Frances Collins concept of God

[Jimmy D]

The laws of thermodynamics are not flawed. Only man's brute understanding of the laws of thermodynamics are flawed.

I think he's suggesting that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

A basic outline that is not reflected in reality

Genesis chapter one is 100 percent verified by Science. There is no conflict between Science and the Bible. God stands behind His word. The laws we read about in the Bible are just as rock solid and verifiable as the natural laws that we study in Science.

"Every word of God is flawless"
Every word of God proves true.
Every word of God is tested.
Every word of God is pure
Proverbs 30:5

 

[joshua 1 9]

That something being chemical reactions?

The point is that you can know God through the study of those: "chemical reactions". This is a better way to know God then to try to know God though a study of the brute savage nature of man.

 

[Simmo11]

Genesis chapter one is 100 percent verified by Science. There is no conflict between Science and the Bible. God stands behind His word. The laws we read about in the Bible are just as rock solid and verifiable as the natural laws that we study in Science.

Especially the part where the plants were made before the sun that's 100% correct.

 

[Jimmy D]

Genesis chapter one is 100 percent verified by Science.

You keep saying this, can you give an example? It seems you're the only person who can see it, apart from that Aman777 or whatever his name was.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The laws of thermodynamics are not flawed. Only man's brute understanding of the laws of thermodynamics are flawed.

Your argument is flawed.

Ignoring that the sun feeds the earth with workable energy 24/7 makes it flawed.
The earth is not a closed system, in that regard.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Wrong, this is where people get confused.

I'm not confused at all. I'm just pointing out that your bare assertions based on your religion are just that: bare assertions based on your religion.

They look at what man has created and they call that God.

I'm not calling anything "god".

You have it backwards. God is the Creator, not man

More assertions........

If you want to know God then study what you know. Study Gravity and the study of the Natural Laws will tell you about God.

And again more assertions....
There's no "god variable" in the equations of gravity.

Just like the Science of Archaeology. You study the artifacts and from that you surmise the people that created those artifacts. Charles Lyell studied Geology and from the study of Geology he gained understanding of the God that created the rocks that Lyell studied. As man grapples with his own intellectual understanding of a changing world he must come to terms with his own brute and savage instincts.

God created man, man does not create God.
We can know God though a study of the natural laws.
Men of science that deny God are without excuse.

Declaring things to be true, does not make them true.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The Anthropic Principle is based on the "self-evident truth", that if the universe had not been suitable for life the we would not be here.

Right, but that is not what you initially stated.

What is known is that there are only three possibilities: either "nothing created something" or "something created itself" or "something created something else". All people of sound mind are going to come to the conclusion that: "something created something else".

I don't think that anyone is claiming that life just popped up out of nowhere ex-nihilo..........

What we call "gravity" is known to exist through its observed effect (even though no one sees it directly or even understand how it works).

What we call "evolution" is known to exist through its observed effects also.
Common ancestry is a genetic fact.
Inheritable mutation is a bio-chemical fact.

God created the natural laws.

....and yet another bare assertion.

So the study of Science is a study of the Natural laws that God created.

Only if you accept the bare assertion as true, on faith - of all things.

The Universe itself is evidence for God

No. The universe is evidence of the universe. It's not evidence for your deity of choice, any more then it is evidence for the gods of other religions.

Paul tells us:

I don't care what Paul says any more then I care what Captain Kirk says.
Try some verifiable evidence instead...

People claim they have an excuse because they study man's opinions. They should study Science and the Natural Laws and then they would clearly understand that nothing can exist apart from God.

More bare assertions.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Genesis chapter one is 100 percent verified by Science. There is no conflict between Science and the Bible. God stands behind His word. The laws we read about in the Bible are just as rock solid and verifiable as the natural laws that we study in Science.

"Every word of God is flawless"
Every word of God proves true.
Every word of God is tested.
Every word of God is pure
Proverbs 30:5

Your hero Francis Collins, heavily disagrees.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The point is that you can know God through the study of those: "chemical reactions". This is a better way to know God then to try to know God though a study of the brute savage nature of man.

You keep stating that one must scientifically study the world "to learn about god", but at the same time, you consistently reject the findings of science when they contradict your a priori religious beliefs.

What's that about?

 

[Astrophile]

What is known is that there are only three possibilities: either "nothing created something" or "something created itself" or "something created something else". All people of sound mind are going to come to the conclusion that: "something created something else".

And what created the something that created something else? Your argument contradicts itself.

 

[Loudmouth]

Just where did those objects come from? Even if you say they spontaneous generation that requires the right conditions for them to generate themselves. Yet things do not organize themselves, just the opposite the Universe is moving toward disorder or entropy.

You would think that just once we could find a creationist who properly understood entropy.

The 2nd law of thermodynamics does not prevent order from disorder in smaller systems. All it requires is that the total entropy increase over time.

A good analogy is the Dow Jones Industrial Average. If the Dow Jones goes down by 100 points, does that mean all stocks used for the average went down, or could it be that some of those stocks increased while the average was down?

"It is a matter of common experience, that things get more disordered and chaotic with time.

Then you need to get out more and learn what entropy is. Every time you turn a refrigerator on, you are going from disorder to order. If what you claim is true, refrigerators shouldn't work.

 

[Loudmouth]

The laws of thermodynamics are not flawed. Only man's brute understanding of the laws of thermodynamics are flawed.

To be more precise, YOUR understanding of thermodynamics is flawed.

 

[Hoghead1]

I assume what you are talking about is the very first chapter in Genesis. Where you get a basic outline and all the details are filled in later. The funny thing is you make it look like we are so intelligent and God is ignorant. I am not sure how you manage to get it all twisted that way.

In point of fact, Genesis provides two conflicting accounts of creation. This doesn't make God look ignorant, it makes those look ignorant who are naïve enough to believe that God intended the Bible to be a scientific witness. Also, while we're on the subject, just why do you consider yourself to be so much smarter than all these scientists to make it look like you are so intelligent and all these highly trained experts are ignorant?

 

[Astrophile]

It is a matter of common experience, that things get more disordered and chaotic with time.

Did you become more disordered and chaotic in the nine months before you were born?

 

[joshua 1 9]

A basic outline that is not reflected in reality, as your mate Francis Collins would agree. I'm not suggesting 'God is ignorant' as I don't believe he a) wrote Genesis or b) exists.

I assume you believe in Science and the natural laws of science. All I am saying is that God is associated with those Natural laws. So if you want to know God, if you want to understand God then study Science and the Laws of Science. No one is asking you to put your trust in Man. Put your trust in the God that Created the Universe that we live in using the laws that are well understood by Science. As they say Science tells us HOW and Religion tells us WHY.

 

[joshua 1 9]

In point of fact, Genesis provides two conflicting accounts of creation.

A very simple google search shows that what you are saying is not true. This is what we call a Pratt and I am not going to waste my time refuting the same old stuff that the serpent used to deceive Eve in the Garden.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Did you become more disordered and chaotic in the nine months before you were born?

I do not understand, are you refuting the Second Law of Thermodynamics? The order in one body can increase, provided that the amount of disorder in its surroundings increases by a greater amount. So a baby brings disorder and chaos to their environment.

 

[Oafman]

in whom he could infuse this search for him and this knowledge of good and evil

I do find it slightly disappointing that a man of Collins' education and intelligence is not satisfied that our innate understanding of good and evil, of right and wrong, is a product of our evolution, and succumbs to presenting untestable supernatural 'explanations' for it. You'd think he'd know better.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I do find it slightly disappointing that a man of Collins' education and intelligence is not satisfied that our innate understanding of good and evil, of right and wrong, is a product of our evolution, and succumbs to presenting untestable supernatural 'explanations' for it. You'd think he'd know better.

Looks like the attempt to brainwash him failed. He must have had an innate desire to know the truth and to be set free from the bondage of deception. The old serpent talk does not seem to have an effect on Collins.