I'm reposting
@ToBeLoved's (excellent)
question since there were 159 posts in between it and the
original comment I made.
Has God forgiven a person their sins before they are saved?
Simple answer....No.
A bit more info:
We might ask - from what are we saved? And even another question - from Whom are we saved? First of all, we are saved from the righteous judgment of God. God is loving, kind, and gracious, and He does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked (
Ezekiel 18:23). But, He does judge, because He is the righteous and holy Judge, and He must punish the sinner. He cannot let rebellion against His Holy Law go unpunished. If He did, then how could He be just? Therefore, God's righteous judgment is upon all who break the Law: all who are sinners. To be saved, is to be saved from the righteous judgment of God. It means to be saved from the damning work of condemnation, that God will impose upon all who have not found forgiveness in Christ.
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
1. What is different between these two kinds of belief?
In John 3:16, the word believes in Greek is Pisteuo - Meaning to comply with, or to have faith (pistis) in.
Lexicographer J.H. Thayer noted that belief is “used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i.e. a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God,
conjoined with obedience to Christ” (
Greek-English Lexicon, T. & T. Clark, 1958, p. 511; emp. added).
James 2:19..is a bit more difficult, you can't really compare the faith of a human and a demon. Because Humans are redeemable thru have faith in Christ for their salvation. Demons cannot...they are irredeemable. Many scholars believe that the belief spoken of here is called "Dead Faith" and many just say it's that the demons know who God is and are smart enough to be afraid of Him. But for sure...it isn't the same as the belief in John 3:16.
2. What is the event (or events) that are required for a human to be saved? (A change of heart would be an event.)
First you must know that you are a sinner. Have you kept the commandments? Have you lied? If so then you are a liar And the punishment is the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 But to the cowards, unbelievers, detestable persons, murderers, the sexually immoral, and those who practice magic spells,
16 idol worshipers,
17 and all those who lie, their place
18 will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur.
Jesus said the following:
Matt 5:27-28
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘
Do not commit adultery.’
38 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
God sees all things and even knows our intentions. Many of us are guilty of this, and many have broke this law.
These are just two of the commandments and if you have broken one...you've broke them all. And therefore a sinner and it's the sin that sends us to Hell.
We must realize this, that we have sinned against God and only Against Him.
Read Psalms 51. You will see what God expects of us. To pray for repentance, then place our Trust in Christ to change our hearts, desires and to renew our minds.
3. Do the event(s) affect our legal standing with God or his heart for us (or both)?
The final words of Christ on the Cross were "It is finished". This was not a legal thing. This was a purchasing. When shop dealers and buyers would haggle over goods and they came to a final price to buy or sell. They would say "It is Finished" that meant..no more haggling no more deals. I have come to my final price to pay.
Christ paid the price for you and me.
It's likened to a man who was arrested for a crime. And He stands before the judge and is fined a huge amount for his crime. He doesn't have the money, he has no way to pay this price to get out of jail and tells the judge this, hoping for sympathy. To bad Judge, puts him away. Then the next morning, the jailer comes to his cell and tells him he is free to go.
the man ask, "what ya mean I'm free?" the jailer looks at him and says "Don't know, just know that someone came by and pay the fine for you and all you owed to others for the crime, charges were dropped and now your free."
Even the man is confused...because he knows He doesn't deserve this kindness..because He knows how guilty he is. But He goes His way, knowing that He has to do the right thing because someone paid the price for him.
Christ paid the fine for our sins. He carried our sins to the cross and cleansed them with His blood and carried them away with His death. Once you repent and put your trust in Him. Your sins are forgiven..not just the ones you've done lately...but ALL of them..to the first lie til now. He gives us mercy everyday. Something we don't deserve.
If all men got their just deserves from God...all men would be in Hell.
4. What is it exactly that happens (at the point one accepts God's unmerited gift of salvation) that makes a person change from unsaved to saved?
Answered. but will add this. No one knows how or where God is going to use those who repent and place their trust in Christ. There a thousands of stories of men and women who have done so and have seen miraculous changes overnight in their lives. But for everyone that believes he has a gift for them and with reading God's Word and prayer. Going to a good bible believing church and staying on that path with God that not many take. He will open the doors for you to find out just exactly what you will do.
5. Would it be true for a Christian to tell a non-Christian that his or her sins have been forgiven?
No. We are not God. We can forgive people for things done against us or others. But we cannot forgive sins....We didn't pay the price for that. Christ did.