Homosexuality

[Floatingaxe]

Are you saying that because you cannot answer the poster's arguments, they are to be labeled "boring?"

It's boring because it's old and tired, and nothing but rationalization.

The bible is clear, and homosexuals who care to wear the label "Christian" don't even live by the Word. It's very obvious that they are merely cultural Christians who have chosen their "religion of preference" like some sort of philosophy and no less like the purchase of a new car for status.

Christianity requires the acceptance of Jesus Christ's atonement for salvation, and the entering into relationship with Him, who is alive forevermore. It is a life-changing and life-giving decision.

There is no life changing in homosexuals, foir they have not fully repented of their sin. They negate all that Christ has done for them on the cross, as they would much rather sin than be holy people. God rejects those He doesn't know...those who are disobedient.

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.

 

[Catholicon]

Homosexuality doesn't need to be repented because IT IS NOT A SIN.

GOD made people homosexual, so if you say homosexuality is wrong then you're disagreeing with God!

 

[Somelier]

Okay, on that note, if you believe same-sex sex to be blessed by God as it has been claimed in here, then please show me why you believe it is so. Scriptural evidence would be best, but whatever you have.

I don't like to play "scripture games." (no offense.)

I'm a man of few words.

I know many gay people - all of them are positive, grounded people. Most of them are christian - despite the church's best attempts to chase them away from the body of Christ.

None of them are the reprobate monsters that many around here make them out to be. Why WOULDN'T God bless them?

I don't understand why so many feel the apparent need to judge others. Do they think God needs their help? Are they unaware that God is the ONLY judge?

I mean no offense to you J_A_J: most of what I have read in your posts is courteous and respectful. I don't think that can be said of many others here.

 

[Somelier]

The bible is clear, and homosexuals who care to wear the label "Christian" don't even live by the Word. It's very obvious that they are merely cultural Christians who have chosen their "religion of preference" like some sort of philosophy and no less like the purchase of a new car for status.

If you have to wear Christian as a "label," then following Christ is lost on you.

Gays and lesbians follow Jesus just like you and me.

Christianity requires the acceptance of Jesus Christ's atonement for salvation, and the entering into relationship with Him, who is alive forevermore. It is a life-changing and life-giving decision.

Christianity requires a humble and contrite heart, a willingness to reach out to others in love, and the humility to realize that none of us is perfect - least of all ourselves.

There is no life changing in homosexuals, foir they have not fully repented of their sin.

You do not have a magic window into the spiritual lives of gays and lesbians...or anyone else, for that matter.

Perhaps leaving judgment to the Judge would be a very wise option for you.

They negate all that Christ has done for them on the cross, as they would much rather sin than be holy people.

Nobody can negate the saving power of God. Otherwise, how would God be God?

God rejects those He doesn't know...those who are disobedient.

I think you are talking mostly about yourself, and not our loving Father who created us. He rejects nothing he has made.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Says who? You?

What's your source of information?

Homosexuality doesn't need to be repented because IT IS NOT A SIN.

GOD made people homosexual, so if you say homosexuality is wrong then you're disagreeing with God!

 

[IamRedeemed]

Those who follow as well as teach the ways of the Lord,
do not have to wear a "label", as it is our identity.

Homosexual is the identity of homosexuals. They are the only
sinners whose sin is acceptable to God according to them.

Homosexuals are clearly NOT following Jesus Christ, the Son of the
Living God. My God says homosexuality is detestable in His sight.
He has spoken and history proves it as recorded in His Word.
God will judge the earth. Jesus is returning with judgment in His hands.
He ascended into heaven when He was resurrected, the Lamb of God,
but He is returning KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS as recorded
in His Word.

That's my source of information, what is yours?

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If you have to wear Christian as a "label," then following Christ is lost on you.

Gays and lesbians follow Jesus just like you and me.

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Christianity requires a humble and contrite heart, a willingness to reach out to others in love, and the humility to realize that none of us is perfect - least of all ourselves.

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You do not have a magic window into the spiritual lives of gays and lesbians...or anyone else, for that matter.

Perhaps leaving judgment to the Judge would be a very wise option for you.

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Nobody can negate the saving power of God. Otherwise, how would God be God?

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I think you are talking mostly about yourself, and not our loving Father who created us. He rejects nothing he has made.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I would beg to differ that you are a "man of few words". You've been doing
nothing but talking since you arrived. In fact I think you are a sock puppet.
I could be wrong, but that's what I believe. You don't like to speak
regarding the Scriptures, because you have NOTHING from the Scriptures
to back up your defense of homosexual behavior. You are "gods" unto yourselves.
Those that practice it and those who defend the practice, because you deny
the only written Word God has ever supplied to man, and make for yourselves
new doctrine that you invent yourselves.

I don't like to play "scripture games." (no offense.)

I'm a man of few words.

I know many gay people - all of them are positive, grounded people. Most of them are christian - despite the church's best attempts to chase them away from the body of Christ.

None of them are the reprobate monsters that many around here make them out to be. Why WOULDN'T God bless them?

I don't understand why so many feel the apparent need to judge others. Do they think God needs their help? Are they unaware that God is the ONLY judge?

I mean no offense to you J_A_J: most of what I have read in your posts is courteous and respectful. I don't think that can be said of many others here.

 

[Somelier]

Those who follow as well as teach the ways of the Lord,
do not have to wear a "label", as it is our identity.

I think people should learn how to LIVE Christianity before trying to preach it. The world would be a far better (and more humble) place.

Homosexual is the identity of homosexuals. They are the only
sinners whose sin is acceptable to God according to them.

That's a heavy judgment.

Maybe they don't read the scripture with the same narrow vision that you do. It's possible there's more room than you think for interpretation.

Homosexuals are clearly NOT following Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Strange...the gay Christians I know CLEARLY follow Christ. Many of them are wonderful examples of selfless love.

My God says homosexuality is detestable in His sight.

Maybe this is at the crux of your own problem. You state very clearly here that you think you OWN God.

 

[Somelier]

I would beg to differ that you are a "man of few words". You've been doing
nothing but talking since you arrived. In fact I think you are a sock puppet.
I could be wrong, but that's what I believe. You don't like to speak
regarding the Scriptures, because you have NOTHING from the Scriptures
to back up your defense of homosexual behavior. You are "gods" unto yourselves.
Those that practice it and those who defend the practice, because you deny
the only written Word God has ever supplied to man, and make for yourselves
new doctrine that you invent yourselves.

Q. Is this or is it not a debate forum open to all who accept the rules?

Q. Could you enlighten me to what a sock puppet is? Is it some kind of fundamentalist put-down?

Q. When did I state that I don't like to speak regarding the scriptures? I just don't like to see them used as an arsenal against the children of God.

Q. Did I defend (or condemn) homosexual behavior? The answer is neither - I merely suggested that we leave the judging to God.

* You have not won any points for hospitality. That is plain for all to see.

 

[RMDY]

Homosexuality doesn't need to be repented because IT IS NOT A SIN.

GOD made people homosexual, so if you say homosexuality is wrong then you're disagreeing with God!

God did not make people homosexual. Babies are not even sexually oriented apart from the obvious at birth, so how can you say one is born a homosexual when a baby has no idea of anything?
I tell you the truth, God did not make people homosexuals at birth. It is later in life that one "discovers" they are homosexual and then deduces that they were born that way. That is like arguing that because we sin and have a human nature that God created us this way---to sin. I reject what you say.

II Timothy 2:20-21 (KJV) not only - “...In a great house there arevessels ofgold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these [what is dishonorable or unclean], he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.”

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are now children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we know that when it [or, He] shall be revealed, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is!
1Jn 3:3 And every one having this hope [or, confident expectation] in Him, purifies himself, just as that One is pure.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I think people have to be born again and saved, having a working relationship with Jesus Christ as well as know and follow His Word He has provided in the Scriptures, and counsel the whole word of God before they are in a position to judge whether others are or not, have or have not.

Jesus said, " You must be born again!" John 3:1-18

You have nothing but humanistic relativity to base your judgment on those who preach the Word in season or out of season. The "love" you speak of is humanistic and is based on being approved of men.

The Word of God says to study to show yourselves approved, a workman OF GOD, who needs not be ashamed, because He rightly divides the Word of Truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Jesus DID NOT sit and eat and minister to the proud and rebellious sinners. Neither are we called to. Jesus ate and ministered to sinners who had pure hearts and ears to hear and receive His message and change their ways. God gives grace to the humble, but He resists the rebellious proud, who are puffed up in their iniquity.

And no, I don't think I own God, but I KNOW He owns me!

You are not the one who commissioned us to duty and you are not the one to call us to retirement.

When Jesus wants me to retire, He will take me home.

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I think people should learn how to LIVE Christianity before trying to preach it. The world would be a far better (and more humble) place.

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That's a heavy judgment.

Maybe they don't read the scripture with the same narrow vision that you do. It's possible there's more room than you think for interpretation.

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Strange...the gay Christians I know CLEARLY follow Christ. Many of them are wonderful examples of selfless love.





Maybe this is at the crux of your own problem. You state very clearly here that you think you OWN God.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Actually, her righteousness in Christ is so transparent that it makes YOU irritable and angry.

It doesn't have to be that way.

I pray God reaches you.

 

[OllieFranz]

God did not make people homosexual. Babies are not even sexually oriented apart from the obvious at birth, so how can you say one is born a homosexual when a baby has no idea of anything?

It's not just us who say that gays are born that way. Jesus Himself said so (Matthew 19:12). It is also medical science which shows that he brains of gay males are as different from those of straiht males as are those of straight females, a difference that is partially explained by exposure to hormones in the womb.

I tell you the truth, God did not make people homosexuals at birth. It is later in life that one "discovers" they are homosexual and then deduces that they were born that way.

This is true to some extent, but not because they suddenly "decided" to be gay; rather it is because before the age of four, most children do not have the experience or language to realize that they are different. Many gays have known that they were not like other boys since that early an age. (Although of course, at that age, the differences they recognize had nothing to do with sex. Those differences would be recognized later.)

That is like arguing that because we sin and have a human nature that God created us this way---to sin. I reject what you say.

I would reject it too, if that were what they are saying. But, while the Bible condemns immoral sexual acts, both gay and straight, it does not condemn sex altogether, either gay or straight. God did create gays. He created them as gays. They, like straights, are responsible for what they do with their sexuality, and should not sin. God's plan for sex is that it be a loving part of a committed covenanted relationship.

Fornication and adultery are deliberate rejections of that plan. The Bible rejects incest because it jeopardizes the stability of the family. Today we have the added reason that incest concentrates the likelihood of propagating genetic weaknesses. These sexual actions are immoral for that reason. But same-sex marriage is not a rejection of God's plan, it is obedience to that plan in the manner for which the gay partners were designed by God to interact.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No matter how "holy" you make it sound, homosexual sex is fornication, and is a sin, and never sanctioned by God because it is outside of lawful marriage.

It is also a sin because God flatly tells us He finds it DETESTABLE.

 

[Catholicon]

No, HE doesn't. The people who edited the Bible find it "detestable".

Besides, let gay people have lawful marriage and then even God would approve (not that he doesn't approve of A LOVING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TWO CONSENTING ADULTS anyway)!

 

[Floatingaxe]

No, HE doesn't. The people who edited the Bible find it "detestable".

Besides, let gay people have lawful marriage and then even God would approve (not that he doesn't approve of A LOVING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TWO CONSENTING ADULTS anyway)!

No one edited the bible to remove God's Word from it. Anyone who believes that will suffer with faith crisis after faith crisis, not having any trust in the authority of God's Word, or in His ability to do as He says He will do...make Himself known to you through the Scriptures.

The operative word in your post is, "let". It is not ours to "let". God is against it, and doesn't recognize those who have fixations on "strange flesh". Two consenting adults means just two people who agree to exercise their particular fetish in common. It bears no virtue whatsoever!

 

[IamRedeemed]

"The people" didn't "edit" it in the way you make it sound. Whether it is called "sodomy", "man lying with man as he would with a woman", "going after strange flesh", "exchanging the natural use of their bodies, and instead lusting after members of the same sex" or if it is called in modern language "homosexuality", it still comes out to mean the same thing.

Lawful marriage in the eyes of man, does not change the fact that it is detestable and abominable in the eyes of God, according to not only the Word of His testimony but historically how He has chosen to judge it and warns how He will judge it in the days ahead.

See, Genesis chapters 18 and 19, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, Jude 1:7

No, HE doesn't. The people who edited the Bible find it "detestable".

Besides, let gay people have lawful marriage and then even God would approve (not that he doesn't approve of A LOVING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TWO CONSENTING ADULTS anyway)!

 

[Ohioprof]

No matter how "holy" you make it sound, homosexual sex is fornication, and is a sin, and never sanctioned by God because it is outside of lawful marriage.

It is also a sin because God flatly tells us He finds it DETESTABLE.

There are many same-sex couples who ARE married, lawfully, and in our churches.

 

[Ohioprof]

"The people" didn't "edit" it in the way you make it sound. Whether it is called "sodomy", "man lying with man as he would with a woman", "going after strange flesh", "exchanging the natural use of their bodies, and instead lusting after members of the same sex" or if it is called in modern language "homosexuality", it still comes out to mean the same thing.

Lawful marriage in the eyes of man, does not change the fact that it is detestable and abominable in the eyes of God, according to not only the Word of His testimony but historically how He has chosen to judge it and warns how He will judge it in the days ahead.

See, Genesis chapters 18 and 19, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, Jude 1:7

That's just your interpretation. And as I have pointed out in another thread, the Bible never says anything against same-sex marriage.

Not that I hold the Bible to be authoritative anyway.

 

[RMDY]

OllieFranz,

I have done a little research using Wikipedia, Webster dictionary, and the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia. What I discovered is that people speculate the an eunuch stands for one who is gay. This is actually not the truth. An eunuch is one who celibate and includes a variety of people.

To use this chapter and verse and throw the gay statement into the ring is to open a box of colors and randomly pick one and call it black. In truth, the color wouldn't be black simply because black is not a color and is a shade, but popular opinion has made black out to be a color. Likewise, I believe it is the same for eunuch, don't you think?

My opinion is that a lot of homosexuals search the scriptures looking for evidence that supports that God made them that way and examples of biblical homosexual figures. David and Jonathan is a relationship homosexuals use to promote homosexuality within the bible, but the truth is, that relationship is misinterpreted by the same people who promote homosexuality.

Do you see my point?

Eunuchs, from what I am reading about them have castrated themselves. "Castration was frequently used in certain cultures of Europe, the Middle East, India, Africa and China, for religious or social reasons."
- Wikipedia.com on Casteration

Emasculate
EM`ASCULATE, v.t. [Low L. emasculo, from e and masculus, a male. See Male.]

Eunuch
EU'NUCH, n. [Gr. a bed, and to keep.] A male of the human species castrated.
1. To castrate; to deprive a male of certain parts which characterize the sex; to geld; to deprive of virility.
- Webster dictionary


The barbarous practice of self-mutilation and the mutilation of others in this way was prevalent throughout the Orient. The religious disabilities under which men thus deformed labored under the Mosaic law had the effect of making the practice abominable to the Jews as a people (Deu_23:1; Lev_22:23-25). The law excluded eunuchs from public worship, partly because self-mutilation was often performed in honor of a heathen god, and partly because a maimed creature of any sort was deemed unfit for the service of Yahweh (Lev_21:16; Lev_22:24). That ban, however, was later removed (Isa_56:4, Isa_56:5). On the other hand, the kings of Israel and Judah followed their royal neighbors in employing eunuchs (1) as guardians of the harem (2Ki_9:32; Jer_41:16), and (2) in military and other official posts (1Sa_8:15 margin; 1Ki_22:9 margin; 2Ki_8:6 margin; 2Ki_23:11 the King James Version margin; 2Ki_24:12, 2Ki_24:13 margin; 2Ki_25:19 margin; 1Ch_28:1 margin; 2Ch_18:8 margin; Jer_29:2; Jer_34:19; Jer_38:7; compare Gen_37:36; Gen_40:2, Gen_40:7; Act_8:27). Josephus informs us that eunuchs were a normal feature of the courts of the Herods (Ant., XV, vii, 4; XVI, viii, 1)
- International Standard Bible Encyclopedia