer. 31:29-30 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."

God tells us that we do not inherit anyone's sin (Ezek. 18:20; cf. 2 Ki. 14:6). We sin after giving into temptation. We are tempted when we are carried away and enticed by our own lusts (Ja. 1:13- 15).

Then when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death (Ja. 1:

Jesus teaches us that we must become as little children to enter the kingdom of God (Matt. 18:3- 4; Lk. 18:16-17) ---- we must be as infants regarding evil (1 Cor. 14:20). Therefore, babies are born without sin. If they die, they are safe, because they have no sin
 
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Noah837

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Yes, I couldn't have said it better myself bling. If children and babies are indeed born sinners, why would Yahushua say to become as a child to inherit the kingdom of Yahuah? Because if children are sinners too, then we must become as a sinner to inherit the Kingdom? That makes no sense.

Original sin is a very dangerous doctrine that has been brought forth. We are born with a carnal nature and because of that, we sin. Yahushua was born carnal but of the Holy Spirit.

So you may be disregarding the obvious here, but obviously small toddlers and babies do not have sin because they are incapable of committing sin.

We may agree to disagree TobeLoved, but the scripture that bling has put forth is plain. Sin is breaking the law of Yah. A baby can't break the law, it can't cause divisions, strife, be sexually immoral, be an idolater, be an adulterer, practice homosexuality, be a thief, be greedy, be a drunkard, be a reviler, be a swindler, practice sorcery, cause enmity or rivalries, and be a liar.
 
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Marvin Knox

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So you guys believe babies and children are not innocent and can go to hell? A baby cannot repent of its sins, so that is a bit unfair, is it not?
I assume since you said "you guys" it' OK to answer this.

Where has anyone here said that babies or even children go to Hell? Please provide a quote if you can find one.

Certainly there are many who believe babies who die at an early age or in the womb go to Hell. But they are in the minority even among 5-point Calvinists.

Reformed believe that salvation is by grace. Thus infants and children who dies in innocence before actually sinning are likely among the elect of God.

Babies have not sinned. They do have a sin nature due to the original sin of Adam our corporate head and are thus bound to sin sooner or later - but they have not sinned.

Born again Christians have not become perfect and without sin either. We have a perfect nature in our new man due to the perfect life of our corporate head and thus will be perfectly without sin someday.

An understanding of the federal nature of our life in the first Adam forms the basis for our understanding of the federal nature of our life in the second and last Adam.

This doctrine is what makes the Christian belief that we don't have to become perfect in this life or even overcome sin to some arbitrary standard in order to be saved scripturally viable.

Of course many here don't believe that to be the case - EmSw being the most prominent current poster to deny these doctrines and thus deny that salvation is grace based.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So you guys believe babies and children are not innocent and can go to hell? A baby cannot repent of its sins, so that is a bit unfair, is it not?

I know God is fair, righteous and just. And all things are judged by Him.

I don't know why people are always messing with these questions.

God is handling it.
 
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Marvin Knox

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I know God is fair, righteous and just. And all things are judged by Him. I don't know why people are always messing with these questions. God is handling it.
I also know (as do all Calvinists) that God is fair, righteous and just and that all things are judged by Hm.

I, just as you, don't know why people keep saying things like Calvinists believe babies go to Hell.

I wish people would just stop messing with these questions.

God is handling it according to plan just as He intended to do before the foundation of the world.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I also know (as do all Calvinists) that God is fair, righteous and just and that all things are judged by Hm.

I, just as you, don't know why people keep saying things like Calvinists believe babies go to Hell.

I wish people would just stop messing with these questions.

God is handling it according to plan just as He intended to do before the foundation of the world.
That was meant in general, to all people about babies going to hell.

Not for the Calvinist or the Armian or anyone in between.
 
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Noah837

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I assume since you said "you guys" it' OK to answer this.

Where has anyone here said that babies or even children go to Hell? Please provide a quote if you can find one.

Certainly there are many who believe babies who die at an early age or in the womb go to Hell. But they are in the minority even among 5-point Calvinists.

Reformed believe that salvation is by grace. Thus infants and children who dies in innocence before actually sinning are likely among the elect of God.

Babies have not sinned. They do have a sin nature due to the original sin of Adam our corporate head and are thus bound to sin sooner or later - but they have not sinned.

Born again Christians have not become perfect and without sin either. We have a perfect nature in our new man due to the perfect life of our corporate head and thus will be perfectly without sin someday.

An understanding of the federal nature of our life in the first Adam forms the basis for our understanding of the federal nature of our life in the second and last Adam.

This doctrine is what makes the Christian belief that we don't have to become perfect in this life or even overcome sin to some arbitrary standard in order to be saved scripturally viable.

Of course many here don't believe that to be the case - EmSw being the most prominent current poster to deny these doctrines and thus deny that salvation is grace based.
Although we are under grace, we are also under the law of Yahuwah and the ten commandments. We must work out our salvation daily with reverence and trembling. You can't have faith without works or living an unfruitful life because we are supposed to bear the fruits of the Spirit and vice versa with having works but no faith. Faith and works coincide with one another just like you cannot have a physical body without a soul to complete yourself. The one who bears bad fruit will be cut down. Lukewarms will also receive the same fate. The fruit you bare defines who you are. We must be holy as Yah is holy.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So you guys believe babies and children are not innocent and can go to hell? A baby cannot repent of its sins, so that is a bit unfair, is it not?
Now you are adding your own words to what we have said.

I believe and trust that God is just, fair and righteous. I believe that He knows what He is doing and that His plan is just. I do not know, nor do I need to know the answers to all questions. That is faith, knowing God and trusting His perfect attributes.
 
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