Difficult Questions For Futurists To Answer

[franklin]

New Heaven and New Earth

QUESTION #1
Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire, and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed along with it, why, when the "New Earth" or "New Jerusalem" comes, will the nations need healing? (Revelation 22:2) How can you heal something that is already dead and burned? If the New Jeruslam is the saved of all ages, when all things have ended and we have embarked into eternity; when sin, death, Hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire; all evil has been disposed of, sin has been finally purged; there is no more sickness, no more hunger or thirst; the former things shall not be remembered or even come to mind; why would they need healing if they are now in eternal bliss?

QUESTION #2
Why would the gates of this city be left open if everything outside this city is destroyed (Revelation.21:25)? If everyone outside these gates were burned up, and there is nobody left alive outside these gates, why are there people still entering through the gates into the city after the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven (Revelation 21:24)?

QUESTION #3
If, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will be no more death, why does the Bible say there WILL still be physical death in the New Heaven and New Earth (Isaiah 65:20, 66:24)?

QUESTION #4
If, after the New Heaven and New Earth come, there will be no more sin, why does Isaiah say there WILL still be sin (Isaiah 65:20)? Even Jesus Christ said there would still be sin in the next age (Matthew 12:32, Revelation 22:15). And Revelation says that, after the New Jerusalem comes, there will still be sinners (Revelation 21:27).

QUESTION #5
If the New Jerusalem is a physical place, and it will physically come down to earth, why did Jesus say it would not come with observation, and that people would not say "look here or look there" (Luke 17:20-21)? Why not say "look" if it will come with observation? Can it possibly be because it will be a spiritual kingdom and not a physical one?

 

[LightBearer]

Franklin: You do like to throw the cat among the pigeons.

Although very good and thought provoking questions.  The answers should be quite interesting.

 

[judge]

Hey franklin!

The only way I could understand this is if the new heavens and the new earth are here now. So I suppose they are here now.

 

peace to you!

 

[Phoenix]

Franklin,

Are you a full preterist ?

 

[Duane Morse]

When this earth was first created there was no sorrow, death, or sin either.
This is a new heaven and earth that we will inhabit. The heaven and earth of the angels. And at first, like here, there will be no sin, death or sorrow.
But, things change, just like here.

And at the end of that earth's age, there is a great battle and Satan and the angels that follow him are cast down, just as at the end of this earth age there is a great battle and the world is destroyed by fire.

It begins again, but at a different level.
And the ending is the beginning.

 

[Freodin]

Difficult questions for a futurist, easy ones for an atheist:

Because Isaiah had other views about the future than John.
Who would have thought that - two humans having differnet thoughts about a possible future!

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Duane Morse
When this earth was first created there was no sorrow, death, or sin either. This is a new heaven and earth that we will inhabit. The heaven and earth of the angels. And at first, like here, there will be no sin, death or sorrow. But, things change, just like here. And at the end of that earth's age, there is a great battle and Satan and the angels that follow him are cast down, just as at the end of this earth age there is a great battle and the world is destroyed by fire. It begins again, but at a different level.
And the ending is the beginning.

Hi Duane,  Futurists teach that the new heaven and earth of Revelation 21 and the new Jerusalem of Revelation 22 is the saved of all ages, the bride of Christ at the end of the millennium, when all things have ended and we have embarked into eternity: They have entered eternity; sin, death, hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire. Remember that all evil has been disposed of, God has healed the Church of her ills, sin has been finally purged from her so that only a grandiose description of her can truly tell of her beauty. The futurists teach that the earth will be a physical paradise at this time, but is that what the Scriptures say? If one adopts the preterist view, the explanations are quite easy. Does the New Covenant gospel age end, or is it truly an everlasting covenant as Hebrews 13:20 says? "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant"...  It is obviously a never ending age. The new age, or the new world, will never end (Isa.45:17 Eph.3:21, Ecc.1:4). We are presently living in the new covenant age that has no last days.

 

 

[Duane Morse]

Well, there is still the possibility of sin in heaven, else the angels would not rebel or be cast down.
That is where we are going, and we are not there yet.
And if the angels can sin, why not us?
And Jesus spoke of the last days, and they have not happened yet.
We may have a new covenant based on grace, but it may not be the last covenant.

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Duane Morse
And Jesus spoke of the last days, and they have not happened yet. We may have a new covenant based on grace, but it may not be the last covenant.

Duane, If we are presently living in the New Covenant eternal age, how can it have "last days" ?  The fulfillment of Christ's kingdom came in AD70, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Old Covenant age in 70 A.D. , entering in the New Covenant age which is that last Covenant your thinking about.
 

 

[Duane Morse]

This age is not eternal. We have yet to experience the fall of the anti-Christ, the second coming of the Lord, the first resurrection, the thousand year reign, the destruction by fire, and the new heaven and earth.

Who says this is the last of the covenants?
Did anyone expect a new covenant just before Jesus was born?

The covenant of Jesus is everlasting, but that extends from before time until after time. And that includes all the covenants of God with Man.

 

[Phoenix]

The fulfillment of Christ's kingdom came in AD70, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Old Covenant age in 70 A.D. , entering in the New Covenant age which is that last Covenant your thinking about.

So you are a full preterist Franklin ? Have you checked out GW's messageboard www.preteristvision.org ?

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Phoenix
So you are a full preterist Franklin ? Have you checked out GW's messageboard www.preteristvision.org ?

Phoenix, yes, I have been to his site and yes I am a fullPret, what is your position?

 

[Phoenix]

I would have to say Franklin that i'm somewhere along the lines of a very partial preterist. For me, to accept a full pret position, by reading the Bible alone, it just isn't there. I dont mean that in any kind of a bad way, i think that to accept a full position, you have to look beyond Scripture and really have an understanding of the time ( 2000 years ago ) and how the audience of the time would understand prophecy and Scripture. I'm just not knowledgable enough to do that. The statements repeated time and time again, such as .. soon, this generation and on and on i think are very compelling. Interesting stuff.


Regards

 

[Future Man]

Two very experienced debators.

Pre-trib VS Posttrib.

http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3070&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Very good.

God bless--FM

 

[tericl2]

Originally posted by franklin
New Heaven and New Earth

QUESTION #1
Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire, and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed along with it, why, when the "New Earth" or "New Jerusalem" comes, will the nations need healing? (Revelation 22:2) How can you heal something that is already dead and burned? If the New Jeruslam is the saved of all ages, when all things have ended and we have embarked into eternity; when sin, death, Hades and Satan have all been cast into the lake of fire; all evil has been disposed of, sin has been finally purged; there is no more sickness, no more hunger or thirst; the former things shall not be remembered or even come to mind; why would they need healing if they are now in eternal bliss?

See Rev 21:5. Everything will be made new. And since it says just before that that God dwelling will be among men then we have to assume that a new race of men will be made also. So, the tree will produce fruit to keep them from death and pain, just as it did in the Garden of Eden.

QUESTION #2
Why would the gates of this city be left open if everything outside this city is destroyed (Revelation.21:25)? If everyone outside these gates were burned up, and there is nobody left alive outside these gates, why are there people still entering through the gates into the city after the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven (Revelation 21:24)?

See above answer.

QUESTION #3
If, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will be no more death, why does the Bible say there WILL still be physical death in the New Heaven and New Earth (Isaiah 65:20, 66:24)?

Is 65:20 - the word for earth here is used to regularly to mean "in contrast to Canaan". The 1000 year reign will be in contrast to the land before. During the 1000 year reign there will still be death and sin - this is obvious from the fact that Satan will be loosed and will be able to find followers for the last battle (if you can actually call it a battle).

Is. 66:24 - referring to the aftermath of the last battle i mentioned above. Also a thinly cloaked reference to Hell.

QUESTION #4
If, after the New Heaven and New Earth come, there will be no more sin, why does Isaiah say there WILL still be sin (Isaiah 65:20)? Even Jesus Christ said there would still be sin in the next age (Matthew 12:32, Revelation 22:15). And Revelation says that, after the New Jerusalem comes, there will still be sinners (Revelation 21:27).

1,000 year reign - see above post and check out the Hebrew.

QUESTION #5
If the New Jerusalem is a physical place, and it will physically come down to earth, why did Jesus say it would not come with observation, and that people would not say "look here or look there" (Luke 17:20-21)? Why not say "look" if it will come with observation? Can it possibly be because it will be a spiritual kingdom and not a physical one?

First, read the whole chapter to get the context of this message in Luke 17.

Second, Jesus is saying we can't point to one place or another saying that the kingdom of God is set up here or there. The kingdom of God is in our midst. One, Jesus was there, which is self axplanatory. Two, this can also refer to us know in that we have the Holy Spirit so the kingdom of God is in us.

Gill's Exposition of the Bible
and the meaning be, that the king Messiah was already come, and was among them, and his kingdom was already set up, of which the miracles of Christ were a full proof; and if they could not discern these signs of the times, and evident appearances of the kingdom of God among them, they would never be able to make any observation of it, hereafter, or elsewhere