linssue55 said:
No, that is NOT what he is saying. The condemnation of these evil's were brought about through there own free will, .......they have condemned themselves! God uses these sins and evils as an example to others, showing that in forgiveness by God, all is possible! This is what ticks the fallen angels off. This is the kicker to them, when they see us lowly humans confessing our sins, AND being forgiven!, they cringe, and say, "Oh no, we are in trouble". In all respects they see the mercy and the justice of God prevail. All comes full circle so to say. God is perfect, His plan is perfect!
Thank you for that!
Another point. Jesus did not come to condemn the world. It was already condemned by God. He came to offer the solution to those who are surrounded by that condemnation. When men in their free will are allowed to act upon what's in their hearts by doing sin and evil, these actions are used as evidence to show there was a definite need for Jesus dying on the Cross in their place. If God did not allow for the expression of sin? Then men would ask, "What did Jesus die for?" Men could not know they were sinners!
The other problem that calvanists face (as well as all of us who desire to understand the Bible) is that those who do not believe are not condemned for not believing. It states that they do not believe because they are already condemned!
Why is that? Already condemned? When we believe in Christ it is because we have already passed the test of the Father's drawing of all men. Those who resist the drawing are condemned on the basis of having resisted the Holy Spirit's work in the drawing of the Father. Here, let me explain.
John 3:18 (New International Version)
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
Not believing in Jesus Christ reveals that this person stood as being condemneed by God
before being presented the Gospel. Not because they reject the Gospel.
All quoted from John 6, niv.....
37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Believing in Jesus Christ is a result of the Father having completed his work in the heart of a man. It is not a next stage to see if a person will believe. It is because they already are enabled to believe and had accepted what the criterion of God is for salvation.
God does not make us believe, as calvinists profess. He enables us to believe, and then we must choose to either accept God, or reject God's essence in his drawing of us. That is why some are already condemned. For they were made able to believe and chose to reject it. If we accept who and what God is in his essence as he draws us (totally unaware that it is God doing this) then the Father hands us over to Christ as a gift to Him. The invisible one drawing us becomes manifested in time and space through means of God being manifested as Christ.
43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. "
Many of these Jews were following after Jesus because he was drawing great attention to himself by his miracles and words spoken with absolute authority. These Jews were conditioned by the religious leaders in seeking salvation by doing works. These Jews were trying to find out what works Jesus would have them to do. When Jesus slammed them by saying they must eat his flesh and drink his blood, that just threw them off a cliff!!! They could not do this work! For they were taking him literally. Literally, because they were not spiritually alive.
That is why Jesus said that the Father must do the work in drawing a man to come to the point of being saved. Its not by works (a system of gaining God's approbation devised by religious men), but we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ. Our belief indicates that the Father suceeded in drawing another to Himself.
Yet, no man can have anything to do with God in his fallen state. Man is totally depraved. And, add to that. God can not look upon sin. Yet, God saw Jesus as having been already slain before the foundations of the world, so God was free to contact men with their sins filtered out of the equation. Man could not see this. God did.
If our soul is a slave to the flesh's dominance over our soul? How could any man get saved?
Impossible! That, is. If left as we are!
65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
Grace is what we are saved by. Through faith.... We are not saved by faith, through grace.......
Grace
is God giving power which allows us who are yet in a body of corruption, to walk
when controlled by the Spirit, as if we have no sin.
Grace enables us to be more as God wants us to be while the grace is operational. Grace is God's over riding power given to men which opens the eyes and removes the blindness caused by depravity of the flesh... but, only while grace is present. Grace is given to have the soul be free from being enslaved by the flesh. Grace is what gives enabling to men who are otherwise totaly depraved when left to their own abilities.
God draws all men.
Titus 2:11-12 (New International Version)
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age."
To draw all men, God must enable men's souls to make decisions concerning "this thing" that is making itself known subconciously (and subtly) to them. They do not yet know it is God.
Grace is applied at those moments (sovereignty of God does this while we are yet unsaved sinners) and God reveals supernaturally things to men that touch upon his essence. Men are not aware of what is going on consciously. When it happens they may be mystified at times, and even wonder as to how they can have such an experience such as
da ja vous (God revealing his omniscience) or, having a thought on how creation with all its design and order could not just have happened by chance.... those are a few examples.
Men while drawn do not know this to be God yet. They only realize that some thing is beyond them, its something supernatural that they are being drawn to. That, what they see with their eyes is not all there is to know. God draws in ways we can not know. I am only citing a few more obvious things I can think of which do happen to many.
God draws men along by grace. It is not irresistble grace as calvinists claim.
Acts 7:51 niv
"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!"
That being said, when God administers his drawing in the power of giving men grace, its effect is to separate the soul from the undue influence of the flesh which can not normally be resisted.
When freed up by grace from the flesh's dominance, what the soul now decides is another matter. Since the soul is not being controlled by the flesh as God draws men along, it can not be called "sin" by what men think when they reject. This rejection comes free of the sin nature's influence.
It (rejection of God) is thinking that the soul alone has devised in order to counter the essence of God. This is what is called "evil." Evil and sin are not the same things. Jesus died for our sins. He did not pay for evil. Evil is lying against the truth. This is what Satan from the beginning did from his perfect state. He was not created a sinner. He chose from his perfection to reject God. That was not sin. That was evil!
So? If God draws a man, and the man keeps rejecting the essence of God through the fabrication of lies and rationalizations as to counter the truth?
There comes a point when God stops his drawing process. God then condemns the man. This man will never receive the grace to see Christ as he is. Those who do not believe, are therfore ALREADY condemned! They are not condemned for not believing in Christ. They already were condemned. And, as a result. Unable to believe in Christ. For belief in Christ is a present (reward)... a gift from God!
Ephesians 2:8-9 (New International Version)
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
We believe in Christ because we have already passed the test of the Father in drawing us. During that drawing period the entire issue is
our volition!
God performs this drawing in such an invisible and subtle way that we are set at liberty to feel free to accept or reject what is going on. Men who choose evil, rationalize away this drawing all the time. They fabricate lies in order to explain away the supernatural, as well to deny the natural order of things God has established.
God can not draw these men to completeness. Therefore, they are never given to Christ as a gift from the Father to the Son. They become like their father Satan who is the father of all lies against the truth. That is why they share in Satan's destiny. "Like father, like son."
Grace and peace, GeneZ
). 
