Greece becomes first Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage

[truthpls]

Greece on Thursday became the first majority Orthodox Christian country to legalize same-sex marriage — a watershed moment for the country’s LGBTQ community, which has long fought for visibility and rights in the shadow of the highly influential Greek church.

The bill also allows same-sex couples to adopt children and confers full parental rights on married partners, though it stops short of permitting gay couples to become parents through surrogacy, a limitation that has drawn criticism from rights groups.

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said on social media that Greece is “proud to become the 16th E.U. country to legislate marriage equality.” He called the step “a milestone for human rights, reflecting today’s Greece — a progressive, and democratic country, passionately committed to European values.”


--

[Basil learns of Kurt's crush on Manuel]
Basil Fawlty : I should never have hired a Frenchman.
Polly : He's Greek, Mr. Fawlty.
Basil Fawlty : Greek?
Polly : Of course.
Basil Fawlty : Well, that's even worse. I mean, they invented it.

Getting back to their old pre Christian ways I see. I think we should use a crowbar to separate ourselves from former ways.

 

[trophy33]

Now take out the WE. Didn't Christians start the warfare?

What "the" warfare?

 

[RileyG]

Didn't we shove our propaganda down their throats, turn or burn? Didn't Christians start the warfare by pointing out a group of people's sins? When we have a multitude of our own. When all we are supposed to do is share the gospel.

You’re right, but the LGBT crowd is the ones that want approval for their lifestyle. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

 

[essentialsaltes]

You’re right, but the LGBT crowd is the ones that want approval for their lifestyle.

At least in context of the OP, what was desired was not 'approval' but legal recognition of the right to marry, adopt, etc.

 

[RileyG]

At least in context of the OP, what was desired was not 'approval' but legal recognition of the right to marry, adopt, etc.

Still think it’s a sad day for Greece.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's not surprising. Greece is a relatively modern country in its attitudes, even among clergy.

It's good they prohibited surrogacy, which is inherently exploitative and commodifies procreation.

 

[linux.poet]

The vast majority of same-sex parents have their children from previous relationships, not from adoption, though.

So now we’re in this territory:

How are they suffering if they are loved?

They don’t get as much regular exposure to someone of the same sex or opposite sex as someone with two opposite gendered parents. The most loving thing a same-sex parent could do would be to divorce their same-sexed spouse and bring an opposite gendered parent into the household. It’s not just speculation anymore. We have testimonials from these parents and their children.

1. Children with the two parents of the same sex as themselves struggle to relate to the opposite gender correctly. I remember watching a video of a girl raised by lesbian parents who was scared of men, for example, and she had to get over that. People in these situations may adopt homosexuality themselves because they view heterosexuality as too difficult or homosexuality as “normal”. If they wish to be heterosexual and follow Christ, they are left with a long and painful journey of learning about the opposite sex and how to relate to them correctly, while at the same time avoiding sexual compromise and getting pulled into abusive relationships (how are they supposed to avoid abusers when they don’t know what normal male or female behavior is like?).

2. Children with two parents of the opposite sex as themselves struggle to know who they are in terms of gender. I read a story in To My Trans Sisters about a biological male who turned trans because he was surrounded by women growing up with no male influence to show him who he was. Thus he assumed he was a girl too.

Admittedly this can have better outcomes, but it requires proactive effort on the part of the parents to expose their child to other same-sex adults. Example:

The other idea of a woman being raised by two dads creeps me out a bit because it’s similar to how I was raised, only much worse. As a woman being raised with my dad and brother, I was left with twice the amount of masculine influence, despite the fact that my mom was around. This means that I adopted a masculine temperament and was criticized by my female peer group for not performing as a woman. To this day it’s easier for me to get along with men and boys in my life and I still struggle with makeup and being female, getting along with women, and dealing with my significant quantity of masculine hobbies. I was fortunate that my mom taught me how to sew and how to read and how to study the Scriptures, at least. These are all things that Christian women are expected to do, in addition to cooking delicious baked goods (the latter of which I had to learn on my own).

I was raised with the idea that femininity was weak and inferior and that I had to perform masculinity to be accepted by the men in my life, and even to be myself. I’m not saying that’s universal, but I confess discomfort with the idea. Not to mention the fact that if the two dads aren’t actually loving, the consequences could be horrific beyond all description.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The Greeks always struck me as more liberal and willing to conform to immoral ideas of homosexuality. I can only hope the Church remains faithful and rejects the legitimacy of any so called homosexual marriage.

But this is what happens when you embrace the west. It destroys your people, their values and way of life.

 

[BCP1928]

You’re right, but the LGBT crowd is the ones that want approval for their lifestyle. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

The Greek Orthodox Church and much of the Greek population disapproved of SSM and still do, but they recognized the arrogance of criminalizing Christian sins for the non-Christian citizens of a secular state. Same sex couples neither wanted nor needed the approval of the Greek Church, they just wanted civil marriage.

 

[Hans Blaster]

But this is what happens when you embrace the west. It destroys your people, their values and way of life.

"The West" basically started in Greece 2500 years ago or so.

 

[RileyG]

The Greek Orthodox Church and much of the Greek population disapproved of SSM and still do, but they recognized the arrogance of criminalizing Christian sins for the non-Christian citizens of a secular state. Same sex couples neither wanted nor needed the approval of the Greek Church, they just wanted civil marriage.

They’ll demand approval for their lifestyle like they usually go. Anything less is seen as “hate.” I feel sad for Greece

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

"The West" basically started in Greece 2500 years ago or so.

And?

The modern west is not what an Orthodox nation should be.

 

[RileyG]

And?

The modern west is not what an Orthodox nation should be.

Exactly! Or any Christian nation

 

[Hans Blaster]

And?

The modern west is not what an Orthodox nation should be.

And here I thought Greece was a democratic nation (something they also invented).

 

[driewerf]

I could care less about the secular law.

You should. For it is secular law that regulates our behaviour here on Earth. Brek it and you can be exposed to fines or even jail time. And these things are real.

What concerns me is what this means for the Church to preach according to the Bible. For ex. if a priest or pastor preaches that we are created male & female and it is those in which we believe God says that is what a human marriage is ( Mark 10:1-12).

Nonsense. Ignoring the fact that we are not created, male and female stay what they are and have always been. A change in matrimonial law doesn't change that. What changes is that Same Sex Couples can now register their relationship in the same way as "traditional" couples, with the same legal rights and protection.

Will the secularist “rights” authority say such preaching violates their interpretation of “rights”?

No. Secularists - contrasting with religionists - understand the separation of church and state very well. You guys should do well to study and understand that difference too. It will avoid an embarrassing display of ignorance - and ignorance is the most charitable assessment - when discussing secular law.

 

[driewerf]

Exactly! Or any Christian nation

And?

The modern west is not what an Orthodox nation should be.

There are no christian or orthodox nations. There are nations with a christian (orthodox) majority. There are a few theocracies, like Iran or Afghanistan (and Hamas would like to have one too) but these aren't nations you want to live in.

 

[Ophiolite]

There are no christian or orthodox nations. There are nations with a christian (orthodox) majority. There are a few theocracies, like Iran or Afghanistan (and Hamas would like to have one too) but these aren't nations you want to live in.

Technically it could be argued that the UK is a Christian nation in that it has an Established Church, with the King being Supreme Governer of that church and bishops sitting in the second chamber of Parliament, the House of Lords. Of course this has not prevented the majority of the population falling away from Christrianity, nor prevent a thriving Moslem population continue to gain adherents.

But I entirely get your point and agree.

 

[stevevw]

Many adoption agencies will not give children to unmarried people.

Many Church based adoption agencies are banned from only adopting to traditional married couples. They must now conform with State or National laws which give equal rights to SSM. That puts many Christian adoption agencies in an ethical dilemma or out of business altogether.

 

[BCP1928]

Many Church based adoption agencies are banned from only adopting to traditional married couples. They must now conform with State or National laws which give equal rights to SSM. That puts many Christian adoption agencies in an ethical dilemma or out of business altogether.

Good.

 

[Larniavc]

I think about the children who have to suffer from having same-sex parents.

My son has same sex grand parents and I have a mum in a same sex marriage.

Would you like to ask any specific questions about our ‘suffering’?