Frances Collins concept of God

[Jimmy D]

I agree with Collins in general. He has to make compromises that I do not have to make. I already explained that to you.

What compromises?

So you do not see any difference between theistic evolution and non theistic or atheistic evolution?

Whether life was started by chemical reactions, aliens seeding the Earth or God pointing his finger and creating two prokaryotes makes no difference to the facts of evolution and common descent.

Maybe God even started the big bang and sat back for 14 billion years (Surely a blink of the eye for an eternal being).

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Scien...-Threatened-By-Our-Scientific-Adventures.aspx

But I have no difficulty putting that together with what I believe as a Christian because I believe that God had a plan to create creatures with whom he could have fellowship, in whom he could inspire [the] moral law, in whom he could infuse the soul, and who he would give free will as a gift for us to make decisions about our own behavior, a gift which we oftentimes utilize to do the wrong thing.

I believe God used the mechanism of evolution to achieve that goal. And while that may seem to us who are limited by this axis of time as a very long, drawn-out process, it wasn't long and drawn-out to God. And it wasn't random to God.

[He] had the plan all along of how that would turn out. There was no ambiguity about that.................


..................If God is real, and I believe he is, then he is outside of nature. He is, therefore, not limited by the laws of nature in the way that we are. He's not limited by time. In the very moment of that flash in which the universe was created, an unimaginable burst of energy, God also had the plan of how that would coalesce into stars and galaxies, planets, and how life would arrive on a small planet near the outer rim of a spiral galaxy. And ultimately, over hundreds of millions of years, give rise to creatures with intelligence and in whom he could infuse this search for him and this knowledge of good and evil. And all of that happened in his mind in the blink of an eye. While it may seem to us that this whole process has the risk of randomness and, therefore, an unpredictable outcome, that was not the case for God.
Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Scien...tific-Adventures.aspx?p=2#TFJAQghW4u2OQuJY.99


It seems the main difference between Collins and yourself is that he is prepared to accept Genesis for what it is - Allegory. Whereas you have some queer notion that it has to be accepted as factual history leading you have to perform all sorts of mental contortions and adding things to it that aren't there in an attempt to reconcile it with scientific and historical facts.

 

[SteveB28]

So you do not see any difference between theistic evolution and non theistic or atheistic evolution?

No. The adjectives are redundant and irrelevant.

 

[joshua 1 9]

What compromises?

Collins sells books so he has to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience to sell more books. I do not make any money from this so I do not have to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience.

 

[bhsmte]

Collins sells books so he has to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience to sell more books. I do not make any money from this so I do not have to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience.

Quite an assumption.

 

[lesliedellow]

Quite an assumption.

He makes no secret of the fact that he is a committed Christian, so in what sense he is feigning neutrality, I don't know.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Collins sells books so he has to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience to sell more books. I do not make any money from this so I do not have to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience.

the success of books written by Rush Limbaugh would suggest that taking a neutral stance is by no means necessary or even beneficial for book sales.

 

[joshua 1 9]

the success of books written by Rush Limbaugh would suggest that taking a neutral stance is by no means necessary or even beneficial for book sales.

Do you respect Rush Limbaugh to the same degree that you respect Francis Collins?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Do you respect Rush Limbaugh to the same degree that you respect Francis Collins?

I don't really know enough about either of them to make a comment. As in, I am of no opinion. However, while I personally respect people with more moderate views most of the time, that's more a consequence of being somewhat moderate myself. People are prone to respecting people with the same views or habits as their own. However, I respect people that are willing to be as honestly out there as they are than people who compromise for the sake of popularity.

 

[bhsmte]

Do you respect Rush Limbaugh to the same degree that you respect Francis Collins?

If a person has great credentials and has respect, should be less need for them to be neutral.

 

[FredVB]

There is the biblical perspective of God, Yahweh who is revealed in the Bible. Christian believers should trust that perspective and the things said involving that. Besides this, there is wider understanding that there is one God. It will be in other cases a different perspective of what God is like, such as God being involved with evolution leading to the world as it would be perceived now, which is possible in such other perspectives. But such perspective will not be compatible with the biblical perspective Christians are to believe, with Yahweh starting all creation with the perfection that would come from God, without death or suffering, where all is very good.

 

[Simmo11]

There is the biblical perspective of God, Yahweh who is revealed in the Bible. Christian believers should trust that perspective and the things said involving that. Besides this, there is wider understanding that there is one God.

Can you give me one good reason why anyone should think there is only one God? a reason please not a belief.

 

[Hoghead1]

There is the biblical perspective of God, Yahweh who is revealed in the Bible. Christian believers should trust that perspective and the things said involving that. Besides this, there is wider understanding that there is one God. It will be in other cases a different perspective of what God is like, such as God being involved with evolution leading to the world as it would be perceived now, which is possible in such other perspectives. But such perspective will not be compatible with the biblical perspective Christians are to believe, with Yahweh starting all creation with the perfection that would come from God, without death or suffering, where all is very good.

It all depends on how you view God as related to Scripture. For example, I don't believe that God ever intended Scripture to be an accurate scientific or geophysical witness. Divinely inspired as it may be, the Bible was written by males living in a prescientific culture. God is like a careful carpenter, God works with the grain, not against it. God can move only as fast as we are ready. Under the circumstances, it would be ridiculous to assume God would have imparted advanced scientific knowledge to the ancient Israelites, as they would not have known what to do with it. Also, the Bible is not a whole or complete revelation of God. The Bible is not a book of metaphysics, tells us very little about how God is built. What we get are snap shots which often conflict. it is up to the reader to try and put them together into a unified picture of God.

 

[Simmo11]

Can you give me one good reason why anyone should think there is only one God? a reason please not a belief.

Of course you can't because no one can.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Collins sells books so he has to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience to sell more books. I do not make any money from this so I do not have to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience.

Ow, so you are just accusing him of lying just to sell books...

Great.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Ow, so you are just accusing him of lying just to sell books...

Great.

No I am accusing him of being a white version of Uncle Tom for lack of a better epithet. I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting along with people. I know there are people on here abscessed with character assignation. To the point where sometimes it makes WWW look like a girl scout meeting. Character assassination was not my objective. I leave that for the narcissists.

 

[Loudmouth]

Out desire to prevent the death of other members of our species? We are probably the most violent species on the face of the planet. We think nothing of starting world wars. Not to mention death camps during both war and peace times.

Do women bite off the heads of their mates? If not, then the praying mantis is still more violent than we are. Chimps and wolves are even more violent towards their own species than humans are.

 

[Loudmouth]

Collins sells books so he has to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience to sell more books. I do not make any money from this so I do not have to be neutral to appeal to a wider audience.

Creationists sell plenty of books. It seems that you think Collins is lying simply because you don't like his theology.

 

[Loudmouth]

No I am accusing him of being a white version of Uncle Tom for lack of a better epithet. I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting along with people. I know there are people on here abscessed with character assignation. To the point where sometimes it makes WWW look like a girl scout meeting. Character assassination was not my objective. I leave that for the narcissists.

So says the person who has already attacked Collins' character.

 

[bhsmte]

No I am accusing him of being a white version of Uncle Tom for lack of a better epithet. I am not saying there is anything wrong with getting along with people. I know there are people on here abscessed with character assignation. To the point where sometimes it makes WWW look like a girl scout meeting. Character assassination was not my objective. I leave that for the narcissists.

Sure sounds like you are accusing him of lying to sell books.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So says the person who has already attacked Collins' character.

I have? You are accusing me of the very thing that you are guilty of yet again. Do you plan to spend the rest of your life trying to accuse others of what you are guilty of?