[deleted]

[Jesus First]

Let me ask you a question. When you were presented with the compelling evidence in whatever way it was that caused you to come out these errors like it has been being presented here, did you react the way these guys are?

Brother "True Science",

No, my repentance was a broken heart. It was tears of sorrow and regret. My broken heart had peace and joy that only Christ can give.

In Christ!

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[Jesus First]

Yes, if you were to ask them as a new convert to their churches, "what must I do to be saved?" Their answer would be like, "Why, nothing but receive Jesus as your personal savior." But where is that in Scripture? They'll twist the go and sin no more stuff into just that Jesus was just trying to trick you and really just make you realize that you can't really do it and then you'll trust on him by faith alone. Or, they say what he really means is you "should" go and "try" to sin no more.

You are correct. They are sincere, but deceived. They take passages like John 3:16 and twist it into a one time belief where some facts are to be acknowledged to be saved.

Another passage is Ephesians 2:8-9. They twist this into a one-time belief without works. They don't see that this passage doesn't say we won't have works. It's stating that the works performed don't save. It's written to believers, not the unsaved.

 

[brotherjerry]

True Science, as to your's and Jesus First bordering on personal attacks and laying claims that you are in no position to lay claims too..."ungodly","heresy",etc. And the complete and lack of understanding what proponents of eternal security have been telling you...which since it has been repeated time and time again it seems you are both moving towards just willfully ignoring and now seeking to engage in hateful rhetoric.

You all have been asked before to cite any post where anyone in the discussion has ever said anything like what you have falsely claimed proponents of eternal security believe. I know FG2 has said nothing like what you claim, nor have I. We have actually said quite the contrary to what you have claimed. This again shows a lack of understanding, or deliberate denial.

Either way, the truth of this theology* has been expressed to both of you. I know I have opened up the Bible to you numerous times to show you how you can know that your salvation is secure, and that when you are saved you are no longer flesh that sins, but spirit. You will not want to sin, you will not desire to sin, you will seek to do God's will. God will protect you and keep your soul as promised in the Bible. John wrote to us so that we may know for sure that we have eternal life, so that we may no longer doubt. Your salvation is not because of anything you can do, except to receive that which God is offering. There is but one condition when taking that, you have to submit to God, that is the turning away from sin and your sinful nature and being replaced with spirit nature and you begin to conform your mind to that Christ.

I pray that you all understand that I will not continue to discuss this matter with you if you seek to continue to claim I am ungodly, a heretic, or anything else of that nature. Not once have I ever said you or anyone else who believes in a conditional salvation is going to hell, or is going to be punished, or is not saved.

I thank you both for the insightful conversation up to this point. It has been informative for me to learn more of different doctrines and theologies. And I always learn more about my foundation in discussing things with other people, so it always makes me stronger. I pray you both stay in good spirits and that when we sit at the feet of Jesus we will know the truth of the matter. God bless.

<edited: *of this theology was added>

 

[Jesus First]

True Science, as to your's and Jesus First bordering on personal attacks and laying claims that you are in no position to lay claims too..."ungodly","heresy",etc. And the complete and lack of understanding what proponents of eternal security have been telling you...which since it has been repeated time and time again it seems you are both moving towards just willfully ignoring and now seeking to engage in hateful rhetoric.

You all have been asked before to cite any post where anyone in the discussion has ever said anything like what you have falsely claimed proponents of eternal security believe. I know FG2 has said nothing like what you claim, nor have I. We have actually said quite the contrary to what you have claimed. This again shows a lack of understanding, or deliberate denial.

Either way, the truth has been expressed to both of you. I know I have opened up the Bible to you numerous times to show you how you can know that your salvation is secure, and that when you are saved you are no longer flesh that sins, but spirit. You will not want to sin, you will not desire to sin, you will seek to do God's will. God will protect you and keep your soul as promised in the Bible. John wrote to us so that we may know for sure that we have eternal life, so that we may no longer doubt. Your salvation is not because of anything you can do, except to receive that which God is offering. There is but one condition when taking that, you have to submit to God, that is the turning away from sin and your sinful nature and being replaced with spirit nature and you begin to conform your mind to that Christ.

I pray that you all understand that I will not continue to discuss this matter with you if you seek to continue to claim I am ungodly, a heretic, or anything else of that nature. Not once have I ever said you or anyone else who believes in a conditional salvation is going to hell, or is going to be punished, or is not saved.

I thank you both for the insightful conversation up to this point. It has been informative for me to learn more of different doctrines and theologies. And I always learn more about my foundation in discussing things with other people, so it always makes me stronger. I pray you both stay in good spirits and that when we sit at the feet of Jesus we will know the truth of the matter. God bless.

Brother "Jerry",

This is more than about eternal security. This is about a theological system that sincere, yet deceived people hold. What's at stake is the destiny of man's souls.

Stay in God's Word and keep the faith in Jesus!

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[Jesus First]

I think very few in this mess are sincere. Most are probably not. I can't see how it is possible. The Scriptures clearly say God sent them an energy delusion so that they might damn themselves all the more because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved but took pleasure in unrighteousness. Few are probably sincerely deceived. Like you were, Jesus First. But such people, as they read Scripture and have the preaching of sound doctrine come to them will at least slowly come more and more out of these lies and the mindset, and eventually will come out 100% with enough truth if they are sincere. Christ said the Elect (and we know it is corporate election so no Calvinism here) would not eb deceived in an effectual way. All truly in Christ will not be able to be under the working delusion of the Lawless One. he only way is to not be a part of the Elect anymore. Or if they never get there.

I believe there are true believers inside Free Grace Theology who are saved. Some believe in Jesus with real faith. They are deceived by a theological system. There are others who think they are saved but clearly are not.

I see many Calvinist's as believers as well. I'm a zero point Calvinist myself; yet many or most are saved. They teach real repentance to be saved. They teach the necessity to submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. They teach the necessity to persevere, etc.

Someday very soon we will all stand before God himself and the truth will be known.

Keep the faith in Jesus!

 

[True Science]

[deleted]

 

[brotherjerry]

Brother "Jerry",

This is more than about eternal security. This is about a theological system that sincere, yet deceived people hold. What's at stake is the destiny of man's souls.

Stay in God's Word and keep the faith in Jesus!

Jesus First. Thank you for your response. Here is the problem though.
Me being a person who accepts eternal security. I was saved, I have a strong faith in Christ. I do what God leads me to do, whether that is counseling someone in need, discipling a new Christian, serving in my church or community, making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, whatever the Lord leads me to do, I do. I do not do it because I fear losing my salvation. I do not do it because I want to ensure that if I died I have more good marks on the board than bad marks. I do it because God sent His only Son to die on the cross and pay the blood sacrifice for the redemption of me and the wiping away of my sins.

Are you going to sit there and try and say that I am deceived and because of that my soul is at stake?

See this is the issue. You and I could live identical lives in every way except one of us feels at the beginning we got saved, the other thinks we get saved at the end. The only difference is the motivation for the works that come in between the point of "getting saved" (salvation for me, the start of salvation for you). For me because God released me from slavery under sin, paid the penalty for my sins, being death, bought me, then I am pleased to do good works and what He desires because of what He has already done for me, gratitude. You have some of the similar things in that you acknowledge God freed you, paid your penalty, etc, but you do good works and what He desires because of what you hope God will do for you. That is at least the gist of what I have gotten from conversations so far, so far when you try and dig deeper many proponents start to resort to ad hominem comments and false assertions of the doctrine...IE license to sin. Are you going to say one of us is saved while the other is not? I know I am not, because as far as I would say we both will sit at Christ's feet. Just because one of us had a misunderstanding of the doctrine of salvation, as long as we have faith that drives our desire to do God's will, then that is all that matters.

 

[FreeGrace2]

People don't have to wash their dirty robes to be saved (Revelation 22:14).

The context for those who have washed their robes is for REWARD, not salvation. That's where the insecurity crowd always makes their mistakes. Missing the context.

It’s a playboy system where they can gag on sin to Satan’s delight.

Not hardly. Apparently you haven't read any part of Heb 12.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Brother "True Science",

No, my repentance was a broken heart. It was tears of sorrow and regret. My broken heart had peace and joy that only Christ can give.

In Christ!

No one EVER cried their way into heaven. This isn't the gospel. This is just emotions. And emotions do NOT save anyone.

Heb 12:17 - For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

And please believe that Esau had plenty of sorrow and regret over what he did.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, if you were to ask them as a new convert to their churches, "what must I do to be saved?" Their answer would be like, "Why, nothing but receive Jesus as your personal savior." But where is that in Scripture?

Only Acts 16:30 and 31.

The jailer's question: v.30 - and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

Paul's answer: v.31 - They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Your flippant question about "where is that in Scripture" reveals a huge deficit of knowledge of Scripture.

They'll twist the go and sin no more stuff into just that Jesus was just trying to trick you and really just make you realize that you can't really do it and then you'll trust on him by faith alone. Or, they say what he really means is you "should" go and "try" to sin no more.

No where in the Bible do we read that if one "goes and sins no more" they will be saved.

 

[ToBeLoved]

True Science, as to your's and Jesus First bordering on personal attacks and laying claims that you are in no position to lay claims too..."ungodly","heresy",etc. And the complete and lack of understanding what proponents of eternal security have been telling you...which since it has been repeated time and time again it seems you are both moving towards just willfully ignoring and now seeking to engage in hateful rhetoric.

You all have been asked before to cite any post where anyone in the discussion has ever said anything like what you have falsely claimed proponents of eternal security believe. I know FG2 has said nothing like what you claim, nor have I. We have actually said quite the contrary to what you have claimed. This again shows a lack of understanding, or deliberate denial.

Either way, the truth of this theology* has been expressed to both of you. I know I have opened up the Bible to you numerous times to show you how you can know that your salvation is secure, and that when you are saved you are no longer flesh that sins, but spirit. You will not want to sin, you will not desire to sin, you will seek to do God's will. God will protect you and keep your soul as promised in the Bible. John wrote to us so that we may know for sure that we have eternal life, so that we may no longer doubt. Your salvation is not because of anything you can do, except to receive that which God is offering. There is but one condition when taking that, you have to submit to God, that is the turning away from sin and your sinful nature and being replaced with spirit nature and you begin to conform your mind to that Christ.

I pray that you all understand that I will not continue to discuss this matter with you if you seek to continue to claim I am ungodly, a heretic, or anything else of that nature. Not once have I ever said you or anyone else who believes in a conditional salvation is going to hell, or is going to be punished, or is not saved.

I thank you both for the insightful conversation up to this point. It has been informative for me to learn more of different doctrines and theologies. And I always learn more about my foundation in discussing things with other people, so it always makes me stronger. I pray you both stay in good spirits and that when we sit at the feet of Jesus we will know the truth of the matter. God bless.

<edited: *of this theology was added>

Yes. These types of conversations usually go 'most Christians', 'the Christians I have met', 'when Christians'.

They cannot bring it past opinion. I would like to see them quote scripture also to back up their opinion.

We all can opine for days. Let's talk scripture, but I don't think they will.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

What is the chapter and verse? I'd like to read the entire context.

 

[Jesus First]

What is the chapter and verse? I'd like to read the entire context.

2 John 1:9-10

 

[brotherjerry]

Context:

2 John 1:5-7 Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Abide in the teaching of Chirst - John says that is "love one another". If someone does not do that then they never had the Spirit is what John says. Not getting the full reward is not in reference to salvation, but rewards that we do receive in heaven as mentioned in Corinthians.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Context:
2 John 1:5-7 Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Abide in the teaching of Chirst - John says that is "love one another". If someone does not do that then they never had the Spirit is what John says. Not getting the full reward is not in reference to salvation, but rewards that we do receive in heaven as mentioned in Corinthians.

It seems they are talking about people who deny that Jesus Christ is the Savior.

I know that in the early church there were a lot of Pharisee's trying to bring the early church back under the law.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written unto you because you know not the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. . . . But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him."

2 Thessolonians 2:9-11
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

It is not true that all Christians are safe in their understanding. We all must be as the Berean's were and know the truth.