Death with dignity passes in California ( faith perspective only)

[Michie]

As many as he wants I reckon. I try to avoid the report route anymore hoping the community can work things out for themselves. Unless it just becomes outrageous or overt trolling.

Well he's about to be banned for the millionth and one time if he keeps arguing against Church teaching, if someone reports him. I won't. I like Cos. How many times can he resurrect?

 

[Rhamiel]

Unless it just becomes outrageous or overt trolling.

arguing against the teachings of the Catholic Church
encouraging doubt
mocking people who believe the teachings of the Church
being pedantic

that is not counted as overt trolling?

 

[Michie]

In this thread?

arguing against the teachings of the Catholic Church
encouraging doubt
mocking people who believe the teachings of the Church
being pedantic

that is not counted as overt trolling?

 

[benedictaoo]

That's the only thing I dislike about it. It can have Catholics thinking it's right and that makes it danger, danger, dangerous.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

That's the only thing I dislike about it. It can have Catholics thinking it's right and that makes it danger, danger, dangerous.

It's spiritually dangerous for the ones who argue against the Church and for the people who visit this website and see non-Catholic opinions being presented as Catholic. If a Catholic is having trouble accepting the basic teachings of the Church they should pray about it and ask God for the humility to accept His will instead of causing a scandal by venting it in a public forum. Scandal is one of the most serious of all sins. It's the one that Jesus warns us about with the millstone analogy.

 

[brewmama]

My wife has been a hospice nurse for 30 years.
You're flat wrong.

About what? There seems to be pretty good agreement that pain management is obtainable and not difficult, but just not utilized as much as it should be. If that is the case then shame on the hospice!
http://www.hospicepatients.org/hospic30.html
http://www.nursingtimes.net/whats-n...relief-because-of-legal-fears/5014721.article
I've already posted about the fear of pain being more of a motivator than actual pain.

About the egregious getting around of the euthanasia laws? Every single one passed has been abused, as I've already shown. How am I wrong?

I'm sorry, another example of what?
I did read the article. The law is being enforced badly. I'll admit that if this is typical and I can't say that it is or isn't from this article. But I don't think you can call a law immoral because it's being enforced incorrectly.

Another example of you being wrong about these laws being limited to the way they are written.
The law is of course immoral, but not because it isn't enforced correctly.

 

[Cos-play]

Well he's about to be banned for the millionth and one time if he keeps arguing against Church teaching, if someone reports him. I won't. I like Cos. How many times can he resurrect?

First of all this Cosmic of whom you speak (and whom of which I have no direct knowledge) hasn't been banned.


(He just can remember his password)

Be that as it may.....

....I'm not arguing against the theology of ANY church. All I'm saying is that I'm uncomfortable with removing the legal options for other people who don't share my theology. Especially when those people have arguments in favor the option that I find hard to refute on strictly secular thinking.

Look, ask yourself a question:

Why is a DNR NOT considered a sin of omission on the subject of euthanasia ?
Would it be exceptionable for an otherwise health 25 year old with a heart condition to have a DNR ?

(These are rhetorical questions I feel I've derailed this thread enough)

 

[LivingWordUnity]

About what? There seems to be pretty good agreement that pain management is obtainable and not difficult, but just not utilized as much as it should be. If that is the case then shame on the hospice!
http://www.hospicepatients.org/hospic30.html
http://www.nursingtimes.net/whats-n...relief-because-of-legal-fears/5014721.article
I've already posted about the fear of pain being more of a motivator than actual pain.

About the egregious getting around of the euthanasia laws? Every single one passed has been abused, as I've already shown. How am I wrong?



Another example of you being wrong about these laws being limited to the way they are written.
The law is of course immoral, but not because it isn't enforced correctly.

Good points.

 

[benedictaoo]

First of all this Cosmic of whom you speak (and whom of which I have no direct knowledge) hasn't been banned.


(He just can remember his password)

Be that as it may.....

....I'm not arguing against the theology of ANY church. All I'm saying is that I'm uncomfortable with removing the legal options for other people who don't share my theology. Especially when those people have arguments in favor the option that I find hard to refute on strictly secular thinking.

Look, ask yourself a question:

Why is a DNR NOT considered a sin of omission on the subject of euthanasia ?
Would it be exceptionable for an otherwise health 25 year old with a heart condition to have a DNR ?

(These are rhetorical questions I feel I've derailed this thread enough)

I Know, you feel the same way about gays marrying. I think we all know how you feel about lots of things.

 

[bill5]

Yeah, but. There's always a but. We have to be very watchful because the enemy prowls about seeking whom he may devour.

There's something going on in this world that is a false compassion, not saying your compassion is false. It's not but the enemy can play on that and exploit it.

The world right now as we know it is pushing sin in amazing ways and under the guise of compassion and many good people are being led astray. what used to be not offensive, like my posts, are now in this age of false compassion and PC, now is seen as offensive when nothing I say is offensive, but true.

What we have in this day, what we are seeing is pure humanism present all nice under the guise of compassion where we care for only the body and we disregard the soul. In this day you are a bad, bad person if you don't put the body first and ignore the soul. So we are in a world that is giving us compassion as a way to promote sin and that only leads to death of the soul.

Mixed feelings about this post (and obviously the topic) but it's a darn good one regardless; credit where credit is due.

If there's one thing we know (or should!) yet seem to ignore/forget, it's that Satan is nothing if not subtle, sophisticated, and a brilliant master of disguise and deceit. He's not going to work his craft through obvious ways or with an obvious face of evil. He will appear and work via ways that look very appealing, compassionate, etc etc. Sadly, many people are happy to dismiss this with an arrogant oh-I-know-better wave of the hand and merrily trudge down his path anyway.

 

[Cos-play]

I Know, you feel the same way about gays marrying. I think we all know how you feel about lots of things.

Well, I know how several (nameless) poster feel about a lot of things but that doesn't stop them from posting their feelings over and over and over and and over and over and over.

Also, I was taught (by the good sisters of the Benedictine order) that is social policy you should be an American first because America guaranteed your freedom to be a Catholic anytime you wanted without fear.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Also, I was taught (by the good sisters of the Benedictine order) that is social policy you should be an American first because America guaranteed your freedom to be a Catholic anytime you wanted without fear.

She wasn't teaching you Catholicism if she told you that.

Please read the Catechism.

 

[Solace Girl]

I'm starting to understand why there was a focus on end of life issues at church this week. I think this subject is extremely delicate. My personal struggles with suicidal thoughts were shaped a bit by my time living in an Asian culture (it is acceptable to kill yourself over things like career failure in countries like Japan) and the heroic depictions of suicide in operas and Ancient Roman literature. There was an air of nobility to suicide in Pre-Christian times, and I think it's returning to our culture for the same reasons: people do not want to be burdens to society/their friends and they do not want to be failures in general. We live in a very competitive world that doesn't value "weaker" individuals. It is all really sad and I'm not surprised that more liberal areas of the world are loosening their policies, as that is the easy thing to do and people like it when governments give them things they want.

 

[Michie]

What an insightful post. Thank you.

I'm starting to understand why there was a focus on end of life issues at church this week. I think this subject is extremely delicate. My personal struggles with suicidal thoughts were shaped a bit by my time living in an Asian culture (it is acceptable to kill yourself over things like career failure in countries like Japan) and the heroic depictions of suicide in operas and Ancient Roman literature. There was an air of nobility to suicide in Pre-Christian times, and I think it's returning to our culture for the same reasons: people do not want to be burdens to society/their friends and they do not want to be failures in general. We live in a very competitive world that doesn't value "weaker" individuals. It is all really sad and I'm not surprised that more liberal areas of the world are loosening their policies, as that is the easy thing to do and people like it when governments give them things they want.

 

[bill5]

I'm starting to understand why there was a focus on end of life issues at church this week. I think this subject is extremely delicate. My personal struggles with suicidal thoughts were shaped a bit by my time living in an Asian culture (it is acceptable to kill yourself over things like career failure in countries like Japan) and the heroic depictions of suicide in operas and Ancient Roman literature. There was an air of nobility to suicide in Pre-Christian times, and I think it's returning to our culture for the same reasons: people do not want to be burdens to society/their friends and they do not want to be failures in general.

? But that's not what this thread is about. We're talking about people terminally ill.

And people who commit suicide (ie not euthanasia), at least in America, almost always do so due to severe depression or failure and seeing no way out, thinking their life (ie a life worth living) is effectively over anyway. It's an act of desperation or last resort. Tragic, but not noble.