Ezekiel's Temple

[Houly]

Is Ezekiel's Temple an actual temple that will be built with his measurements?

Ezekiel 40:5 - Ezekiel 42:20

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I voted yes, as why spend 8 chapters describing something that will never exist? I don't go along with a lot of Ezekiel's prophesy, but I don't think he was a complete fraud.. he did experience stuff. (some say the book was written by more than one literal Ezekiel).
I think the Temple will be built in the New Earth.. an eternal kingdom, after the day of the Lord. Although not all of it perhaps.. not the old rituals; but it says in there that those who went astray will be stewards in the Temple.. I have read that to mean that not everyone will be finished, who rejected the gospel.. perhaps it's not perfect, but the description is very detailed.. the men with short hair, wearing cloth caps, that was never before, as far as I know.. I think it's a genuine vision of a future Temple.

 

[Bible2]

Houly said in post 1:

Is Ezekiel's Temple an actual temple that will be built with his measurements?

Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, like those in Revelation must happen (Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament/Old Covenant times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

Nonetheless, when Jesus returns and begins his millennial reign on the earth (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:3-21), he will still build a New Covenant, 4th temple building in Jerusalem; and New Covenant animal sacrifices will be offered in front of that temple (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). Instead of these sacrifices being for sin, they could be for thanksgiving (cf. Leviticus 22:29). Jesus could build that temple, and it could be operated according to the description in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48, but leaving out the parts about animal sacrifices for sin. Another possibility is that New Covenant animal sacrifices for sin will be made, but only as a remembrance of Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28), like how communion is currently partaken of in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice (Luke 22:19). The current practice of communion could cease at Jesus' return (1 Corinthians 11:26).

Also, after the millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), when the literal city of New Jerusalem will land on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3), there will no longer be any temple building (Revelation 21:22).

 

[Interplanner]

Interesting position Cosmic, but in the new heavens and earth, God is the temple. That's what makes the term 'new' new.

That is also the problem with the last paragraph of Bible2, even if the mill paragraph was true, which I think has missed what is going on by one epoch.

How else would a prophet communicate that something exceeding the current or past reality was going to happen? They would use the same imagery for the sake of his audience, but that doesn't mean it was actually going to happen, because "something greater than Solomon or the temple or Jonah" was coming.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I don't think it is in a millennium, but some sort of eternal kingdom; the man of bronze was an angel (I have no doubt about that).. so it seems to have been a 'heavenly' vision.. the New Earth is a bringing together of earth/Eden/heaven.
I think there will be a Temple in this Kingdom, despite what Rev. says (..I don't believe in Rev.) It might be a restoration of the days when Yahweh was present in the Temple, as a Shekinah brilliance.. I don't know who the prince is (does anybody?).. it might be Christ, dunno really.

 

[parsley]

As with many prophecies, a lot is left up to the person, with what they will do with the information. He was told to take note, and pay attention to all the measurements.

I was listening to the audio a few times recently and realized many of the measurements were squared. The experience sounded very similar to legends of the multiple pyramids described around the world. Square base. Windows narrowing inward. Inspired by an apparition/outside source.

Evidently God was trying to show people something, maybe a solution to a need or a recommendation, without spelling out everything or mandating it. (Although every measurement was spelled out.)

Rampless theory solves mystery of how ancient Egyptian pyramids were built and Ezekiel's wheels within wheels

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Is Ezekiel's Temple an actual temple that will be built with his measurements?

Ezekiel 40:5 - Ezekiel 42:20

It is the Temple that now is.

Ezekiel shows all the sacrifices happening on a single day.

That the sacrifice of Sukkot, and Yom Kippor and Passover are all done on Nisan 14 just as Jesus symbolized when he died as all these sacrifices on a single day.

The water issues from the Temple and men stand as fishermen wherever the water goes.

Jesus came to make men fishers of men.

 

[keras]

Spiritual interpretations of the Temple are good for us in our present state, but when the great 'Reset of civilization', happens - very soon, and the promises of God to the Patriarchs are fulfilled, that is: the true descendants of Jacob inhabit the holy Land, then a Temple greater than the earlier ones will be built. Haggai 2:9. Those 8 chapters of Ezekiel are not just spiritual notions, but literal measurements and descriptions. Note in Eze 46:12 the 'ruler' of Israel makes offerings in this new Temple, this is not Jesus, it is a leader of New Israel- Jeremiah 30:21, so all this will happen BEFORE the Return. Read all of Jer 30, Eze 36 and Isaiah 62 for how it is going to be.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Spiritual interpretations of the Temple are good for us in our present state, but when the great 'Reset of civilization', happens - very soon, and the promises of God to the Patriarchs are fulfilled, that is: the true descendants of Jacob inhabit the holy Land, then a Temple greater than the earlier ones will be built. Haggai 2:9. Those 8 chapters of Ezekiel are not just spiritual notions, but literal measurements and descriptions. Note in Eze 46:12 the 'ruler' of Israel makes offerings in this new Temple, this is not Jesus, it is a leader of New Israel- Jeremiah 30:21, so all this will happen BEFORE the Return. Read all of Jer 30, Eze 36 and Isaiah 62 for how it is going to be.

The latter Temple talked about is Herod's Temple.

The Temple was destroyed and they came to build it again but it did not look anywhere near as great as the first but there was a promise that it would be greater.

The measurements are in fact why this Temple can't be built because they have no idea what the measurements are.

There is no way to define the cubit in these measurements and so unless a divine voice tells them what a cubit relates to, Ezekiel's Temple cannot be built.


But there are way too many scriptures about Ezekiel's Temple that Jesus fulfilled which points me and others to believe that this Temple is the Temple Jesus came to build.

The waters that flow out of the Temple which go around the world healing waters where it wants to and cursing other waters where it wants to is symbolism about Jesus being the water, that fountain that spread and went throughout the Earth.

The fact that Jesus was a sacrifice for Sukkot and Yom Kippor on the same day also screams that this new thing was to be about Jesus because Jesus fulfilled it.

And of course the making of the fishers of men as Jesus made men to fish for men as it is explained in Ezekiel.

But there are many other things that show Jesus in this Temple, and it is this Temple that Ezekiel shows the house of Israel to be ashamed of their sins.

The construction of it should make them ashamed.

 

[Interplanner]

There is some confusion here about Hag 2 and temples. The glory of the present house was that of Christ's not its size. v3 already said it was much reduced in ordinary glory.

And, does Hannibal think Ezek's temple is Herod's? "The latter temple talked about is Herod's?" Certainly Hag 2's diminutive temple is not Herod's.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

There is some confusion here about Hag 2 and temples. The glory of the present house was that of Christ's not its size. v3 already said it was much reduced in ordinary glory.

And, does Hannibal think Ezek's temple is Herod's? "The latter temple talked about is Herod's?" Certainly Hag 2's diminutive temple is not Herod's.

No, I don't mean to say that there will never be another Temple, But Ezekiel's Temple looks like what Jesus came and built.

But when I see the Temple talked about, I don't always go to an actual Temple. I believe the great prophecies about the last Temple are about humans being that Temple.

 

[ebedmelech]

Ezekiels' temple is found in the church...it is being built now and has been since Christ was resurrected.

Paul tells us about it in Ephesians 2:19-21
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

There's Ezekiels temple! You ca read more on it in Rev 21 starting at verse 10...

 

[Interplanner]

Hannibal,
loved that last phrase "Human beings that Temple." Do you always capitalize your verbs? lol. It sounds like we (EbedM too) are in agreement, I was just making sure.

thanks for the item about the fishers of men. I had not noticed or recalled.

 

[Codger]

There is some confusion here about Hag 2 and temples. The glory of the present house was that of Christ's not its size. v3 already said it was much reduced in ordinary glory.

And, does Hannibal think Ezek's temple is Herod's? "The latter temple talked about is Herod's?" Certainly Hag 2's diminutive temple is not Herod's.

I agree that Ezekiel's Temple is an apocalyptic picture of the coming (In their day) of the Messiah and the resulting New Covenant times. First of all you have the prince - I wonder who he could be? He came from the east - where the cross was located on top of the Mount of Olives. Wasn't the eastern gate sealed? Pix of "it is finished." The offerings were supplied; and normally all of the offerings were brought by the worshipers. But something changed and they were no longer required to provide their own offerings. Do you suppose that this is a picture of Jesus who became the offering for us for all time? Also only one Tamid sacrifice was offered every day - spose' that is a picture of the cross?

And here are a few more markers...

1. [SIZE=-1]No wall of partition to exclude Gentiles (compare Ephesians 2:14) The Gentiles were previously welcome in the Outer Courts, but excluded from the inner courts on pain of death.
   
   [/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=-1]No Court of Women (compare Galatians 3:28 (Outer Court and Inner Court only)
   
   No Laver (see Ezekiel 36:24-27, John 15:3)
   
   No Table of Shewbread (see Micah 5:4, John 6:35)
   
   No Lampstand or Menorah (see Isaiah 49:6, John 8:12)
   
   No Golden Altar of Incense (Zechariah 8:20-23, John 14:6)
   
   No Veil (Isaiah 25:6-8, Matthew 27:51)
   
   No Ark of the Covenant (Jeremiah 3:16, John 10:30-33) [/SIZE]

 

[keras]

The Third Temple – Beit HaMikdesh

Ezekiel 40,41 & 42 Ezekiel measures the Temple and its precincts.
Ezekiel 43 to 48 Details of the Temple furnishings and the Land divisions, etc.

Haggai 2:6-9 In a little while, I shall shake the heavens, the earth, the sea and all the nations. I will fill this House with their treasures. This latter House will be greater than former. In this place, I shall grant prosperity and peace.
[The Second Temple was not greater than Solomon’s Temple]
Zechariah 1:16-17 These are the words of the Lord; I have returned to Jerusalem with compassion, My House is to be rebuilt there. My cities will again brim with prosperity, once again the Lord will comfort Zion and make Jerusalem the city of His choice.
2 Thess 2:3-4 The Return of Jesus cannot come until the man doomed to destruction is revealed and enthrones himself in Gods Temple, claiming to be God.
[What could be clearer than that? The Temple must be rebuilt before the Tribulation.]
Daniel 9:27....He will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings, then will set up an abomination in the Holy place.

Malachi 3:1 I am about to send My messenger to clear a path before Me. Suddenly, the Lord, whom you seek, will come into His Temple. The messenger of the Covenant, whom you desire, will come to you.
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Reference REB, NIV some verses abridged[/FONT]

Jewish Midrash sources say that the messenger is the Messiah ben Joseph, who will be the leader of the 10 tribes of Israel when they return to the Land and he will instigate the rebuilding of the Temple. Jeremiah 30:21
Further on, it is mentioned again in Haggai 2:21, the shaking and overthrowing of kings and how the Lord will break the power of the heathen realms. As we see in verses 6-9 this happens before the rebuilding and therefore, the regathering of His people.
It is likely that the Lord will use the next prophesied event, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, centred on the Middle East, to ‘break the power of the heathen realms’. This will enable His people, righteous Israel to settle into the Land of Greater Israel and build the Temple.

It is not possible, at present for the Jewish State of Israel to build anything on the Temple mount.
1/ They have handed control of the area to the Muslims.
2/ Any move to start construction would trigger a war.
3/ Orthodox Jews, especially Ultra Orthodox, are forbidden or dare not go onto the Mount, for fear of stepping onto the place of the Holy of Holies.
4/ Atheist Jews [half the population] are not interested or don’t want a Temple.
Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come and work on the rebuilding of Y’hovah’s Temple. This will come about if you listen to and obey your God.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Hannibal,
loved that last phrase "Human beings that Temple." Do you always capitalize your verbs? lol. It sounds like we (EbedM too) are in agreement, I was just making sure.

thanks for the item about the fishers of men. I had not noticed or recalled.

Yeah, I'm a terrible speller, specially when it comes to Capitalizing.

That Temple in Haggiah does speak of Herod's temple because Zerrubabel began that temple.

But its not to say that it doesn't have symbolism to another Temple.

Haggai 2-=--- '' And I will fill this temple with Glory.''

Could be that the glory was Jesus walking in it.

But I don't see anyway of saying that the latter temple is not Herod's.

Its just like many Prophecies of Hezekiah relating to both of them. Or prophecies of David that relate to Jesus also.

I see a third temple that Jesus came to build and its hard for that not to be the latter temple also, but I know that I can say for sure that it was the temple Zerrubabal was building on.

 

[Interplanner]

Keras,
the question about the third temple and whether it has to be there for 2 Thess 2 is the question of whether 2 Th 2 and Mt 24 & //s are as distant future as you think. I don't. I think they are all about the immediate turmoil in Judea in the 1st century. that hideous character is the person in the middle of the problems who kills the high priest, turns the temple into a fort for a futile war and othewise makes havoc. He is named by Josephus, but that is not the point. The point is it was that temple, and it was then destroyed.

You're quite right it can't happen in the foreseeable future. In fact, OT prophecy doesn't even seem to be aware of the Muslim problem coming. It is all written in terms of what things were like after the exile. Ezek's temple is not actual, but is an attempt to say what the new era would be like.

So to summarize:
1st temple, Davids. Destroyed in 586 BC.
2nd temple, by the exiles. False start?
3rd temple, Herod's, completed shortly before Jesus; destroyed 70 AD partly through the onerous acts of the rebellious Jews--zealots--Judaizers.

The Christian community is called the living temple at the same time, and Christ referred to his own person as the temple that would be raised 3 days after being destroyed, Jn 2.

There are no Judaic particulars (temple, worship system, need for land) in the NT view of the future and 2nd coming: Rom 8, I Cor 15, 2 Pet 3, Heb 9. In fact, in terms of Hebrews, you'd start quite a tempest by reconstructing one.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

The Third Temple – Beit HaMikdesh

Ezekiel 40,41 & 42 Ezekiel measures the Temple and its precincts.
Ezekiel 43 to 48 Details of the Temple furnishings and the Land divisions, etc.

Haggai 2:6-9 In a little while, I shall shake the heavens, the earth, the sea and all the nations. I will fill this House with their treasures. This latter House will be greater than former. In this place, I shall grant prosperity and peace.
[The Second Temple was not greater than Solomon’s Temple]
Zechariah 1:16-17 These are the words of the Lord; I have returned to Jerusalem with compassion, My House is to be rebuilt there. My cities will again brim with prosperity, once again the Lord will comfort Zion and make Jerusalem the city of His choice.
2 Thess 2:3-4 The Return of Jesus cannot come until the man doomed to destruction is revealed and enthrones himself in Gods Temple, claiming to be God.
[What could be clearer than that? The Temple must be rebuilt before the Tribulation.]
Daniel 9:27....He will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings, then will set up an abomination in the Holy place.

Malachi 3:1 I am about to send My messenger to clear a path before Me. Suddenly, the Lord, whom you seek, will come into His Temple. The messenger of the Covenant, whom you desire, will come to you.
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Reference REB, NIV some verses abridged[/font]

Jewish Midrash sources say that the messenger is the Messiah ben Joseph, who will be the leader of the 10 tribes of Israel when they return to the Land and he will instigate the rebuilding of the Temple. Jeremiah 30:21
Further on, it is mentioned again in Haggai 2:21, the shaking and overthrowing of kings and how the Lord will break the power of the heathen realms. As we see in verses 6-9 this happens before the rebuilding and therefore, the regathering of His people.
It is likely that the Lord will use the next prophesied event, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, centred on the Middle East, to ‘break the power of the heathen realms’. This will enable His people, righteous Israel to settle into the Land of Greater Israel and build the Temple.

It is not possible, at present for the Jewish State of Israel to build anything on the Temple mount.
1/ They have handed control of the area to the Muslims.
2/ Any move to start construction would trigger a war.
3/ Orthodox Jews, especially Ultra Orthodox, are forbidden or dare not go onto the Mount, for fear of stepping onto the place of the Holy of Holies.
4/ Atheist Jews [half the population] are not interested or don’t want a Temple.
Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come and work on the rebuilding of Y’hovah’s Temple. This will come about if you listen to and obey your God.

The Temple is standing in Jerusalem Now.

Men from far away are building it still.

Not everyone would agree with you on Daniel 9, in fact all the early writers say that Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled by 135.

The Jews of course look at Antiochus because this is the very thing Antiochus did.

And when Jesus speaks of the abomination of desolation, he isn't speaking of an actual event of a statue standing in the Holy place, but if he did speak of this, IT HAPPENED after Jesus died.

But I would tell you that Jesus says,'' Let the reader understand.''

And this meaning is that we are the Temple and we stand in our Temple and when we bring Paganism into the Temple, it is an abomination.


As for the view which the Hebrews hold concerning this passage, I shall set it forth summarily and within a brief compass, leaving the credibility of their assertions to those who asserted them. And so let me put it in the form of a paraphrase (paraphrastikds) in order to bring out the sense more clearly. "O Daniel, know that from this day on which I now speak to thee (and that was the first year of the Darius who slew Belshazzar and transferred the Chaldean Empire to the Medes and Persians) unto the seventieth week of years (that is, four hundred and ninety years) the following events shall befall thy people in stages [literally: part by part]. First of all, God shall be appeased by thee in view of the earnest intercession thou hast just offered Him, and sin shall be canceled out and the transgression shall come to an end. For although the city at present lies deserted and the Temple lies destroyed to its very foundations [reading fundamenta for the non-existent frudamenta], so that the nation is plunged into mourning, yet within a fairly short time it shall be restored. And not only shall it come to pass within these seventy weeks that the city shall be rebuilt and the Temple restored, but also the Christ, who is the eternal righteousness, shall be born. (p. 552) And so shall the vision and the prophecy be sealed, with the result that there shall be no more any prophet to be found in Israel, and the Saint of saints shall be anointed. We read concerning Him in the Psalter: 'Because God, even Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness (695) above thy fellows' (Ps. 44:8 =45:7). And in another passage He says of Himself: 'Be ye holy, for I also am holy' (Lev. 19:2). Know therefore that from this day on which I speak to thee and make thee the promise by the word of the Lord that the nation shall return and Jerusalem shall be restored, there shall be sixty-two weeks numbered unto the time of Christ the Prince and of the perpetual desolation of the Temple; and that there shall also be seven weeks in which the two events shall take place which I have already mentioned, namely that the nation shall return and the street shall be rebuilt by Nehemiah and Ezra. And so at the end of the weeks the decree of God shall be accomplished in distressing times, when the Temple shall again be destroyed, and the city taken captive. For |109 after the sixty-two weeks the Christ shall be slain, and the nation who shall reject Him shall go out of existence" ---- or, as the Jews themselves put it, the kingdom of Christ which they imagined they would retain (G) shall not even be. And why do I speak of the slaying of Christ, and of the nation's utter forfeiture of God's help, since the Roman people were going to demolish the city and sanctuary under Vespasian, the leader who was to come? Upon his death the seven weeks or forty-nine years were complete, and after the city of Aelia was established upon the ruins of Jerusalem, Aelius Hadrian vanquished (H) the revolting Jews in their conflict with the general, Timus Rufus. It was at that time that the sacrifice and offering (ceased and) will continue to cease even unto the completion of the age, and the desolation is going to endure until the very end. We are not, say the Jews, greatly impressed by the fact that the seven weeks are mentioned first, and afterwards the sixty-two, and again a single week divided into two parts. For it is simply the idiomatic usage of the Hebrew language, as well as of antique Latin, that in quoting a figure, the small number is given first and then the larger. For example, we do not, according to good usage say in our language, "Abraham lived a hundred and seventy-five years"; on the contrary the Hebrews say, "Abraham lived five and seventy and one hundred years" (I). And so the fulfilment is not to follow the literal order of the words, but it shall be accomplished in terms of the whole sum, taken together. I am also well aware that some of the Jews assert that as for the statement about the single week, (696) "He shall establish a covenant with many (p. 553) for one week," the division is between the reigns of Vespasian and Hadrian. According to the history of Josephus, Vespasian and Titus concluded peace with the Jews for three years and six month. And the [other] three years and six months are accounted for in Hadrian's reign, when Jerusalem was completely destroyed and the Jewish nation was massacred in large groups at a time, with the result that they were even expelled from the borders of Judaea. This is what the Hebrews have to say on the subject, paying little attention to the fact that from the first year of Darius, King of the Persians, until the final overthrow of Jerusalem, which befell them under Hadrian, the period involved is a hundred and seventy-four Olympiads or six hundred ninety-six years, which total up to |110 ninety-nine Hebrew weeks plus three years ---- that being the time when Barcochebas, the leader of the Jews, was crushed and Jerusalem was demolished to the very ground. |111

 

[Interplanner]

thanks hanniabal for the quote. It seems to want to do something with the expressions except what Luke does with them, which I understand.

re 'fulfilled by 135'
BC or AD? Antiochus would be an anachronistic usage. Bar Cochba would be too late for 490.

re the AofD
If you compare Luke and Mt/Mk closely, you get an interesting timestamp. Luke says to flee when you see the city surrounded, and says why. Mt/Mk say flee when you see the AofD, and then say the same things will happen that Luke mentioned. I'm saying this to show it is a timestamp. This was right when the zealots/Galileans took control and made the temple a fortress. It doesn't mean the Roman surrounding was the AofD but it shows the timing. These rebellious guys were alluded to in Dan 8, where the expression for AofD is actually 'the rebellion that desolates.' So you might think of Dan 8 and 9 together, as visions go.

re 'let the reader...'
Jesus used 3 expressions from Dan: the unequalled distress
2, the end like a flood
3, the AofD, actually '...that causes desolation'
He uses them about these events of 66+. It is my belief that this places their meaning in a category more confirmed than all the other attempts to 'get' Daniel. There aren't many other NT quotes, and certainly none with the clarity of actual events to anchor them. which puts them in a different category from other guesses about kings and figures with 4 kinds of imagery to them, etc.

 

[Codger]

The Third Temple – Beit HaMikdesh

It is not possible, at present for the Jewish State of Israel to build anything on the Temple mount.
1/ They have handed control of the area to the Muslims.
2/ Any move to start construction would trigger a war.
3/ Orthodox Jews, especially Ultra Orthodox, are forbidden or dare not go onto the Mount, for fear of stepping onto the place of the Holy of Holies.
4/ Atheist Jews [half the population] are not interested or don’t want a Temple.
Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come and work on the rebuilding of Y’hovah’s Temple. This will come about if you listen to and obey your God.

They will build this new temple so they can return to the Old Covenant practices once again? Never - God has already thwarted the rebuilding of the temple on four occasions in history. And what they today call "the temple mount" is in reality the fortress Antonia because the real temple tower (450 feet high) was completely destroyed by the Romans - just as Jesus said it would be. No God only has one covenant today - the New Covenant.

Where are they going to build this new temple? On the 35 acre site of the fortress Antonia? Ezekiel's temple is about a mile square this is greater than the city of Jerusalem. Also the area for the priests and Levites is around 40 x 50 miles. This is apocalyptic language and if you try to twist it into a literal interpretation you have really big problems.