Harry Potter nonsense

[Live4HimAndLoveOthers]

Also of note:
I just now went to the J.K. Rowling Official Site, www.jkrowling.com , and noticed that it gives "Spell Definitions," defining the differences between Spells, Charms, Hexes and Curses. Of course, I guess that is not surprising, since it mentions those in the books and the movies. What's my point? I don't know. I was just checking the website to see if I could find what they claimed on that TV show, namely, anywhere that it teaches how to do spells. There is a "W.O.M.B.A.T." section that you need a passcode to get into, so I don't know what is in that section. Oh, well, I was just curious. Sorry to post so many replies.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Also of note:
I just now went to the J.K. Rowling Official Site, www.jkrowling.com , and noticed that it gives "Spell Definitions," defining the differences between Spells, Charms, Hexes and Curses.

Did you actually go to that page? It clearly says

Within the Potter world, the boundaries are flexible, and I imagine that wizards may have their own ideas. Hermione-ish, however, I've always had a working theory:

She's obviously speaking to the context of her own books.

For pete's sake...Rowling has a classical education, which means she's well read in Classic Literature (in addition to English, that would be Latin, Greek and probably Norse) and draws from quite a few of these traditions. There is hardly anything insidious about any of this. Stop reading more into it than there is and looking for demons under every rock.

Let me ask you the same thing I've asked others...if you object to JK Rowling's Harry Potter series, do you also object to The Wizard of Oz? The Lord of the Rings? Tales of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table (as these stories would also include Merlin)? Any of the Greek, Roman, and Norse myths? Star Wars? If any of these things are acceptable to you while Harry Potter is not...then you are using an unflattering double standard.

 

[Live4HimAndLoveOthers]

OK, I'll put in one more post, and then go to bed.

I found a number of websites addressing the 'Harry Potter debate,' which feature various points from both sides of the issue, though most of them are negative. Please understand that I'm not totally 100% on one side of the issue or the other; I'm still exploring the issue. But I wanted to list these sites here in case anyone wants to check them out:

http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Harry&Witchcraft.htm

http://directory.google.com/Top/Art...ng,_J._K./Harry_Potter_Series/Opposing_Views/

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/p03.html

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56392

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/292/

http://childrensbooks.suite101.com/article.cfm/harry_potter_and_religion

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24080

 

[sister_maynard]

First source: the main objection seems to be that kids have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality when they're young. You could say the same thing about little kids who go rooting around in the back of every wardrobe they see because they want to get to Narnia. They're not being seduced into the grasp of evil, they're young and naive. There's also the usual babbling about how the Potterverse is lacking in moral background, but there's always the undercurrent that friends need to protect each other and work for good in the world despite personal sacrifices.
Second source: a list of websites- there are quite a lot, and I'm not reading all of them. I once spent an hour and half debunking every footnote in an anti-HP article, but digging through all those is a bit excessive. Pick the best ones.
Third source: apparently broken.
Fourth source: I would dearly love to see this twit's actual sources for Harry Potter's references to evolution and reincarnation. The other things he lists are (surprise) synonyms for magic. Unsurprisingly, he's picked the ones that sound scary. The article makes the point that HP books are often sold in the same area as Wiccan books. What of it? That's marketing. The Da Vinci Code was sold alongside things like Holy Blood, Holy Grail and Christian objections to the book. Bookstores want to make money, so they sell books in loosely related clusters.
"In 'Harry Potter,' young Harry lies a lot, break rules at school, curses, throws temper tantrums, and even drinks 'firewhisky' (he's an underage drinker)." "
Lies? Yes, he does. He breaks rules for a number of reasons, both selfish and for the good of others. Curses? Every so often, yes. Throws temper tantrums? Generally because he's traumatized after seeing a friend die or is worried that Voldemort is about to start killing those he cares about. I believe the drinking only occurs once.
I'm not excusing his behavior, but most of the things that he does that are wrong are the things that we all do every day or he genuinely believes that he's helping others. He's human, not a cardboard cutout who exists exclusively to toss out some easy moral homilies.
The reader never meets these famous occultists, and nearly all of the "real occultism" is portrayed as a tricky fraud not worthy of anyone's time.
Frankly, this article is nothing new- it points out that Harry isn't perfect, mutters about Satan a bit without giving actual references, and claims that HP advances Wicca. In truth, seeing that the most impressive and easy magic in the series (wand-waving) doesn't actually work, would likely push many people away from Wicca as an easy substitute for HP.
Fifth source: a duplicate of the first one with the exception of font and color.
Sixth source: does a decent job of talking about why people feel as they do, but it's fairly short and there's not really much with which to argue.
Seventh source: yes, HP has graphic evil at times. That's why parents should use discetion about when their children should read the books. I approve of JK's idea that evil is dangerous and foul- paper cutouts are boring. The Flamels' death isn't what many would interpret as suicide: they've lived their lives for hundreds of years and they're choosing to relinquish false immortality for a better cause. Most of the people in this article are reading what they want into the books: Trelawney recieves her prophecies from an indeterminate source, not a demon. Anyone asserting that a demon is involved is firmly holding the burden of proof. Monk, at least, knows what he's saying. Good for him.
Of course Cedric's death is murder, and it has nothing to do with the following ritual. Yes, the ritual is foul- the vampire analogy is hardly accidental. You can read the Jesus and Adam bits into it if you like, but that's an act of will on the part of the reader.
One of the other articles, by the way, is just a shortened version of the last one.

If you're still trying to decide, I'd really recommend finding something better than these. No offense, but their arguments are terribly weak and rely mostly on "what I see is there because I say so, it's all evil, and no one should read it."

(By the way, Chick tracts are utter rubbish in nearly every way. The simple "accept Jesus and go to heaven" ones are occasionally decent, but every time the idiot tries to talk about the occult he provides everyone with a good laugh.)

 

[Starcrystal]

OK, I have a confession.

I read a newspaper article, which interviewed a real-life witch, in which she said that real-life witches strongly support the Harry Potter series (I think it was because the book series gives such a positive spin on witchcraft; on the other hand, I also saw an interview with a real-life warlock, where he said that the Church of Satan is not actively looking for recruits...I think this was to counter the notion that the HP series has a secret agenda of recruiting children to witchcraft). (Ah, but does that mean that Satan does not have such an agenda??)

.

Witches (as in Wiccans) and "Satanists" (Church of Satan) are completely different things. In fact many of them don't even like each other. And the Satanic Bible doesn't have very nice things to say about any "spiritual" path including witches....

 

[soblessed53]

Billy Graham’s World Magazine opines that Harry Potter's world is "a delight... safe, inoffensive, and non-occult." "The real world of witchcraft is not Harry Potter's world." http://www.atlantaapologist.org/harrypotter.html

also a very intelligent article by a Presbyterian Pastor for "Salt Shaker"- http://.irvinepres.org/home/news/?p=staff/harrypotter

 

[Cassie76]

Harry Potter books are FICTION!!!!!!!!!
Stop being so judgemental against people who choose to read the HP books.

 

[Cassie76]

I really think there are worse things going on

 

[sister_maynard]

Does anyone want to come defend the sources upon which I commented or propose new ones? This sort of died.

 

[_Zap_]

In a made up fantasy world with completely different natural rules from a current world you have to consider something: some of God's law might be different (or more specific).

To judge the Harry Potter books you really need to figure out why sorcery is a sin in the first place.

I can think of three types of people that would be covered by the biblical ban:

There are people who pretend they can do magic in order to cheat people. Like those telephone psychics. They're con artists. That's pretty self explanatory.

There are people who try to do magic, but can't really.
These people think they can do magic, try to do magic, but don't actually do anything other than positive thinking. (kinda like a placebo). They would be worshiping a false god which is, again, a sin.

Then there are people who actually CAN do magic. This magic comes from a spiritual being, which means there are two sources: it could come from God (which we call a miracle instead of magic) or it could come from consorting with demons. God granting you power is clearly not evil, whereas getting it from demons clearly is. So, in our world, if you are practicing some sort of magic (that isn't something God did) then you must be committing a sin. This is why we don't consider stage magicians to be sinful. We might call what they do "magic" but nothing they do is sinful. We know it's just entertainment so they aren't scammers, they don't worship pagan gods in weird rituals, and they don't get genuine power from demons (as far as we know anyway ).

Now, consider fantasy world such as Harry Potter. These rules may no longer apply. Instead, there is another source for genuine "magic": natural ability. Look at the Harry Potter books, magic is genetic. It is a natural ability. A Harry Potter character using magic is no more evil then a squid shooting a cloud of ink, they are just using their natural, god given, ability. You could misuse it of course (as the evil wizards do) or you could use it for good, but the ability itself could not be considered evil.

All the problems Christians have with Harry Potter really just boil down to what stuff in the book is named in the English language, not the actual content.

Now, I understand why parents might not want their children reading the books. A child could read the book, decide he wants to do magic, and ignorantly associate it with Wicca. Plenty of adults are absurdly associating Harry Potter with real sorcery when the two are nothing alike, so I can see how a child does it. If you don't want to explain the difference to your child, or don't want to take the risk, I can understand why you'd want to avoid them.

I do, however, take some offense to the Christians who go on with the insane book burnings, and the ones who think J.K. Rowling is working for the devil, and the ones who mindlessly insist that an adult is committing some sort of atrocious sin for reading the book. Aside from being annoying, it manages to give the impression that all Christians are insane.

 

[ActingDude17]

As already stated, the sorcery in the Bible is not modern sorcery. For those of you who aren't good with time, here's a little fact. It keeps going. Things change. There's also a thread somewhere around here about the translation of the word that got translated to sorcery. Just found it. Here it is. It'll raise some eyebrows.

Is there ANY mention whatsoever of communicating with the Devil/demons in the Harry Potter books (which, if you see the above thread, may not even be close to the Biblical definition of sorcery)? Of course not. The characters use their ablities to help others and stop those who try to hurt and kill.

As for the claim that kids can't distinquish fantasy from real life, that makes me very sad. If that's where America's youth are today, we really need to start getting worried. I don't think that's where our youth are, though.

Look at it this way (for those of you who haven't been ignorant and have actually read the books to decide for yourself if they're wrong): Harry is symbolic for Jesus, Hermione and Ron for the disciples, Dumbledore for God, Voldemort for Satan, and the Death Eaters for Satan's demons.

Dumbledore gave Harry a task and a journey, to destroy Voldemort. God gave His Son the mission to help Him minister to people, on an Earthly plane. In both cases, Love (or Good) conquers Death/Hate (or Evil). If you've read Harry Potter (specifically the last book), you'll know how Love conquered Death in the books. I don't want to post spoilers. Jesus (or Love, remember, God, or God as Jesus in Earthly form, is Love) conquered Death on the cross (today's Easter, how ironic) by dying for our sins so they we may not perish, but have eternal life and live forever with him the the most glorious paradise.

Rowling herself said she is religious. And if some people weren't so ignorant they would know that.

My main irritance is when people are ignorant and don't even try to see if the books are right or wrong. C'mon, people. That just makes us Christians look bad.

If anybody wants to condemn me to Hell for reading the Harry Potter books, go right ahead. Go. But you know what? Nobody is the condemner, except our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm sure none of you here are that type of condemners, but trust me, some are.

 

[Lessien]

As already stated, the sorcery in the Bible is not modern sorcery. For those of you who aren't good with time, here's a little fact. It keeps going. Things change. There's also a thread somewhere around here about the translation of the word that got translated to sorcery. Just found it. Here it is. It'll raise some eyebrows.

Is there ANY mention whatsoever of communicating with the Devil/demons in the Harry Potter books (which, if you see the above thread, may not even be close to the Biblical definition of sorcery)? Of course not. The characters use their ablities to help others and stop those who try to hurt and kill.

As for the claim that kids can't distinquish fantasy from real life, that makes me very sad. If that's where America's youth are today, we really need to start getting worried. I don't think that's where our youth are, though.

Look at it this way (for those of you who haven't been ignorant and have actually read the books to decide for yourself if they're wrong): Harry is symbolic for Jesus, Hermione and Ron for the disciples, Dumbledore for God, Voldemort for Satan, and the Death Eaters for Satan's demons.

Dumbledore gave Harry a task and a journey, to destroy Voldemort. God gave His Son the mission to help Him minister to people, on an Earthly plane. In both cases, Love (or Good) conquers Death/Hate (or Evil). If you've read Harry Potter (specifically the last book), you'll know how Love conquered Death in the books. I don't want to post spoilers. Jesus (or Love, remember, God, or God as Jesus in Earthly form, is Love) conquered Death on the cross (today's Easter, how ironic) by dying for our sins so they we may not perish, but have eternal life and live forever with him the the most glorious paradise.

Rowling herself said she is religious. And if some people weren't so ignorant they would know that.

My main irritance is when people are ignorant and don't even try to see if the books are right or wrong. C'mon, people. That just makes us Christians look bad.

If anybody wants to condemn me to Hell for reading the Harry Potter books, go right ahead. Go. But you know what? Nobody is the condemner, except our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm sure none of you here are that type of condemners, but trust me, some are.

Your analysis of the religious symbolism in the series was spot-on. That's exactly how I felt after reading the last book: that Christians who don't read the series are cheating themselves out of an edifying and fun read.

You see parallels to the life of Christ everywhere in the Harry Potter books. Of course, he's not a perfect representation of Jesus, like Aslan in the Narnia series, but the parallels are unmistakable.

It really bugs me when Christians call the series evil without ever reading it. My parents do that, and for years I thought it was evil, too. Until, of course, I read them and found out for myself. Seriously, guys, it's like ActingDude17 said: It's making us Christians look bad. When you say "I don't need to taste arsenic to see if it's poison," check first and make sure that what you're condemning really IS arsenic. Because when you call something arsenic and it's really just a bag of potato chips...well, you get my point.

 

[LYP]

I have yet to give much thought to the series, not because what people have said about them but just don't have an interest to read or see the movies *shrugs*

 

[Xaoc]

You know what? Given that so many Christians blindly associate any involving "magic" with evil, it must just be the word. Harry Potter does not contain "magic" as portrayed by the Bible. It's basically the same as the Force. Therefore, I suggest we coin a new word for things such as "magic" in Harry Potter. I suggest "Jasskoekols", as I doubt it's already a real word. If it is, we could always just go with "totallynotmagic".

 

[bellatrix_wannabe_89]

As a huge fan, no, more like fanatic of HP, who grew up with those stories, I have to say a lot of these replies have scared me. For those who have never read it yet judge it, how would you feel if God judged you because of something he heard about you without looking into it? For those who judge it and have read it, well, I'm sorry you feel that way.
The books themselves are not about magic in and of itself, it's about a child who just happens to do magic, and it's more about his journey though life and his turmoils then learning magic. In the 6th book, it's mainly a fluffy romance as opposed to a fantasy or magical story.
Voldemort is supposed to represent all the evil and hate in the world, (more specifically Hitler,) and that narrows down to Satin, am I right? And only Harry, who was sent by Dumbledore to do his bidding (sound familiar?) who had many followers and many doubters (again, sound familiar?) Is the only one who can and did destroy Voldemort. And where all of Harry's friends (his best friends at least) survived, all of Voldemort's followers were cast down by the good side.
Harry Potter is actually a very useful tool when it comes to teaching religion for children. I mean, in all honesty, is a ten year old more likely to read and truly understand the bible? Or Harry Potter? If you still feel uncomfortable, then read it with them, explain that it's all make believe and explain the symbolism. I'm not saying you have to go out an become a true fanatic, [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] (am I allowed to say that here?) I know every little thing about HP fan, but just read it before you judge it, and don't judge those who have read it. Because every time you do, it just makes those non believers turn against you all even more and more resistant to leading a life of god.
Thank you and god bless.

 

[e. barrett]

I really liked Harry Potter. I thought it was a great set of stories, with a vibrant world. I think there are religious themes in the books, but I'm not sure I'd ever call it a Christian allegory.

That said, there are far more "dangerous" stories to a Christian world view. I know there's a thread on these forums that half-jokingly suggested banning Star Trek because of it's humanist viewpoint. Certainly if there was ever a popular show that went to lengths to show us a world without God, it would be Star Trek. And lets face it, humanism is more likely to distract people from God than magic.

Of course I like Star Trek too.

 

[facepalm]

Why would you get angry over something that's complete fiction. Just like the bible.

 

[Mankin]

Lol. Who was it taht said adults can't be trolls.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Repeat after me. It's the 21st century, magic is not real. Elves are not real. The Raiders winning a super bowl in the next decade is not real. Okay...so I embellished the last one. Sue me. But I used to work in a bookstore so maybe there is confusion. See there are different sections in bookstores. Stuff like HP books are in the FICTION section. That's for make believe stuff. Then we have NONFICTION, which is where all the books based on real stuff in the world are put. Nayer the twain shall they meet...and uh..thy..and stuff. Yeah.

If you confuse the two. I suggest therapy. And not the alcoholic kind.

 

[Inkachu]

Repeat after me. It's the 21st century, magic is not real. Elves are not real. The Raiders winning a super bowl in the next decade is not real. Okay...so I embellished the last one. Sue me. But I used to work in a bookstore so maybe there is confusion. See there are different sections in bookstores. Stuff like HP books are in the FICTION section. That's for make believe stuff. Then we have NONFICTION, which is where all the books based on real stuff in the world are put. Nayer the twain shall they meet...and uh..thy..and stuff. Yeah.

If you confuse the two. I suggest therapy. And not the alcoholic kind.

*slaps her knee and laughs*