Futurist/Amil&PP (PP means partial preterism)

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
According to the numbers, approximately 12.15% of the viewers on the eschatology forum believe in amillennialism or partial preterism.

Regarding those who believe in the intrinsically futuristic nature of prophecy the numbers are 87.84%


1. PP's and Amils 12.15%

2. Futurists 87.84%

That means, that for every 100 people, 88 of them believe Christ has yet to return for the millennial reign, and Daniels prophesied 70th week has not been fulfilled.

Ladies and Gentlemen..


Im no genius, but we as Christians can only attest to what is true by the mouth of witnesses from our own faith, and the numbers don't lie.



Watch how the preterists say "Jesus wasn't popular"...

Enjoy..
 

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
If it's a numbers game then Amillennialism wins by a landslide.

1.2 billion Roman Catholics
~300 million Eastern Orthodox
86 million Oriental Orthodox
85 million Anglicans (including Episcopalians)
75 million Lutherans
75 million Methodists
40 million Presbyterians

Those numbers alone add up to 1.8 billion* Christians from denominations and traditions that are wholly or primarily Amillennialist in position.

*Acknowledging that there are some within some of these denominations who are Millennialists; but conversely there are many, many in other denominations not listed who are also Amillennialist.

But taking those numbers again, we can easily argue that, give or take, at least 88% of the world's Christian population is Amillennialist.

Are you sure you want to play the numbers game? I don't think that's one you're going to win in this instance.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
O

Old Timer

Guest
If it's a numbers game then Amillennialism wins by a landslide.

1.2 billion Roman Catholics
~300 million Eastern Orthodox
86 million Oriental Orthodox
85 million Anglicans (including Episcopalians)
75 million Lutherans
75 million Methodists
40 million Presbyterians

Those numbers alone add up to 1.8 billion* Christians from denominations and traditions that are wholly or primarily Amillennialist in position.

*Acknowledging that there are some within some of these denominations who are Millennialists; but conversely there are many, many in other denominations not listed who are also Amillennialist.

But taking those numbers again, we can easily argue that, give or take, at least 88% of the world's Christian population is Amillennialist.

Are you sure you want to play the numbers game? I don't think that's one you're going to win in this instance.

-CryptoLutheran

I'd be willing to bet that most of these people in these assemblies have no idea what amillennialism actually is..

I'd also be willing to bet that if they did understand amillennialism.. Then perhaps 80-90% would abandon it.

The multitudes are simply added because of the doctrine of these self proclaimed infallible assemblies.. Which they have nothing to do with.
 
Upvote 0
O

Old Timer

Guest
To emphasize this further..

The clergy in these assemblies may be deceived into believing that they're infallible and therefore believe themselves to be incapable of failing at any doctrine.. although that has nothing to do with the laity as they're called..

In most cases I would assume that they (the laity) are simply ignorant of what amillennialism truly means.

IMO there's a difference between deception and ignorance.. but the point is that the multitudes which these assemblies represent, cannot be attributed to embracing the doctrine itself.

If any of that makes sense...
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,892
Pacific Northwest
✟732,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I'd be willing to bet that most of these people in these assemblies have no idea what amillennialism actually is..

I'd also be willing to bet that if they did understand amillennialism.. Then perhaps 80-90% would abandon it.

The multitudes are simply added because of the doctrine of these self proclaimed infallible assemblies.. Which they have nothing to do with.

That seems like little nothing more than a hand-waving dismissal--"They can't really believe these things, after all, they belong to those churches."

To emphasize this further..

The clergy in these assemblies may be deceived into believing that they're infallible and therefore believe themselves to be incapable of failing at any doctrine.. although that has nothing to do with the laity as they're called..

In most cases I would assume that they (the laity) are simply ignorant of what amillennialism truly means.

IMO there's a difference between deception and ignorance.. but the point is that the multitudes which these assemblies represent, cannot be attributed to embracing the doctrine itself.

If any of that makes sense...

None of the groups I've mentioned have clergy that claim infallibility. The only one that comes even remotely close is Roman Catholicism with its doctrine of Papal Infallibility--but even that is only applicable matters where the Roman pontiff speaks ex cathedra; which has as far as I know happened a total of twice since the dogma was defined in the mid 19th century. Thus, not even the Pope is blanketly infallible even by Roman Catholic standards.

I think the only demonstration of ignorance here is your own concerning the various and many church bodies that make up Christendom and a need to dismiss the majority of your Christian brethren as empty-minded sheeple.

We either get to play by the OP's number crunching rules or we don't. If we are playing that game, Amillennialism is the clear victor.

Though I would agree with the OP's closing dismissal statement that a majority does not determine truth.

Truth is not determined by numbers, but if we are going to count numbers, then the numbers belong to the Amillennialist position.

So in the end, perhaps playing the numbers game isn't a prudent route to go in order to advance the Millennialist cause; and instead one should find a better argument to advance Millennialist ideas--demonstrate that Millennialism is true and right by its own merits.

But what nobody here gets to do is play the "Majority wins" card, and then when shown they are the clear minority dismiss the whole thing with a "Well, you all don't even really know what you're talking about anyway."

Y'all made your bed, now sleep in it.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That seems like little nothing more than a hand-waving dismissal--"They can't really believe these things, after all, they belong to those churches."



None of the groups I've mentioned have clergy that claim infallibility. The only one that comes even remotely close is Roman Catholicism with its doctrine of Papal Infallibility--but even that is only applicable matters where the Roman pontiff speaks ex cathedra; which has as far as I know happened a total of twice since the dogma was defined in the mid 19th century. Thus, not even the Pope is blanketly infallible even by Roman Catholic standards.

I think the only demonstration of ignorance here is your own concerning the various and many church bodies that make up Christendom and a need to dismiss the majority of your Christian brethren as empty-minded sheeple.

We either get to play by the OP's number crunching rules or we don't. If we are playing that game, Amillennialism is the clear victor.

Though I would agree with the OP's closing dismissal statement that a majority does not determine truth.

Truth is not determined by numbers, but if we are going to count numbers, then the numbers belong to the Amillennialist position.

So in the end, perhaps playing the numbers game isn't a prudent route to go in order to advance the Millennialist cause; and instead one should find a better argument to advance Millennialist ideas--demonstrate that Millennialism is true and right by its own merits.

But what nobody here gets to do is play the "Majority wins" card, and then when shown they are the clear minority dismiss the whole thing with a "Well, you all don't even really know what you're talking about anyway."

Y'all made your bed, now sleep in it.

-CryptoLutheran

Which one of those Churches you mentioned has the correct doctrine..

lol


Christianity is a universal Church, it has no walls, names or denominations..:thumbsup:


Try interchanging the churches you just mentioned, lol
 
Upvote 0
O

Old Timer

Guest
That seems like little nothing more than a hand-waving dismissal--"They can't really believe these things, after all, they belong to those churches."

That's why I said that I'd be willing to bet..

None of the groups I've mentioned have clergy that claim infallibility. The only one that comes even remotely close is Roman Catholicism with its doctrine of Papal Infallibility--but even that is only applicable matters where the Roman pontiff speaks ex cathedra; which has as far as I know happened a total of twice since the dogma was defined in the mid 19th century. Thus, not even the Pope is blanketly infallible even by Roman Catholic standards.

I know.. things like constantly referring to themselves as the one true church or one of my personal favs.. His All Holiness... simply speaks of how humble these assemblies are..

I think the only demonstration of ignorance here is your own concerning the various and many church bodies that make up Christendom and a need to dismiss the majority of your Christian brethren as empty-minded sheeple.

Like I said.. I'd be willing to bet that most don't understand what amil is, and if they did.. would drop it like the nonsense that it is..

I could show you how amil is grossly wrong in less than 5 minutes and you know what.. it would not matter one bit.. you'll all just pretend that there's no way that your assembly can be wrong.

We either get to play by the OP's number crunching rules or we don't. If we are playing that game, Amillennialism is the clear victor.

Probably because the god of this present evil world would have it no other way...

Though I would agree with the OP's closing dismissal statement that a majority does not determine truth.

Truth is not determined by numbers, but if we are going to count numbers, then the numbers belong to the Amillennialist position.

I agree that numbers are not always the way, although sometimes they can be very revealing and unbiased.

So in the end, perhaps playing the numbers game isn't a prudent route to go in order to advance the Millennialist cause; and instead one should find a better argument to advance Millennialist ideas--demonstrate that Millennialism is true and right by its own merits.

I agree.. it's actually very simple to refute amil from the scriptures.. although I can assure you that it would not matter one iota to most who can't see past their infallible assembly.

But what nobody here gets to do is play the "Majority wins" card, and then when shown they are the clear minority dismiss the whole thing with a "Well, you all don't even really know what you're talking about anyway."

Y'all made your bed, now sleep in it.

-CryptoLutheran

I'm not dismissing anything.. and there's not a shred of doubt in my mind as to how ridiculous amillennialism actually is.. but again, it doesn't matter when the clergy decide what their doctrine shall be.

Let me ask you this..

Do you think any of these assemblies would ever admit that they're wrong about amillennialism?

I doubt it.. but would be interested in what you might think about that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
O

Old Timer

Guest
To think that Christ is reigning over the earth right now is to be completely blind to the fact that Satan is the god of this present evil world.. along with the rulers of the darkness of this world..

To me it's literally as if they can't tell the difference between Satan ruling over it or the Lord Jesus Christ..

Truly amazing..

And what's more amazing to me is that the god of this present evil world has many duped into thinking that he's nothing more than a thing of the past..

They must love this stuff.. because they know that they can play on a person's pride all day long with the result typically being men becoming hardened to the truth rather than softened to it.
 
Upvote 0

Interplanner

Newbie
Aug 5, 2012
11,882
113
near Olympic National Park
✟12,847.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Satan pretends to have power, but actually church history shows that with all of its faults the church is actually helping the world civilize: various forms of equality, the rise of science and medicine. So it is Satan who is duped into thinking that Acts 2 and Eph 1-4 don't really mean that Christ is Lord.

The declaration that Christ is Lord was considered competitive to Roman admin. The puzzle was: who to counter attack; there was no army per se. Jews in league with Roman admin also bark at it being subversive as we know from Acts.
 
Upvote 0

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To think that Christ is reigning over the earth right now is to be completely blind to the fact that Satan is the god of this present evil world.. along with the rulers of the darkness of this world..

To me it's literally as if they can't tell the difference between Satan ruling over it or the Lord Jesus Christ..

Truly amazing..

And what's more amazing to me is that the god of this present evil world has many duped into thinking that he's nothing more than a thing of the past..

They must love this stuff.. because they know that they can play on a person's pride all day long with the result typically being men becoming hardened to the truth rather than softened to it.

desperate.

They are reaching for anything that will save them for what is coming and will put their minds at ease..

Its a perfectly natural response, if you are a secularist..
 
Upvote 0

Interplanner

Newbie
Aug 5, 2012
11,882
113
near Olympic National Park
✟12,847.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Nothing has changed Shocker; that's proof that the apostles were declaring the kingdom or reign of God then. It is futurists with their postponements and delays about a kingdom that "needs" to be in modern Israel who have a weak message for our world.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Nothing has changed Shocker; that's proof that the apostles were declaring the kingdom or reign of God then. It is futurists with their postponements and delays about a kingdom that "needs" to be in modern Israel who have a weak message for our world.

That went right over your head, lol...
 
Upvote 0
O

Old Timer

Guest
You know where amil came from?

Someone read Rev 20 and spiritualized its context into the here and now rather than simply allowing it to remain in its stated context.. which is the things which shall be hereafter..

And then I'm sure they must have felt spiritually superior after thinking that this was a revelation from God..

It actually came from the rulers of the darkness of this world.. who would have men believe anything but the simple God's honest truth.

Then to lock it in.. let's get them to think that they're all infallible..

Yeah.. that would work..
 
Upvote 0

Shocker

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2014
3,175
34
✟3,534.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
it came from the first chapter of Rev which makes it very clear that the events described were present, at hand, quickly.

Show me the mark of the beast and all those who took it and were cast into hell with the beast and false prophet.

Just show me..
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
O

Old Timer

Guest
And that's another thing which the rulers of the darkness of this world would have men believe.. that the holy scriptures are nothing more than a first century history lesson..

It works fine if you're not born again by the incorruptible seed of the word of God.. although to those who do have on their armour and understand the power within the Sword of the Spirit..

It's simply futile..

And it's most likely impossible to even understand the difference unless a person has Spirit of truth in them..
 
Upvote 0