Ephesians 2:8-9

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I have a question regarding the "gift of God" that is mentioned in Ephesians 2:8.

What is the "gift" that is being referred to in this verse? Is grace the gift or is the gift faith?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)

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BG
 

ClothedInGrace

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I have a question regarding the "gift of God" that is mentioned in Ephesians 2:8.

What is the "gift" that is being referred to in this verse? Is grace the gift or is the gift faith?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)

Thanks,
BG
All of it: The grace, salvation, and faith.
 
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MWood

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The gift is salvation. Because of Gods grace He offers salvation if we have faith in Jesus being the Son of God, and in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. He offers this gift of salvation so no one could brag about earning their salvation on their own without God.
 
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twin1954

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The gift is salvation. Because of Gods grace He offers salvation if we have faith in Jesus being the Son of God, and in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. He offers this gift of salvation so no one could brag about earning their salvation on their own without God.
Nowhere is the Gospel of salvation mentioned as an offer it is always spoken of as a gift. There is a difference.

If I offer you a million dollars it becomes your when you take it. The whole thing depends on you making it yours.

If I give you a million dollars it becomes yours when I give it to you. The whole thing depends on me. Therefore the salvation presented in the Gospel is all of God's grace and it along with faith is a gift not an offer.

If it is an offer then everything depends on you but if it is a gift everything depends on God alone.

We receive a gift passively as a glass receives water. It does nothing but be filled.

We receive an offer actively and take part in the possession of it. That is not how the Scriptures speak of the gift of salvation.
 
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MWood

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Nowhere is the Gospel of salvation mentioned as an offer it is always spoken of as a gift. There is a difference.

If I offer you a million dollars it becomes your when you take it. The whole thing depends on you making it yours.

If I give you a million dollars it becomes yours when I give it to you. The whole thing depends on me. Therefore the salvation presented in the Gospel is all of God's grace and it along with faith is a gift not an offer.

If it is an offer then everything depends on you but if it is a gift everything depends on God alone.

We receive a gift passively as a glass receives water. It does nothing but be filled.

We receive an offer actively and take part in the possession of it. That is not how the Scriptures speak of the gift of salvation.
Now twin, you and I both know that this gift of God will be accepted by a few and rejected by many. God will not force this gift on anyone. He holds it out to everyone to either accept or reject. In this manner it is an offer to anyone who wishes to come to eternal life.
 
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Leevo

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I have a question regarding the "gift of God" that is mentioned in Ephesians 2:8.

What is the "gift" that is being referred to in this verse? Is grace the gift or is the gift faith?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)

Thanks,
BG


It is salvation that is being referred to.

It is made more clear in the ESV rendering "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
 
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twin1954

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Now twin, you and I both know that this gift of God will be accepted by a few and rejected by many. God will not force this gift on anyone. He holds it out to everyone to either accept or reject. In this manner it is an offer to anyone who wishes to come to eternal life.
No God does not force anyone against their will, that is a straw man, He makes them willing. He doesn't offer the gift to them He gives it to them once He has made them desire it with all that is in them. He does so by giving them life so that they can see their need of Christ and understand that they are without hope apart from Him.

What he doesn't do is offer them a chance to be saved if only they will accept His offer.
 
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Patmos

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http://wordoffaith.cc/salvation-offer

I Corinthians 1:21, 25
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Deuteronomy 30:19
"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;"

The beauty of the Bible is that it is so simple. Anyone can understand it by accepting it as truth by faith. As indicated in the scriptures above (Ephesians 2:8 and Romans 10:9), accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life is a step of faith. Hebrews 11:6 says, that it is impossible to please God without faith. Jesus, in John 20:29, says those who have not seen and still believe are blessed.

God has given you the choice to believe and have life, or not to believe and have death. In so much as He urges you to choose life through Jesus, He will not force you. He loves you enough to give you a choice. He protects a decision to choose life just as He does a decision to choose death.
 
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Patmos

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If I offer you a million dollars it becomes your when you take it. The whole thing depends on you making it yours.

If I give you a million dollars it becomes yours when I give it to you. The whole thing depends on me. Therefore the salvation presented in the Gospel is all of God's grace and it along with faith is a gift not an offer.

If it is an offer then everything depends on you but if it is a gift everything depends on God alone.

We receive a gift passively as a glass receives water. It does nothing but be filled.

We receive an offer actively and take part in the possession of it. That is not how the Scriptures speak of the gift of salvation.

I think the fundamental problem here is the all or nothing presuppositions.

We all know that a gift can be refused - receiving is NOT just passive, in a theological setting this is saying God is not omnipotent.

Two men jump overboard their sinking ship. They are cold and tired, near death. A rescue boat comes. They both wave,shout and attract the attention of the rescue boat which comes along side. One man is hauled aboard and lives. The other is left and dies. Did the man who lives do anything meritous to save himself given that his actions were no different from the one who perished ?

Years back an air liner crashed on take, ditching into the frozen Potomac river. The pilot is in the water and REFUSES the offer of salvation, passing the opportunity to someone else!
 
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twin1954

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Are you word of faith? If so then you are not allowed to debate in the Baptist forum.

I Corinthians 1:21, 25
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Typical Arminian proof texting. Why don't you give the context, especially the part that speaks very clearly that it is God that chooses and the last two verses in the chapter that clearly tell us that it is of God that believers are in Christ Jesus so that no one can boast. Here I will give it for you.
(1Co 1:21) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


(1Co 1:22) For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:


(1Co 1:23) But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;


(1Co 1:24) But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


(1Co 1:25) Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


(1Co 1:26) For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:


(1Co 1:27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


(1Co 1:28) And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:


(1Co 1:29) That no flesh should glory in his presence.


(1Co 1:30) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


(1Co 1:31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


Notice the underlined portions that clearly tell us that God has chosen some and not others and that it is of Him that we , that is believers, are in Christ Jesus.




Deuteronomy 30:19
"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;"
This is another of the Arminian proof texts but all it actually shows is the insanity of unbelief. God gives a command that all believe but they neither will nor can. It is insane.

The beauty of the Bible is that it is so simple. Anyone can understand it by accepting it as truth by faith.
So Paul lied to us in 1Cor. 2:14?
(1Co 2:14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Yes the words of the Scriptures can be understood but the message cannot. It takes the Spirit to open up the message. The Pharisees had an unmatched knowledge of the words of the Scriptures and missed Christ because of it.

Paul tells us in Eph. 4:8 and 11, the parenthetical statement removed which is grammatically correct to do, that pastor/teachers are a gift from Christ to His church. Why is that? Because they are called and gifted to understand the Scriptures and to preach the true Gospel of the sovereign grace of God in Christ Jesus alone. They are to explain the message of the Scriptures because it takes the Spirit opening them up.

(Eph 4:8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


(Eph 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;


(Eph 4:12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


As indicated in the scriptures above (Ephesians 2:8 and Romans 10:9), accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life is a step of faith. Hebrews 11:6 says, that it is impossible to please God without faith.
You mean as indicated by your use of proof texts in order to support your pretext.

It is true that there is no salvation apart from faith in Christ that is Scriptural but where does that faith come from that is the question you must answer.
Jesus, in John 20:29, says those who have not seen and still believe are blessed.
Again you take the words out of their context. The Lord Jesus after His resurrection was speaking to Thomas who doubted Him. He told Thomas that those who had not seen Him in His resurrection body and yet believed were blessed. The passage that you ought to have given is :
(1Pe 1:8) Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:


(1Pe 1:9) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.



God has given you the choice to believe and have life, or not to believe and have death. In so much as He urges you to choose life through Jesus, He will not force you. He loves you enough to give you a choice.
Prove that through the Scriptures. It simply cannot be done. What you have is a presupposition that you twist the Scriptures into supporting.
He protects a decision to choose life just as He does a decision to choose death.
Again you are making a statement that is your presupposition but nowhere supported by the Scriptures. If you can find a verse that says this where is it?
 
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twin1954

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I think the fundamental problem here is the all or nothing presuppositions.
It isn't all or nothing it is simple definitions of words and the difference between them. Why use the word gift if an offer is intended?

We all know that a gift can be refused - receiving is NOT just passive,
It is actually both. In the passive sense we receive life and faith in Christ as a glass receives water. The glass is nothing but a receptacle that takes no part in its own filling. After we have received life and faith in Christ passively we receive Him actively as though we take the glass of water for ourselves and drink.
in a theological setting this is saying God is not omnipotent.
Nonsense!

As for a gift being refused it is impossible. It wouldn't be a gift if it could be. You can refuse an offer to be sure. Certainly you can do whatever you want with the gift once it has been given, made yours by the giver, but only an absolutely insane idiot would not use the gift once they have been made aware of their need for it and its beauty. Your rebuttal is without merit.

Two men jump overboard their sinking ship. They are cold and tired, near death. A rescue boat comes. They both wave,shout and attract the attention of the rescue boat which comes along side. One man is hauled aboard and lives. The other is left and dies. Did the man who lives do anything meritous to save himself given that his actions were no different from the one who perished ?
Is this supposed to be an example of what Calvinists believe? If so you really don't have a clue what we believe. The Scriptures are very clear, especially the Lord Jesus in His actions, that all who come to Him in faith will receive mercy. He never turned anyone down who actually desired Him. If both men had wanted to be saved they would have been.

A better analogy of the Arminian view would be both men in the water and the lifeboat comes along and offers them both life if they will only get themselves into the boat. One chooses to do so and the other does not. The one who is saved actually saved himself by his choosing to do something that the one who perished did not. He merited his salvation by his choice.

Years back an air liner crashed on take, ditching into the frozen Potomac river. The pilot is in the water and REFUSES the offer of salvation, passing the opportunity to someone else!
IIRC the pilot was saved as well. He didn't refuse the offer he simply allowed someone to go ahead of him. Poor analogy again I am afraid.
 
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twin1954

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Salvation by grace through faith is the gift, not faith itself.

The speaker is telling us what he thinks but does not take into account that the neuter "this" primarily is used to refer to all that precedes in the statement. That is why it is in the neuter. If it only was intended to refer to one of the nouns its case and gender would agree.
 
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