Hi everyone,
I'm an agnostic, which means I am unsure about the existence of God, but to be honest I think that the existence of God is about as likely as the existence of any other God that people believe in, such as Allah, etc.
I love the concept of people going to Heaven and I really do wish I believed in it, so please convince me.
I think the issue I have is that I'm not one to believe something without proof. I've personally read much of the Bible and I don't see any reason to just take the Bible's stories as fact, seeing as nowadays there are much better explanation for creation of the earth and of man.
What troubles me about religion is that it disagrees with much of modern science. For example, we know Earth was created by the accumulation of star dust from an ancient supernova a billion or so years ago, and that humans evolved from ancient species. We also know the Earth is not a mere thousands of years old, but is in fact MUCH older.
Hi, John. It is a pleasure to know you.
I am starting this not apoligizing, but I promise - cross my heart - I have NEVER in my life written such a lengthy reply to a post. I am usually a 1 or 2 par. reply.
All of it isn't mine, I used Wikipedia some.
Concerning your beliefs on how the Earth formed and when; and the approximate age and origin of humans:
The Big Bang theory has had many dissenters including the British astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle, the Nobel Prize winner Hannes Alfven, and astronomers Geoffrey Burbidge and Halton Arp.In 2004, an "Open Letter to the Scientific Community" disputing the Big Bang theory was signed by 33 leading scientists has been published on the internet and in the science journal New Scientist. The dissent letter has subsequently been signed by hundreds of individuals around the world.
The sun is powered by nuclear reactions which gradually burn up the sun's fuel and shrinks its core. As this occurs, the nuclear fusion should occur more readily and expel even more amounts of energy, causing the sun to shine brighter even as it ages. This also means that the sun was much dimmer in the past, but on a timescale of 3.8 billion years (the time when evolutionists believe life began on earth) the sun should have been 25% fainter back then. If this were the case, the earth would be frozen around 3ºC; also, the majority of paleontologists believe that the earth was warmer, not cooler, in the past.
Interplanetary dust is abundant in the solar system. The solar wind, solar gravitation and the Poynting-Robertson effect remove dust from the solar system, while comets and asteroids can contribute to the dust. Robertson and Slusher issued an argument in a 100-page monograph confirming that equations derived nearly fifty years earlier were essentially correct and the solar system was limited to a few thousand years without some hitherto unknown massive replacement method. At least half of this conclusion is supported by secular scientists who hold that the lifespan for a typical dust particle is about 10,000 years.
Paleontologists have so far failed to identify the transitional forms that the theory of evolution requires. There are over one hundred million identified and catalogued fossils currently in the world's museums. If the theory of evolution is true, then there should be transitional forms or missing links in the fossil record that show the intermediate life forms. William R. Corliss catalogued numerous anomalies in the old earth uniformitarian geology paradigm.
The population of the world, based upon the Berlin census reports of 1922, was found to be 1,804,187,000. The human race must double itself 30.75 times to make this number. This result may be approximately ascertained by the following computations:
At the beginning of the first period of doubling there would just be two human beings; the second, 4; the third, 8; the fourth, 16; the tenth, 1024; the twentieth 1,048,576, the thirtieth, 1,073,741,824; and the thirty-first, 2,147,483,648. In other words, if we raise two to the thirtieth power, we have 1,073,741,824; or to the thirty-first power, 2,147,483,648 Therefore, it is evident that, to have the present population of the globe, the net population must be doubled more than thirty times and less than thirty-one times. By logarithms, we find it to be 30.75 times. After all allowances for natural deaths, wars, catastrophes, and losses of all kinds, if the human race would double its numbers
30.75 times, we would have the present population of the globe.
Now, according to the chronology of Hales, based on the Septuagint text, 5077 years have elapsed since the flood, and 5177 years since the ancestors of humanity numbered only two, Noah and his wife. By dividing 5177 by 30.75, we find it requires an average of 168.3 years for the human race to double its numbers, in order to make the present population. This is a reasonable average length of time.
Moreover, it is singularly confirmed by the number of Jacobs descendants. According to Hales, 3850 years have passed since the marriage of Jacob. By the same method of calculation as above corroborates the age of the human race and of the Jewish people, as gleaned from the word of God by the most proficient chronologists. If the human race is 2,000,000 years old, the period of doubling would be 65,040 years,
In addition, the 25,000,000 descendants of Abraham must have doubled their numbers every 162.275 years, during the 3,988 years since the birth of his son Ishmael. The correspondence of these figures, 168.3, 161.251 and 162.275 is so remarkable that it must bring the conviction to every serious student that the flood destroyed mankind and Noah became the head of the race.
Now the evolutionists claim that the human race is 2,000,000 years old. Let us generously suppose that these remote ancestors, beginning with one pair, doubled their numbers in 1612.51 years one-tenth as fast as Abrahams seed. That would equate to1240 times in 2,000,000 years. If we raise 2 to the 1240th power, the result is 18,932,139,737,991 with 360 figures following. The population of the world, therefore, would have been 18,932,139,737,991 decillion, decillion, decillion. decillion, decillion, decillion, decillion, decillion, decillion, decillion; or 18,932,139,737,991 vigintillion, vigintillion, vigintillion, vigintillion, vigintillion, vigintillion.
What also concerns me is that there seem to be two versions of the Christian God. That from the Old Testament, and that of the New Testament. One is a vengeful and violent God while the other is loving. It seems to me that most people follow the New Testament nowadays but which do we believe?
Concerning the OT God and a common misconception that He is vengeful and violent:
I thought I would provide quite a bit of secular historical data.
The following is a partial list of false gods that were worshiped by various nations from 2250 1300 BC. The names of the idols correspond with idols in the OT. The secular articles on the history also corresponds with OT scripture, as does the description of the forms of worship to particular false gods. In addition, this information helps a great deal in understanding why God used warfare so often in the OT.
This info is supposedly recorded in the Phoenician Pantheon and the Ras Sharma Tablets . Not all of the dates are exact, but approximate. Ancient Phoenician an Canaanite secular gods - BC
Year BC Name of false gods
2250 Aether, Philo, Byblius
2200 Mot
2175 Sun (Beelsamen), Moon, Stars,
2150 Colpius Baau
2125 Aeon, Protogonus
2100 Genos, Genea
2075 Cassius, Libanus, Brathy,
2025 Memrumus, Hypsuranius, Ousous
1975 Agreus, Halieus
1925 Chrysor, Hephaestus Zeus
1900 Technites (Artificer), Geinos
1875 Agros, Agrueros
1850 Aletae, Titans
1825 Amynos, Magus
1800 Misor, Suduc
1775 Taautus, Dioscuri
1758 Elioun and Beruth
1740 Epiqeius/Baal-Shamen and Gia
1733 Uranus and Ge
1715 Elus or Kronos, Baetylus, Dagon
1710 1300 There are 34 more names.
Phoenician/Canaanite --- More than 81
Babylonian --- More than 39
Egyptian --- More than 36
Greek --- More than 37
Levantine --- More than 20
Mesopotamian --- More than 24
Total --- More than 237
These were taken from only two documents.
Many of the idols in OT were worshiped with the sacrificing of children. I thought only one was worshipped that way.
Baal was so popular and fast-growing it had hundreds of prophets and priests, and the people eventually began to call God the cheif Baal and sacrificed children to Him in the name of Baal.
Topeth was worshipped also with child sacrifice. The figure was huge and a fire was kept inside its belly. Children and infants were placed on the coal-hot arms of the figure, and the arms would shift so that the child rolled into the statue. Parents did this to their own children. The worshippers indulged in sexual acts while listening to the screams. Topeth was located at the Valley of Ben Hinnon but is also referred to as the Valley of Children.
Moloch was another idol worshipped by the sacrificial burning of children; as was Kronos, Chemosh (Moabite), Mot, and Milcam (Ammonite).
I think any decent person would be willing to kill person throwing a child into a fire. God saw all of it, and I guess there was a series of years when He just cleaned house and got rid of the depravity.
Here is one of my favorite scriptures from the OT:
Psalm 91 (New Living Translation)
1. Those who live in the shelter of the Most High
will find rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
2 This I declare about the LORD:
He alone is my refuge, my place of safety;
he is my God, and I trust him.
3 For he will rescue you from every trap
and protect you from deadly disease.
4 He will cover you with his feathers.
He will shelter you with his wings.
His faithful promises are your armor and protection.
5 Do not be afraid of the terrors of the night,
nor the arrow that flies in the day.
6 Do not dread the disease that stalks in darkness,
nor the disaster that strikes at midday.
7 Though a thousand fall at your side,
though ten thousand are dying around you,
these evils will not touch you.
8 Just open your eyes,
and see how the wicked are punished.
9 If you make the LORD your refuge,
if you make the Most High your shelter,
10 no evil will conquer you;
no plague will come near your home.
11 For he will order his angels
to protect you wherever you go.
12 They will hold you up with their hands
so you wont even hurt your foot on a stone.
13 You will trample upon lions and cobras;
you will crush fierce lions and serpents under your feet!
14 The LORD says, I will rescue those who love me.
I will protect those who trust in my name.
15 When they call on me, I will answer;
I will be with them in trouble.
I will rescue and honor them.
16 I will reward them with a long life
and give them my salvation.
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Why Christians follow NT
The OT contains the Law of Moses which is what man obeyed in the OT. There was punishment for breaking the laws. Once every year, the people brought animals to be sacrificed at the Temple. God used the blood of the animals as a means of atonement for sin for another year. This happened every year until Christ died on the cross. He was the ultimate sacrifice for all mankind, and it was done once for all time. Now we are free from the penalties and punishments of the law because we do not need it to be righteous. He abides within us now. We have been cleansed and given new life in him. It is supernatural.
The loftiest position I could ever hope to attain is to be 1/1000 the example Christ was when he walked the earth as a man.
All these questions scare me away from religion but I'd love to see them answered so I can believe. If I believed, I would feel much better about life in general.
Help convince me!
