Does the typical Southern Baptist church believe God still heals?

[mikedsjr]

This is a straw man fallacy regarding my view. It is an absolutely false view of what I believe. Would you please quit building this false view of my theology.

1 Corinthians 14:26 is very clear that the gifts of the Spirit are manifest in the church gathering:

Oz, I listed chapters talking of the the Holy Spirit working in non-church settings. Paul healed a man in someones home in Acts 28. Was it a spectacle? Of some sort. The island people began bringing their sick to him and he healed them. There is no church here. There is no sign of massive conversion in the text that turned them into a church where Paul was THEN able to heal.

If there were camera, I'm sure it would have been everywhere. But . If modern forensic scientist were around back in Paul's day, there would be no denying a miracle took place with the people in Scripture. Every lip would be shut, except those who hate God with great venom. There is not one case of a instant healer known and proved to come from a church today.

I believe God's heals. I believe prayer to God can work miracles, giving God deems it for his glory. But I also believe God's miracle worker today are doctors. And they are an amazing miracle worker God has given the world.

 

[OzSpen]

It was a question. A simple one, at that. Please answer.

We can't have a logical discussion when you use the fallacious reasoning of a straw man logical fallacy about my point of view.

 

[OzSpen]

I believe God's heals. I believe prayer to God can work miracles, giving God deems it for his glory. But I also believe God's miracle worker today are doctors. And they are an amazing miracle worker God has given the world.

Would you please provide biblical evidence for a medical profession being 'God's miracle worker today'?

 

[Hammster]

We can't have a logical discussion when you use the fallacious reasoning of a straw man logical fallacy about my point of view.

Once again, I asked a question. It appears you like to make statements and avoid any sort of defense about those statements. Not sure if that's a logical fallacy, but it sure is avoidance.

 

[OzSpen]

Once again, I asked a question. It appears you like to make statements and avoid any sort of defense about those statements. Not sure if that's a logical fallacy, but it sure is avoidance.

Your straw man fallacy about my view continues, whether by question or direct statement. If you present one more straw man fallacy about my view, I will not respond to you because of your fallacious reasoning. Rational conversation is prevented when you use logical fallacies.

 

[Hammster]

Your straw man fallacy about my view continues, whether by question or direct statement. If you present one more straw man fallacy about my view, I will not respond to you because of your fallacious reasoning. Rational conversation is prevented when you use logical fallacies.

It is a question based on what you said. Directly relevant. If it's a straw man, please show how. Otherwise, please answer the question.

 

[OzSpen]

It is a question based on what you said. Directly relevant. If it's a straw man, please show how. Otherwise, please answer the question.

I've told you a number of times in this thread that rational conversation becomes impossible when you use a straw man fallacy of my view. But you are not listening.

 

[Hammster]

I've told you a number of times in this thread that rational conversation becomes impossible when you use a straw man fallacy of my view. But you are not listening.

Your claims of me using a straw man are unfounded. I think it's clear to everyone reading this thread.

 

[mikedsjr]

Would you please provide biblical evidence for a medical profession being 'God's miracle worker today'?

I can do it about as quick as you can name a person with the gift of instant healing today.

 

[OzSpen]

I can do it about as quick as you can name a person with the gift of instant healing today.

Mike,

I've already provided the biblical evidence for the 'gift of healings'. I'm still waiting for your biblical evidence for your theology of, 'I also believe God's miracle worker today are doctors. And they are an amazing miracle worker God has given the world'.

I have a great respect for medical doctors. I have a lot of personal experience in this regard.

I write as one who has had 5 open-heart, valve replacement surgeries. My life is continuing and is being sustained, but I have in no way been healed of my rheumatic heart condition through the valve replacement surgeries. I am being sustained by daily medication, one of them being a very dangerous, but needed, medication - warfarin.

I have an ICD (implanted cardiac defibrillator) to control my slow and fast heart rhythm with an electrical charge, thanks to a $48,000 implanted device. But I in no way have miraculous healing through the medical profession.

My epileptic seizures are controlled by the medication, but the medical profession has not helped me to be healed of epilepsy.

Therefore, your pushing for the miraculous healing of the medical profession is far from the truth in my life.

God has not chosen to heal me supernaturally when the elders of the church prayed for me in accordance with James 5:14-18.

So please don't give me this line that 'I also believe God's miracle worker today are doctors. And they are an amazing miracle worker God has given the world'.

Sincerely in Christ,
Oz

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Admin Hat...

This thread has undergone a cleanup.

Mark
CF Admin

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I'm trying to figure this out. Baptists typically don't believe in Miracles, but God still can heal people, maybe even miraculously. The bible never said God would cease to do that. I'm wondering what the SBC says about this. I love baptist churches and their beliefs but I don't know much about their beliefs on the spirit.

Southern Baptists generally believe the gifts such as instant miraculous healing are very rare these days, and were common in the apostolic age as a sign of the truth of the gospel. We believe prayer for the sick is beneficial for them. But because Southern Baptists are very strong on the independence of each local congregation, you can probably find a local congregation somewhere that would endorse most anything on this subject.

 

[OzSpen]

Southern Baptists generally believe the gifts such as instant miraculous healing are very rare these days, and were common in the apostolic age as a sign of the truth of the gospel. We believe prayer for the sick is beneficial for them. But because Southern Baptists are very strong on the independence of each local congregation, you can probably find a local congregation somewhere that would endorse most anything on this subject.

Paul,

Try telling that message to the people of the Central African Republic, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Bhutan, India, East Timor and Vanuatu.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Paul,

Try telling that message to the people of the Central African Republic, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Bhutan, India, East Timor and Vanuatu.

I'm not clear what you mean here.

 

[OzSpen]

I'm not clear what you mean here.

If you were living in the Central Africa Republic, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Bhutan, India, East Timor and Vanuatu where access to first class medical treatment is rare or sub-standard, you may find it much easier to investigate what the Bible says about the gift of healings and praying for the sick.

We in the West have become so dependent on expert medical care that the supernatural of God can be relegated to the backwaters because, to use your words, 'Southern Baptists generally believe the gifts such as instant miraculous healing are very rare these days'.

The bigger issue is: What does the Bible say? I'm still waiting for another poster to provide details of biblical support for the medical profession today being examples of the miraculous in healing.

 

[Hammster]

Southern Baptists generally believe the gifts such as instant miraculous healing are very rare these days, and were common in the apostolic age as a sign of the truth of the gospel. We believe prayer for the sick is beneficial for them. But because Southern Baptists are very strong on the independence of each local congregation, you can probably find a local congregation somewhere that would endorse most anything on this subject.

I think, in general, it's safe to say that while we believe that God still heals, having folks with the gift of healing is not common today, if there are even any.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

If you were living in the Central Africa Republic, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Bhutan, India, East Timor and Vanuatu where access to first class medical treatment is rare or sub-standard, you may find it much easier to investigate what the Bible says about the gift of healings and praying for the sick.

We in the West have become so dependent on expert medical care that the supernatural of God can be relegated to the backwaters because, to use your words, 'Southern Baptists generally believe the gifts such as instant miraculous healing are very rare these days'.

The bigger issue is: What does the Bible say? I'm still waiting for another poster to provide details of biblical support for the medical profession today being examples of the miraculous in healing.

Its one thing to ask (a) what the Bible says, its another thing to ask (b) what Southern Baptists generally hold, and its another thing to ask (c) what is the actual status concerning spiritual gifts of healing in the Christian community.

Each of those things would be investigated differently. I spoke as a Southern Baptist, reporting my opinion about our consensus of opinion on such things. That's to help with option (b) which is the thread topic after all.

You want to broaden the quest for information about (a) and (c)? Don't confuse them as necessarily being the same.

We might also inquire as to the success rate witch doctors have been enjoying in the communities you mentioned. I'm sure you will find that its easier to make a living being a witch doctor where modern medicine is not available. But are they healing the sick?

Beware of the "last tried must have worked" syndrome. Bodies can heal without medicine and people are trying things to get well all the time and so when the body heals itself they can mistakenly give credit to whatever they had worked up to next in their efforts.

 

[OzSpen]

Its one thing to ask (a) what the Bible says, its another thing to ask (b) what Southern Baptists generally hold, and its another thing to ask (c) what is the actual status concerning spiritual gifts of healing in the Christian community.

Each of those things would be investigated differently. I spoke as a Southern Baptist, reporting my opinion about our consensus of opinion on such things. That's to help with option (b) which is the thread topic after all.

You want to broaden the quest for information about (a) and (c)? Don't confuse them as necessarily being the same.

We might also inquire as to the success rate witch doctors have been enjoying in the communities you mentioned. I'm sure you will find that its easier to make a living being a witch doctor where modern medicine is not available. But are they healing the sick?

Beware of the "last tried must have worked" syndrome. Bodies can heal without medicine and people are trying things to get well all the time and so when the body heals itself they can mistakenly give credit to whatever they had worked up to next in their efforts.

Paul,

I'll leave it to you who are Southern Baptists to discuss the 'healing' views. There are many other Baptists around the world and I'm one of them, who have a biblical understanding of healing.

I don't know what caused you to go to the "last tried must have worked" syndrome in your response to me as my replies have not in any way approached that kind of thinking.

 

[4x4toy]

In your view of healing, does every congregation have one person with the gift of healing?

I say yes .. But the question should be , Have we sought after these gifts ? Are there those with these gifts that remain disobedient or in unbelief ? Is there one in the community who hasn't been outreached to ?
God wants us to seek and find , Proverb 25:2 .. In James is the simplist of scripture for healing .. How many have asked for anointing with oil and prayer in your church , even then it's just an act of faith and God still decides when and if .. Just do it .. Then keep on doing it and leave it up to God

 

[Hammster]

I say yes .. But the question should be , Have we sought after these gifts ? Are there those with these gifts that remain disobedient or in unbelief ? Is there one in the community who hasn't been outreached to ?
God wants us to seek and find , Proverb 25:2 .. In James is the simplist of scripture for healing .. How many have asked for anointing with oil and prayer in your church , even then it's just an act of faith and God still decides when and if .. Just do it .. Then keep on doing it and leave it up to God

I think you are conflating healing in the church with the gift of healing. (Thanks for answering, btw). If one has the gift of healing, they can use it without the anointing of oil, and such.