Justatruthseeker

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Yes, we have all heard the spiel over and over. It doesn't work. Plasma does not magically sort out of galaxies. It is not being taken seriously by astronomers for very good reasons.

The evidence for exotic dark material is still there.

Of course it doesn't magically sort out of galaxies, it is transported there by the electromagnetic force.

NASA - NASA's Chandra Shows Milky Way is Surrounded by Halo of Hot Gas

On the other hand, you want a particle that only interacts gravitationally, to magically stay on the outskirts of galaxies, since it does not interact with the magnetic field, unlike plasma. There is not one shred of evidence for exotic dark matter that can not be explained by plasma and the electromagnetic force, that just happens to be everywhere.

The only reason astronomers don't take it seriously because to do so would destroy their entire cosmology. Say good bye to dark matter, say good bye to expansion and dark energy, say good bye to redshift. To admit they were wrong would be to admit they are not the experts they claim to be, but mere novices, something their egos will not allow. So instead they will continue to dupe you into believing in Fairie Dust, and continue to suck your taxes dry looking for something that does not exists, and so will never be found.

They are already considering that this mass of plasma may solve the missing baryon problem, and when they announce it does, what will you believe in then when your Fairie Dust comes crashing down around your ears?


"If the size and mass of this gas halo is confirmed, it also could be an explanation for what is known as the "missing baryon" problem for the galaxy."

Has the Missing-baryon Mystery Been Solved?

http://astroweb.case.edu/ssm/papers/mcgaugh_iau244.pdf

So if the baryons are there in the plasma halo, there will no longer be any need for your Fairie Dust. But don't give up your faith, such a strong thing is faith in things never detected or observed. It is called religion.
 
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Loudmouth

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Of course it doesn't magically sort out of galaxies, it is transported there by the electromagnetic force.

NASA - NASA's Chandra Shows Milky Way is Surrounded by Halo of Hot Gas

On the other hand, you want a particle that only interacts gravitationally, to magically stay on the outskirts of galaxies, since it does not interact with the magnetic field, unlike plasma. There is not one shred of evidence for exotic dark matter that can not be explained by plasma and the electromagnetic force, that just happens to be everywhere.

The only reason astronomers don't take it seriously because to do so would destroy their entire cosmology. Say good bye to dark matter, say good bye to expansion and dark energy, say good bye to redshift. To admit they were wrong would be to admit they are not the experts they claim to be, but mere novices, something their egos will not allow. So instead they will continue to dupe you into believing in Fairie Dust, and continue to suck your taxes dry looking for something that does not exists, and so will never be found.

They are already considering that this mass of plasma may solve the missing baryon problem, and when they announce it does, what will you believe in then when your Fairie Dust comes crashing down around your ears?


"If the size and mass of this gas halo is confirmed, it also could be an explanation for what is known as the "missing baryon" problem for the galaxy."

Has the Missing-baryon Mystery Been Solved?

http://astroweb.case.edu/ssm/papers/mcgaugh_iau244.pdf

So if the baryons are there in the plasma halo, there will no longer be any need for your Fairie Dust. But don't give up your faith, such a strong thing is faith in things never detected or observed. It is called religion.

Your grasp on reality is weakening.
 
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Michael

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Yes, we have all heard the spiel over and over. It doesn't work. Plasma does not magically sort out of galaxies.

Electrical current and gravity aren't "magic".

It is not being taken seriously by astronomers for very good reasons.

No doubt it's "funding" related. :)

BBC News - Cern considers building huge physics machine

As to the value of building any experiment to succeed the LHC, Dr Heuer dismisses any suggestion that the discovery of the Higgs boson marks an end point to particle physics.
"By no means. We've only just begun," he said.
"It took nearly 50 years to complete the so-called Standard Model, which just describes barely 5% of the Universe - the visible Universe. Fifty years for 5%! We still need to explore 95%, and this is what I would call the dark Universe.
"We very much hope that with the LHC running at higher energy next year, we might get the first glimpse of what dark matter is, for example. And building on that I would assume that we then can build a physics case for a future circular collider."
Emphasis mine. Never mind those three straight lab failures of SUSY theory, and the fact we haven't seen a single glimpse of anything beyond the standard model to date. They're already trying to justify a bigger collider based on the same falsified nonsense from one otherwise falsified cosmology theory! How sad does it get? They just feed off each other now, and lab failures be damned! It's full speed ahead with the same falsified dogma without respect to the actual physical results of their tests!

The evidence for exotic dark material is still there.
The evidence that your galaxy mass estimates were horrifically flawed is still there too. In fact it's been demonstrated over and over and over again since 2006 and that lensing study.

All we know for sure is that your galaxy mass estimates weren't worth the paper they were printed on, and the maths were utterly flawed in every way, from the sizes of large stars, to the number of smaller ones, to the amount of mass in the form of plasma the surrounds them. You blew it at *every* level!
 
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Michael

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Justatruthseeker. A sphere of "plasma" or hot gas will not affect the spin rate of the Milky Way. When it comes to the galaxy rotating too fast the plasma that may surround it is neither here nor there gravitationally.


The current running through a Birkeland current (or homopolar generator) will however have an effect on the spin rate. Its the fact you keep leaving out the *current* that's the problem, not just the fact you're ignoring the behaviors of plasma. You're also ignoring the actual *physical features* that define the specific plasma layouts in galaxies, specifically the *current*.
 
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Seipai

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The current running through a Birkeland current (or homopolar generator) will however have an effect on the spin rate. Its the fact you keep leaving out the *current* that's the problem, not just the fact you're ignoring the behaviors of plasma. You're also ignoring the actual *physical features* that define the specific plasma layouts in galaxies, specifically the *current*.

Too bad none of the necessary magnitude have been observed. Nor have we observed the predicted spectrum of light from such a plasma.

By the way, don't accuse anyone of ignoring anything when you are far more guilty of that sin.
 
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Michael

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Too bad none of the necessary magnitude have been observed. Nor have we observed the predicted spectrum of light from such a plasma.

Utterly false. We see the Birkeland currents and current "lobe" effects in x-ray and radio waves in particular.

NASA - Radio Telescopes Capture Best-Ever Snapshot of Black Hole Jets

By the way, don't accuse anyone of ignoring anything when you are far more guilty of that sin.

Pfft. You see those powerful Birkeland currents, completely *ignore* the fact they are "current carrying devices", and they claim we can't see them in the appropriate wavelengths? :confused::doh:
 
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Seipai

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Utterly false. We see the Birkeland currents and current "lobe" effects in x-ray and radio waves in particular.

NASA - Radio Telescopes Capture Best-Ever Snapshot of Black Hole Jets



Pfft. You see those powerful Birkeland currents, completely *ignore* the fact they are "current carrying devices", and they claim we can't see them in the appropriate wavelengths? :confused::doh:

Doh indeed.

Why do you always underline the fact that you have made an incredibly foolish mistake by using the Doh smiley? Black hole jets are not Birkeland currents. We need no magic to explain them.

And the desired spectrum is still missing. Definitely one of your better "Doh!" moments.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Neutrinos?

Considering the fact that 'dark matter' theory experienced three straight falsifications experiments in a row, and it's been reduced to an 'exotic matter of the gaps' argument at this point, what exactly does it take to finally falsify a claim that has never enjoyed empirical support to start with?

Matter of the gaps? [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]?

The only reason why it is called dark matter is because it seems to be exerting something like gravity.
It's a placeholder name. We don't know what it is, what it is made of or what properties it has. We only know the effect of: because we can measure it.

We KNOW there is something there exerting gravity (or something like gravity), because, again, we can measure it.

No scientist ever claimed to know what dark matter is. How could you falsify the idea of "we don't know yet"?

What you most probably mean, is that some scientists might have brought forward ideas to explain what dark matter is and that THOSE ideas were falsified. But "dark matter" itself is not an idea. It's a name for something that measurably exists but of which we don't know what it is.
 
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florida2

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Michael

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Plasma that just magically stops interacting with other matter is magic.

Nothing of the sort took place in that lensing study. You could simply *see* the interaction of the million degree plasma, but not the black hole and stellar infrastructures that passed right on through. So what?

The only place you can find this plasma nonsense is on PU crackpot websites. Any wonder why?

Back to your pathetic use of ad homs in every post. Your debate crutch is so old, it's got a fallacy *named* after it. :) You need a new song and dance routine.
 
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Michael

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Doh indeed.

Why do you always underline the fact that you have made an incredibly foolish mistake by using the Doh smiley? Black hole jets are not Birkeland currents.

Um, yes they are. When you take charged particles and *move* them at the speed of light, it's called a 'current', and it creates magnetic lines in it's wake. The current generates those thin *Birkeland currents* that we see in the radio spectrum, the x-ray spectrum, and pretty much every high energy spectrum.

We need no magic to explain them.
You do need high speed moving charged particles to explain them, and guess what that's called in the real world of physics?

And the desired spectrum is still missing. Definitely one of your better "Doh!" moments.
Nope. The desired spectrum is right there. It's simply more powerful in some case, and less powerful in others, but it's right there around every jet and every quasar in the universe.

FYI, Alfven described that whole current flow pattern as a "homopolar generator".
 
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Michael

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Interesting but will need more study. One paper is hardly enough.

Actually that was two, but you're right, I'd say the jury is still out on that one.

Just interested mike - when did you become so fascinated by EU theories?

It started in 2005 with a revelation related to solar satellite imagery, and the cause of coronal loops. I started by reading Birkeland's work (because it was free and easy to access), and I was pretty much "hooked" at that point. Alfven's work sealed the deal, as well as Peratt's book on plasma physics. I've never looked back.
 
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Michael

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No scientist ever claimed to know what dark matter is. How could you falsify the idea of "we don't know yet"?

What you most probably mean, is that some scientists might have brought forward ideas to explain what dark matter is and that THOSE ideas were falsified. But "dark matter" itself is not an idea. It's a name for something that measurably exists but of which we don't know what it is.

*If* you were correct that NASA and the mainstream were making no claims about dark matter, I would not be publicly busting their chops over their claims. You are however naive in terms of what they actually claim about the nature of "dark matter" IMO, particularly their need for "exotic" types of matter to make their nucleosynthesis numbers work right.

NASA does unfortunately run around making "knowledge statements" about the composition and makeup of "dark matter" that simply cannot be supported by the evidence:

Dark Energy, Dark Matter - NASA Science

By fitting a theoretical model of the composition of the Universe to the combined set of cosmological observations, scientists have come up with the composition that we described above, ~68% dark energy, ~27% dark matter, ~5% normal matter. What is dark matter?

We are much more certain what dark matter is not than we are what it is. First, it is dark, meaning that it is not in the form of stars and planets that we see. Observations show that there is far too little visible matter in the Universe to make up the 27% required by the observations. Second, it is not in the form of dark clouds of normal matter, matter made up of particles called baryons. We know this because we would be able to detect baryonic clouds by their absorption of radiation passing through them. Third, dark matter is not antimatter, because we do not see the unique gamma rays that are produced when antimatter annihilates with matter.
Emphasis mine. Each of those three highlighted claims were actually *falsified* since that lensing study in 2006, and they have been *falsified* repeatedly.

In 2009 we finally figured out that we *botched* the star count something terrible, falsifying their claim about it *not* being in the form of stars.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=2287

We also found they blew the second claim too.

2008 | Universe shines twice as bright | University of St Andrews

It turns out it *was* absorbing more light passing through them than we realized.

The third claim is simply and utterly absurd.

New Telescope Strategy Could Resolve Dark Matter Mystery, Scientists Say | Space.com

We see gamma rays coming from *all over the place* in space, from solar flare activity, to electrical discharges in planetary atmospheres. Instead of attributing these events to discharges and antimatter, they simply chalk them up to their supposedly *dark* friends, and now claim they "produce light"!

Every single one of those highlighted claims has been falsified since 2008, but NASA and the mainstream continue to make them anyway. :(

They didn't even update any of those numbers on that website based on any of the revelations of stellar miscounts or brightness factors, or even all the plasma they found in 2012. In fact the *only* time they've updated that particular page was to change the percentages *only slightly* due to the nucleosynthesis calculations related to PLANCK data.

They *need* exotic forms of matter, otherwise all their nucleosynthesis claims go up in smoke.

NASA has continuously and erroneously misrepresented the facts about the *makeup* and compositions of that "missing mass". As you said, they do *not* actually know what dark matter is, or is not. They do however erroneously misrepresent the facts in terms of what we actually can say about it.

The whole draw of SUSY and WIMP theory is due to the fact that it doesn't "mess up" their claims about nucleosynthesis, whereas *ordinary* matter would mess it up big time. The "creation mythos dogma" must be protected and promoted at all costs, even at the cost of scientific honesty and integrity. :( They don't even *care* that SUSY theory took three straight hits in the lab in the past 18 months, they *still* keep writing about SUSY theory on nearly a *daily* basis, including trying to claim that WIMPS are the cause of gamma rays in space!
 
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Seipai

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Um, yes they are. When you take charged particles and *move* them at the speed of light, it's called a 'current', and it creates magnetic lines in it's wake. The current generates those thin *Birkeland currents* that we see in the radio spectrum, the x-ray spectrum, and pretty much every high energy spectrum.

No. For one thing the jets are electrically neutral. You have not shown that this is a "current", much less a Birkeland current.

You do need high speed moving charged particles to explain them, and guess what that's called in the real world of physics?

Certainly not a current. In the world of physics currents tend to be very very slow traveling.

Nope. The desired spectrum is right there. It's simply more powerful in some case, and less powerful in others, but it's right there around every jet and every quasar in the universe.

Then why can't your side convincingly demonstrate that?

FYI, Alfven described that whole current flow pattern as a "homopolar generator".

I really do not care how Alfven described it. Hm, "homopolar" is an interesting term. What do you mean by it?
 
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Michael

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No. For one thing the jets are electrically neutral.

Wherever did you get that claim? Thin plasma?

You have not shown that this is a "current", much less a Birkeland current.
I absolutely *have* shown you that it's a *current*, including those million degree high energy plasma releases over the whole thread, the magnetic fields around them, and the fact they stay in tightly wound spirals over *vast distances*! That's a *classic* Birkeland current in fact, and it's *predicted* to exist in *every* single homopolar generator scenario in a plasma universe!

Certainly not a current. In the world of physics currents tend to be very very slow traveling.
That's because they don't have a huge rapidly spinning magnetic field that rotating at near light speeds.

Every time you put a charged particle in motion, you have a current, and a magnetic field created by that moving charged particle. You can't just *ignore* the fact it's a form of current on a whim!

Then why can't your side convincingly demonstrate that?
Convincingly? Gee, I don't know. If they're like you it's probably due to pure ignorance of concept for starters. :) I doubt you'd even heard of the idea until recently. ;)

I really do not care how Alfven described it.
So you motives have nothing to do with any desire to learn anything about EU/PC theory apparently.

Hm, "homopolar" is an interesting term. What do you mean by it?
It's a specific term related to a specific type of device:

Homopolar motor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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