Does God have a beginning therefore he has an end ?

[drich0150]

what does this has to do with my question ?

i asked about specific thought here "i am the beginning and the end", if you started read the whole thread, you would have been noticed that i agree that God is the first and the last. (first because nothing before him , Last because nothing after him)

we are talking here about the beginning of God and the end of God.
he is the one said " from the everlasting to the everlasting" means God has no beginning and has no end.
while Jesus said " I am the beginning and the end".
please stick with the subject itself. "the beginning and the end"
who to believe ? !! God or Jesus ? !! because they are supposed to be one not contradicting with each other ? !!

notice that most of people participated in this thread approved that God has no beginning and therefore he has no end.
but now you twisted the verses while you started talking about " the first and the last" but our main issue is "the beginning and the end"

i need explanation for this :
1- while God said I am from everlasting to everlasting.
2- Jesus said I am the beginning and i am the end, in addition he is the son of God.
3- then Salem angel is without a beginning and without an end and he is equal to the son of God.

See you you would have taken the time to address mt first post I could have saved you from putting egg on your face in this one.

Your "translation" abilities all seem to be based on what the English meaning of the words you have highlighted. You are aware that the two texts that you are comparing were not written in the same language are you not? Plus you do know that neither were originally recorded in the English right? If not then how can you account for any "gaps" in translation? Do you have access to a lexicon and concordance?

If so most if not ALL of the contradictions you guys like to bring up can be resolved by simply going back to the original text and getting a better understanding of the word that has been translated.

If English is not you primary language then you will know not all the words in your original tongue will not completely translate to English. Not to mention there are gaps in syntax and grammar. While the content of the Bible remains true, one must keep in mind he is only reading a translation and not the original text. So When An Apparent Contradiction Comes Up You Must Examine The Original Text To See What Was Actually Intended. The bible is not written to give commentary. Or if you will the bible was not translated to decide for you what a passage meant in the original text. It is the closest to a word for word translation that our 3 languages will allow. In this some of the meaning is lost. That is why things like lexicons and concordances were provided to help the faithful understand what was meant in the original text.

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

"Everlasting to Everlasting" seems to be pretty self-explanatory. God has always been and will always be.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

what does this has to do with my question ?

Well I though you were trying to quote revelation stating that Jesus has an end. But Jehovah God also says that of himself, and we know he is eternal. Further more I know you as a Muslum do not believe that Jesus is God. But when Jesus calls himself the first and the last I used it as an opportunity to point out that it is a reference to the old testiment where Jehovah calls himself by the same name, i.e. "The first and the last". You might missunderstand english but both the Old Testiment verses and the ones in revelation mean exactly the same thing. End, and last have the essentually the same meanings in Hebrew and Greek. End in revelation can actually mean uttermost, it is certainly not to be translated a point of death of Jesus. The actual word in the greek is from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal), the point aimed at as a limit. From what I gather you were meaning that Jesus will die, I could be wrong? But that is not what the bible says.

Rev 5:13 And every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things are in them, heard I saying, Unto him that sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honor, and the glory, and the dominion, for ever and ever.

The above verse says the Lamb will exist for ever and ever. Any study of the bible shows, the Lamb is Jesus. Lambs were sacrificed for sin, Christians know Jesus died for their sins as a scrificial lamb. When John the baptist saw Jesus coming to him he said "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world". The original term lamb comes from the old testiment where Moses sacrified lambs as sin offerings, which he said was a picture or a description of what God had planned in heaven. God does not sacrifice animals in heaven for sins like Moses did, but he came into the world to be a man and offer his body as a sacrifice for sin.

Why don't you believe Moses? Let me ask you this question, what was Moses doing offering sacrifices. Why did the Jews offer animal sacrifices. Moses said it was revealing what was happening in heaven. Who is the sacrifice for your sins?

Christianity is consistent with Moses, we have a sacrifice for our sins. Why don't you?

 

[Habakk]

Rather than think God lived for eternity passed and will live for eternity future we may need to reorder this argument.

Start with God. Genesis 1:1 “in the beginning God…” now we can say eternity lives within God rather than the other way around. Scientists are beginning to realise that time itself had a beginning. Hence time and space is a created thing for our benefit and God himself is above all created things.

God can truly say he is the first and the last, I am that I am, and such biblical truths because he not only is but he embodies such things.

 

[FredVB]

Yahweh is eternal, as can be seen from many Bible passages, and has no beginning or end. Yahweh God is the Beginning and the End, because he is the beginning of all things of the creation and he is the end to them. Nothing in the creation has the self-existent nature of the Creator, who alone is truly eternal.

 

[Usama.Egyptian]

Well I though you were trying to quote revelation stating that Jesus has an end. But Jehovah God also says that of himself, and we know he is eternal. Further more I know you as a Muslum do not believe that Jesus is God. But when Jesus calls himself the first and the last I used it as an opportunity to point out that it is a reference to the old testiment where Jehovah calls himself by the same name, i.e. "The firsat and the last". You might missunderstand english but both the Old Testiment verses and the ones in revelation mean exactly the same thing. End, and last have the essentually the same meanings in Hebrew and Greek. End in revelation can actually mean uttermost, it is certainly not to be translated a point of death of Jesus. The actual word in the greek is from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal), the point aimed at as a limit. From what I gather you were meaning that Jesus will die, I could be wrong? But that is not what the bible says.

Rev 5:13 And every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things are in them, heard I saying, Unto him that sitteth on the throne,

and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honor, and the glory, and the dominion, for ever and ever.

The above verse says the Lamb will exist for ever and ever. Any study of the bible shows, the Lamb is Jesus. Lambs were sacrificed for sin, Christians know Jesus died for their sins as a scrificial lamb. When John the baptist saw Jesus coming to him he said "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world". The original term lamb comes from the old testiment where Moses sacrified lambs as sin offerings, which he said was a picture or a description of what God had planned in heaven. God does not sacrifice animals in heaven for sins like Moses did, but he came into the world to be a man and offer his body as a sacrifice for sin.

Why don't you believe Moses? Let me ask you this question, what was Moses doing offering sacrifices. Why did the Jews offer animal sacrifices. Moses said it was revealing what was happening in heaven. Who is the sacrifice for your sins?

Christianity is consistent with Moses, we have a sacrifice for our sins. Why don't you?

brother
1- according to the bible God doesn't change. so he already said i am the first and the last but he never said i am the beginning and the end, while Jesus himself "God in flesh" said that new character for God which proves to us that God has a beginning and an end and it contradicts with the "from everlasting to everlasting. (God doesn't change)
6. "For I am the Lord, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob. Malachi : 3

2- to be honest with you the idea you liken Jesus with a lamb "an animal" makes me disgusted really, it's just how dare you liken a great prophet, a great man came from the Lord with the truth and great great wonderful miracles to a unclean animal that can't even clean himself. i am sorry but this idea makes me so offended and i don't want to talk about this idea again please.
(this is simply the purpose of a lamb or a goat is to ask forgiveness from God and this lamb or goat will go for poor people , God won't eat meat it's simply another way of charity to help others and forgive others, this is the wisdom of God )
4. Or if a person swears, speaking thoughtlessly with his lips to do evil or to do good, whatever it is that a man may pronounce by an oath, and he is unaware of it--when he realizes it, then he shall be guilty in any of these matters.5. And it shall be, when he is guilty in any of these matters, that he shall confess that he has sinned in that thing; 6. and he shall bring his trespass offering to the Lord for his sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats as a sin offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin. Leviticus 5

 

[Usama.Egyptian]

Yahweh is eternal, as can be seen from many Bible passages, and has no beginning or end. Yahweh God is the Beginning and the End, because he is the beginning of all things of the creation and he is the end to them. Nothing in the creation has the self-existent nature of the Creator, who alone is truly eternal.

see that part colored with red within your comment.

you are making God equal to creations ? !!!
simply read this verse :
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Since I try not to make a habit of engaging in prooftext battles (it's basically pointless), would you be kind enough Usama, to get to the heart of the issue you would like to discuss?

Is there a point of orthodox Christian Christology you would like clarified, perhaps some of us could help you understand our theology and how we receive our Scriptures as informing and formating our Christological convictions?

An exchange of battling prooftexts simply will not foster decent inter-religious dialogue and conversation. It'll go no where.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Habakk]

great

all answers saying God has no beginning so he also doesn't have an end.
biker wrote :
wpage wrote :
dewba wrote :
thank you dewba such great idea here.

i totally agree with all what u have just mentioned God has no beginning no end. From Everlasting to Everlasting.
i totally also agree with "the First and the Last",

now let us read this :

Revelation 1
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Revelation 21
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.


Revelation 22
3 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


the question again : Does God have a beginning therefore he has an end ? !!

The statement in the book of Exodus that God made about himself “I am that I am” is very difficult to translate from the Hebrew. Some scholars suggest it can be interpreted to imply such statements as I am becoming what I have always been and I am what I shall become. It implies that God changes without change. I would think that its implication lies in the fact that God does not change but that his will unfolds. From God’s perspective there would be no change but from our perspective we would see change as his will unfolds.

The book of Revelation (Greek Apocalypses) means the unveiling and the book is about the revelation (or unveiling) of Jesus. Jesus being ascended to the father and part of the Godhead never changes but the book presents him as alpha and omega (beginning and end) because he is unveiled to us.

 

[FredVB]

see that part colored with red within your comment.

you are making God equal to creations ? !!!

22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

You are totally misreading my meaning! Yahweh God, the self-existent Creator, is distinct from the creation that is is dependent on him. This dependence is why the self-existent Creator, infinite and eternal, is the beginning and the end for all things of the creation. Understand, the dependence is not union or equality at all.