Hell

[Alexandra Chris TD]

Hey everyone!

I wanted to have your opinion on hell.
I understand that only those who believe in Christ can go to heaven.
But what about those who don't? Are all unbelivers bound to go to hell?
How could God with all His fairness and power allow let's say your nice and innocent unbeliever neighbor to be in hell for eternity with let's say a serial killer? (I'm taking extreme examples to show the gap that can exist between people)
Don't you think that there's also something else than hell for those who aren't believers but who aren't much of sinners. (And let me remind you here that we're all sinners...)

Thanks ahead for your help!

 

[Alexandra Chris TD]

I've been a Christian my entire adult life and I can easily address some of your questions.

Hell does not actually exist. It is merely a word meant to scare the neophyte Christians into adhering to the rules of Christianity. Unbelievers do not go to hell. After they die, their bodies are either cremated or placed in a grave. If you are talking about the soul, that doesn't have any physical properties, so it really doesn't exist in such a capacity that it can go anywhere.

The good non-believers and the bad non-believers (or believers) are not all tossed into the same place where they will have to coexist. Who taught you this?

Thank you! So what do you think (and I insist on think as in "what's your theory?") is gonna happen to your soul when you die? Or when an unbeliever dies?
And what about everything written in the Bible about eternal punishment and all that?
I'm a seeker so I'm sort of doing my own religious education right now. I read a lot of books and articles: the Bible and things about the Bible written by Christians and unbelievers. And I wasn't actually stating that "good non-believers" and "bad non-believers" go to the same place, I was asking what people think about this!

 

[Nails74]

I wanted to have your opinion on hell.

Let me start by saying that if we are discussing truth, my opinion does not matter. Because my standard of truth is found in the Bible, I will use that as my authority. I hope that makes sense.

Are all unbelivers bound to go to hell?

It is not our unbelief that send us to Hell...we actually all deserve Hell for our sins against God. I can expound on this point more if necessary.

How could God with all His fairness and power allow let's say your nice and innocent unbeliever neighbor to be in hell for eternity with let's say a serial killer? (I'm taking extreme examples to show the gap that can exist between people)

I think you misunderstand "fair". God deals in terms of justice. Think of a courtroom. Can a just judge let a guilty criminal just walk out of the courtroom??

Don't you think that there's also something else than hell for those who aren't believers but who aren't much of sinners. (And let me remind you here that we're all sinners...)

Once again, this is not what the Bible says. I do not know what that "something else" would be.

 

[Nails74]

I've been a Christian my entire adult life and I can easily address some of your questions.
Hell does not actually exist.

Can you cite your source for this?

 

[Alexandra Chris TD]

Because my standard of truth is found in the Bible, I will use that as my authority. I hope that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense to me.

It is not our unbelief that send us to Hell...we actually all deserve Hell for our sins against God. I can expound on this point more if necessary.

I think I understand what you mean but just to make sure, yes, I would love to hear more about this point!
And you're not really answer my question here. Ok we all deserve hell for our sins but I'm sure you'll agree when I say Christians won't go to hell. They will go to heaven, that's what the Bible says. So what about unbelievers?

I think you misunderstand "fair". God deals in terms of justice. Think of a courtroom. Can a just judge let a guilty criminal just walk out of the courtroom??

I actually think I meant it just that way.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Alexandra, the Christian doctrine of hell comes from the Bible. So why not read what the Bible says instead of getting a bunch of random information from people on this site? I mean, how will you know anything that is said is true if you don't do the background research yourself?

 

[Alexandra Chris TD]

Alexandra, the Christian doctrine of hell comes from the Bible. So why not read what the Bible says instead of getting a bunch of random information from people on this site? I mean, how will you know anything that is said is true if you don't do the background research yourself?

Well my problem is that I don't find the Bible very clear about this topic.
And isn't it the whole purpose of this section of the forum? Asking your questions?
The fact that you clearly don't bring any answer to my questions makes me wonder if you are even sure of your beliefs about hell. No offense.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Well my problem is that I don't find the Bible very clear about this topic.
And isn't it the whole purpose of this section of the forum? Asking your questions?
The fact that you clearly don't bring any answer to my questions makes me wonder if you are even sure of your beliefs about hell. No offense.

Actually I am quite certain I understand the Biblical doctrine of hell because I have studied it thoroughly. You are correct when you state "I don't find the Bible very clear about the topic". This is the exact reason I suggested you study for yourself. Answers you get here will be greatly simplified (and wrong) because most Christians do not take the time to study the subject for themselves, they just regurgitate the same standard answer that they were given without ever cracking their Bible to see if it is true.

Here's a good source if you would like to study this yourself:

Truth According to Scripture - Defending the Christian Faith

 

[Nails74]

Ok we all deserve hell for our sins but I'm sure you'll agree when I say Christians won't go to hell. They will go to heaven, that's what the Bible says. So what about unbelievers?

Just to make sure we are on the same page...let's back up a bit first.

So, after we die, we are judged...

And just as it is appointed for people to die once —and after this, judgment — [Hebrews 9:27]

for every deed...

For God will bring every act to judgment, including every hidden thing, whether good or evil. [Ecclesiastes 12:14]

and our record is not exactly spotless...

as it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. [Romans 3:10]

So how will you do before God on judgement day?

 

[GrayAngel]

Revelation 20:11-15 - Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Faith or lack of faith determines which direction one heads, but both the saved and the unsaved will be judged based on what they had done. God shows mercy in picking some of us to be saved from damnation. He's also just, and people who committed greater sins will receive more punishment.

There are some specific verses I can pull up which suggest that those who have never heard the Gospel (and therefore couldn't reject it) would have it the easiest in Hell. But people who actively reject the Gospel, and who lead others to do the same, will be treated more harshly.

It's understood that the judgement the saved will face will not be to condemn us but to determine the extent of our reward. The people who served God most obediently (the least on the earth) will be made the greatest in Heaven.

What I am not sure about is if Hell is really eternal or if souls will eventually disappear. There are some verses which suggest that Hell lasts forever, but I've heard arguments to the contrary.


EDIT: By the way, "bad" believers will be given the same--if not worse--treatment as unbelievers. Scripture tells us of a day when God will separate the sheep from the goats, or the real from the fake.

Matthew 25:31-46 - “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Faulty]

Jesus spoke more on the reality of Hell than anyone else in the scriptures.

Concerning this, He told us that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father, but through Him. In 1 John, we are instructed that whoever has the Son also has the Father, but whoever does not have the Son, doesn't have the Father either. This excludes all other 'paths' to Heaven. As far as severity of punishment, Jesus put it this way,

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:35-36
​

and also

"And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.
But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more."
Luke 12:47-48
​

Those who know more of what is expected will receive a greater punishment than those who did not know. For example, there are a great many people who go to church week after week, hearing the gospel, or coming to forums and websites where the gospel is taught, and they read of their need to repent, over and over, and reject it time after time. Their judgment will be extremely severe as opposed to others who did not have the same revelation given to them time after time.

It's a very dangerous thing for those who only seek to confront christians, with the intent to harass, and are met with scripture in return. They will be held accountable for every instance they reject the truth given to them.

Paul describes it as such when speaking of those who reject God's kindness by not repenting, and are thereby stradily storing up wrath against them, and they will not be given eternal life, but rather the wrath and fury of God...

Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.​

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Romans 2:4-8

​

 

[Jamesja]

"What is that to thee follow thou me." We too often concern ourselves with others and their place in God's plan instead of carefully doing God's will in our own lives.

Look up, follow the star, and it will lead you to Christ. In the end it will lead you to heaven.

 

[AvgJoe]

Hey everyone!

I wanted to have your opinion on hell.
I understand that only those who believe in Christ can go to heaven.

Correct.

But what about those who don't? Are all unbelivers bound to go to hell?

Yes, all unbelievers will go to hell.

How could God with all His fairness and power allow let's say your nice and innocent
unbeliever neighbor to be in hell for eternity with let's say a serial killer? (I'm taking
extreme examples to show the gap that can exist between people)
Don't you think that there's also something else than hell for those who aren't believers
but who aren't much of sinners. (And let me remind you here that we're all sinners...)

Thanks ahead for your help!

First, let's address the 'innocent'. As you correctly noted above, everyone is a sinner. That means no one is innocent. Some are worse than others, but no one is innocent. Here is what the Bible has to say about the human condition:

"There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one." (Romans 3:10-12)
​

We don't like to think that good people deserve to go to hell. But as is said above, no one is good. That is talking about everyone, not just the really bad people.

This is why we need Jesus. Where we are guilty sinners, He is sinless innocence because He never sinned. When we repent and believe the gospel, thus becoming a Christian, Jesus takes all of our sins (past, present & future), that He paid for on the cross, and gives us His sinless innocence (righteousness), that is the pardon for all of the sins we committed. Only then, are you a good person in the eyes of God.

Secondly, will there be something other than hell for unbelievers who aren't so bad? No, all unbelievers go to hell. The Bible does not offer any alternative locations.

The Bible does show that hell will be a place of fair treatment. Before anyone goes there, he will stand at a final judgement to determine the exact degree of punishment he will receive. God will be perfectly fair.

In hell, there are different degrees of punishment. Romans 2:1-16 says that God will look at what people have done with their privileges & opportunities and that He will be completely impartial and fair (vv. 5-11). Those who possessed His Word, the law of verses 12-14, will be held accountable for their response to it. While those who never received special revelation, will be held accountable only for what they knew (vv. 14-16).

Jesus taught this same principal when He said that the servant who knew his master's will, and disobeyed, would be beaten with 'many stripes', but that the servant who had less knowledge would be beaten with 'few' (Luke 12:47-48). Although all unbelievers go to the same place they don't all receive the same punishment.

 

[razeontherock]

Well my problem is that I don't find the Bible very clear about this topic.
And isn't it the whole purpose of this section of the forum?

I agree with you. Here's a resource that brings up some info, but let me add that the phrase "believing on Jesus" is not necessarily as simple as modern churchianity makes it out to be.

What Did the Early Christians Believe About Hell?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Yes, hell is real. Throughout Scripture, hell is taught to be a reality and eternal punishment and torture for the unsaved. Jesus Himself said us not to fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:4-5). The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10). Jude 1:22-23 emphatically states, "Be merciful to those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh" (emphasis added). These are but a few examples of the reality of hell written in Scripture. There are more scriptural references on the reality of hell.

 

[elman]

Yes, hell is real. Throughout Scripture, hell is taught to be a reality and eternal punishment and torture for the unsaved. Jesus Himself said us not to fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:4-5). The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10). Jude 1:22-23 emphatically states, "Be merciful to those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh" (emphasis added). These are but a few examples of the reality of hell written in Scripture. There are more scriptural references on the reality of hell.

Destroy is like death. It is not about remaining alive forever being tortured. Yes death is real. It, not life in pain, is the consequences of sin.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Destroy is like death. It is not about remaining alive forever being tortured. Yes death is real. It, not life in pain, is the consequences of sin.

In the King James Bible, the term "hell" is used 54 times; 31 times in the Old Testament, and 23 times in the New Testament.

Here are a couple of scriptural references:

Daniel 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

For example, the words of Jesus concerning the reality of hell being eternal and punishment:

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

"Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"(Matthew25:41)

"The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”(Matthew 13:41-42)

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.'" (Mark 9:43-48)

Jesus even asked the Pharisees how they would escape the condemnation of hell.

"Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?" (Matthew 23:33)

Romans 1:18-20 "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

The One True God of the Bible, Who is infinitely holy, righteous and just, does allow hell to exist and He does condemn the unsaved, unrepentant sinners to hell, which will be eternal punishment and torment. Do you know what happens to the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars? If not, than you need to read Revelation 21:8 to find out. Did you know that God's anger burns against the wicked and disobedient (Isaiah 5:25; Hosea 8:5; Zechariah 10:3)? Did you know that God hates all manners of sin (Proverbs 6:16-19), and that His wrath rests on all those who are unrepentant (Romans 1:18)? Were you aware that God will punish those who do not know Him and who do not obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9) and punishment (Matthew 25:46)? God does not change (Malachi 3:6) nor does He lie (Numbers 23:19). Scripture is very clear that unbelievers are storing up wrath against themselves (Romans 2:5) and God will "give to each person according to what he has done" (Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; 20:12; 22:12). And Scripture is also very clear that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31). God's Word is infallible, inerrant, uncompromising, unchanging truth (2 Timothy 3:16-17). The entirety of His word is truth (Psalms 119:160) and His Word stands forever (Psalm 119:89; Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:25).

 

[Nails74]

Would you like my source that hell doesn't exist? Well, I take it on faith that there is no place with a fiery pit as hell is often described.

So then, your source is yourself. What about what God's word says?

I don't know anything for sure. But I'm 99.99% confident that there is no place in our physical world that is hell. Hell is merely a figure of speech used to describe a real place that isn't to our liking.

“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” [Matthew 25:46]

Sounds a bit worse than "a real place that isn't to our liking".

So if something can be real merely because it is used as a figure of speech, then yes, I believe hell exists.

I'm not sure I understand the logic in this statement.

 

[razeontherock]

Modern scientific understanding of the mantle of the earth equates perfectly to Biblical description of hell. Jus' sayin

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Would you like my source that hell doesn't exist? Well, I take it on faith that there is no place with a fiery pit as hell is often described. I don't know anything for sure. But I'm 99.99% confident that there is no place in our physical world that is hell. Hell is merely a figure of speech used to describe a real place that isn't to our liking.

So if something can be real merely because it is used as a figure of speech, then yes, I believe hell exists.

I would say that you have placed your faith in yourself, rather than in God. You simply cannot rely on your "feelings," because your feelings are wrong. The reality of hell is not only written in the Scriptures, extensively in fact, but it was also taught by our Lord and Savior and He described it quite vividly, as well. Have you not read my two previous posts or the posts by the other members with all the Scriptures on the reality of hell? Do you not believe what God had written in the Scriptures about hell? God does not change (Numbers 23:19) nor does He lie (Malachi 3:6). His Word is eternal and stands forever (Psalm 119:89; Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:25).