Daniel 12:1

[mindlight]

At that time Michael will appear. He is the great leader of the angels who guards the people. There will be a time of terrible suffering. Things will be worse than at any time since nations began. But at that time of suffering your people will be saved. Their names are written in the Book of Life.

Is Michael the prince of Israel only or does he fight for all Gods people?

When is "at that time"? There have been many bad times. Does this refer to the time of the tribulation for instance?

Is this a prophecy referring to the salvation of the Jews in the last days?

How do you understand this passage?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[LastSeven]

Matthew 24:21
For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Daniel 12:1
There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.

Same language. Must be talking about the same time.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Is Michael the prince of Israel only or does he fight for all Gods people?

Michael is what the text says. He is specific to Israel according to the text, but Marshal over all of the Heavenly Host as Archangel.Like in the U.S. Our chief military officers are headquartered at our Pentagon, but they marshal forces all over the world. Their main objective though is tp protect the U.S. That may be a poor correlation, but I hope it helps.

 

[LastSeven]

Is Michael the prince of Israel only or does he fight for all Gods people?

Israel is God's people. Always has been.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Is Michael the prince of Israel only or does he fight for all Gods people?

He fights for all of God's people at our appointed time of the end. Take me for example, I'm a Citizen of the Commonwealth of Israel, Abraham's seed. God has redefined Daniel's people since the folks from chapter 9 and I'm one of them who just happened to be born in Pontiac Michigan.

When is "at that time"? There have been many bad times. Does this refer to the time of the tribulation for instance?

This time will be the worst. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. I still can't pinpoint too precisely when "at that time" will be. “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light". I'd say around one of the weeks in the month of January a couple of few years from now but even "in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel" seems to leave some wiggle room for pinning down the exact chronology. It will be within days, + or - how many?, of that call *to be* sounded by the seventh angel when this is fulfilled.

Is this a prophecy referring to the salvation of the Jews in the last days?

Nope, for in these last days now there is neither Jew nor Gentile slave nor free, male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus. .

How do you understand this passage?

This verse describes the rapture/resurrection at the end of the "time, times, and half a time" which is roughly the same as the 1260 days of Revelation 11. That's when Daniel's people, God's people, are delivered. This is when the mystery of God is fulfilled and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

We will probably watch the last few days of the tribulation from the air. This is also when Daniel himself will stand in his allotted place at the end of the days.

"But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”​

I envy a man so greatly loved by God, rest must be sweet in His righteous right Hand.

Have a peaceful rest of the Sabbath.

 

[keras]

I agree with Dave W, all who believe in God and accept the salvation offered by Jesus, are Israelite.. Therefore Michael will be our protector during the Lord's Day of wrath, the time of trouble.....when all whose names are written in the Book, will be delivered. Daniel 12:1, Isaiah 43:2
The Day of wrath is the Sixth Seal, the commencement of all the last days events.
But the resurrection of verse 2 occurs later, at the Return of Jesus.

 

[mindlight]

Matthew 24:21
For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Daniel 12:1
There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.

Same language. Must be talking about the same time.

So this time of great distress must be global, effect the whole church and has not happened yet

 

[mindlight]

I see the verse as linking back to what happens
when the glorious land is entered into in chapter
11 and it left out what occurs.

Daniel 11:31
/they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate

Daniel 11:41
/shall enter also into the glorious land

Daniel 12:1
/And at that time

So you believe in the rebuilding of the temple so that the sin of Antiochus can be repeated. That the return of the Jews to Israel is part of this end times scenario and permits the next sequence of events to occur. That given the times are not as troubled as at other times in history this is a clearly future event.

 

[mindlight]

Michael is what the text says. He is specific to Israel according to the text, but Marshal over all of the Heavenly Host as Archangel.Like in the U.S. Our chief military officers are headquartered at our Pentagon, but they marshal forces all over the world. Their main objective though is tp protect the U.S. That may be a poor correlation, but I hope it helps.

Yes I like that analogy but as you allude Israel is the centre not the States. We are grafted into the vine of the Jewish remnant. Michael is the prince of Israel but did not stand with them against Nebuchadnezzar or the Romans. Since we also are the adopted children of the same God Michael fights for us in a spiritual conflict in which the physical state of Israel and the physical Jewish remnant remain central. Is he the leader of Gods army because he is the strongest angel or because of his representation of Israel. If he commands an army surely there are other officers and angels In that angelic army that represent other nations. In the current state of affairs is the angel that guards America more empowered than the one that guards Israel and commands the army of which he is a mere member.

 

[mindlight]

He fights for all of God's people at our appointed time of the end. Take me for example, I'm a Citizen of the Commonwealth of Israel, Abraham's seed. God has redefined Daniel's people since the folks from chapter 9 and I'm one of them who just happened to be born in Pontiac Michigan.



This time will be the worst. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. I still can't pinpoint too precisely when "at that time" will be. “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light". I'd say around one of the weeks in the month of January a couple of few years from now but even "in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel" seems to leave some wiggle room for pinning down the exact chronology. It will be within days, + or - how many?, of that call *to be* sounded by the seventh angel when this is fulfilled.



Nope, for in these last days now there is neither Jew nor Gentile slave nor free, male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus. .



This verse describes the rapture/resurrection at the end of the "time, times, and half a time" which is roughly the same as the 1260 days of Revelation 11. That's when Daniel's people, God's people, are delivered. This is when the mystery of God is fulfilled and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

We will probably watch the last few days of the tribulation from the air. This is also when Daniel himself will stand in his allotted place at the end of the days.

"But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”​

I envy a man so greatly loved by God, rest must be sweet in His righteous right Hand.

Have a peaceful rest of the Sabbath.

I agree with a post trib rapture interpretation, but disagree that the Jews are now just one component of the Israel of God (the church). There are prophecies that refer to a physical land and people of the Jews which sit oddly with the church alone. So there remains a purpose for the physical Jewish people even if in Christ we are all equals regardless of race or gender, or economic class.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Yes I like that analogy but as you allude Israel is the centre not the States. We are grafted into the vine of the Jewish remnant. Michael is the prince of Israel but did not stand with them against Nebuchadnezzar or the Romans. Since we also are the adopted children of the same God Michael fights for us in a spiritual conflict in which the physical state of Israel and the physical Jewish remnant remain central. Is he the leader of Gods army because he is the strongest angel or because of his representation of Israel. If he commands an army surely there are other officers and angels In that angelic army that represent other nations. In the current state of affairs is the angel that guards America more empowered than the one that guards Israel and commands the army of which he is a mere member.

Hi. I was just using the U.S. Joint chiefs as an analogy, and their center is the U.S. I was not saying Michael's center of attention is the U.S. as you suggest I said. I am sorry if I sent the wrong intent.

Remember, Michael takes his orders from his Commander in chief who is our Father in Heaven. God had already decreed through the Prophet Jeremiah that the Babylonians would take Judah captive for seventy years.Though Michael is the guardian prince over the Jews, he will not go against our Father's word.That is why he did not help the Jews during Nebuchadnezzar's captivity. His orders from the Most High was "Stand down."

There are several classifications of Angelic beings.Michael is chief because he is the Archangel, the highest order of angels.He is in charge of all of the Heavenly host including the one(s) that guards America.

 

[LastSeven]

So this time of great distress must be global, effect the whole church and has not happened yet

No, because this verse (in Matthew 24) is preceded by a warning to those in Judea specifically. It also is preceded by the warning about the abomination of desolation, which Luke confirms to be the surrounding of armies, which happened in 70AD.

 

[iamlamad]

At that time Michael will appear. He is the great leader of the angels who guards the people. There will be a time of terrible suffering. Things will be worse than at any time since nations began. But at that time of suffering your people will be saved. Their names are written in the Book of Life.

Is Michael the prince of Israel only or does he fight for all Gods people?

When is "at that time"? There have been many bad times. Does this refer to the time of the tribulation for instance?

Is this a prophecy referring to the salvation of the Jews in the last days?

How do you understand this passage?

"At that time" will begin immediately after the man of sin does the abomination and turns BEAST. But things will get MUCH WORSE after the false prophet shows up, the image is created and the mark is enforced. There will be no fresh water (trumpet and vial judgments) and the only way to get a drink will be to buy it - except without the mark, you cannot buy.
It will be the worst time on earth EVER.

 

[ewq1938]

I agree with Dave W, all who believe in God and accept the salvation offered by Jesus, are Israelite..

Agreed. If you are Christian, you are of Israel. If you are not, you are not of Israel despite physical lineage.

The Day of wrath is the Sixth Seal, the commencement of all the last days events.
But the resurrection of verse 2 occurs later, at the Return of Jesus.

The 6th seal speaks of 7th trump/second coming events from the perspective of the unsaved. It is a glimpse of that timeframe but those events do not happen when the seal is opened. Seals are information not action. Trumps are the call for an action to take place. That is what trumps were used for in battle. A certain trump sound meant archers fire, another meant something else etc. It is what was used before radios and phones.

 

[ewq1938]

"At that time" will begin immediately after the man of sin does the abomination and turns BEAST. But things will get MUCH WORSE after the false prophet shows up, the image is created and the mark is enforced.

The first beast is a government not a man. The second beast is the false prophet who is a singular person known in the book of John as the antichrist.

 

[BABerean2]

There will be a time of terrible suffering. Things will be worse than at any time since nations began. But at that time of suffering your people will be saved. Their names are written in the Book of Life.

Php_4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.



Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

.

 

[keras]

The 6th seal speaks of 7th trump/second coming events from the perspective of the unsaved. It is a glimpse of that timeframe but those events do not happen when the seal is opened. Seals are information not action. Trumps are the call for an action to take place. That is what trumps were used for in battle. A certain trump sound meant archers fire, another meant something else etc. It is what was used before radios and phones.

Purely your opinion.
The descriptions the 6 Seals in Rev 6 and the 7th in Rev 8:1, are of things that happen as each Seal is removed. It actually doesn't make sense any other way.
From history, we know the first five Seals were opened when Jesus ascended heaven. The Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event we can expect. The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Trib, happen in the last 31/2 years before the Return. Mixing them up is an error.

 

[ewq1938]

Purely your opinion.
The descriptions the 6 Seals in Rev 6 and the 7th in Rev 8:1, are of things that happen as each Seal is removed.

That's an incorrect interpretation. Obviously Jesus cannot be returning in the 6th seal and a second time in the 7th trump. It is obvious that the 6th seal is showing us something happening in the 7th trump.

It actually doesn't make sense any other way.
From history, we know the first five Seals were opened when Jesus ascended heaven.

History does not show such a thing.

The Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event we can expect.

No, the return of Christ does not happen until the trib and the appearance of the Antichrist.

The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Trib, happen in the last 31/2 years before the Return. Mixing them up is an error.

None of that is correct. You do not understand the chronology of Rev but that's very common.

 

[iamlamad]

Keras is correct in his chronology; others THINK they know, when in fact, they don't.
The CONTEXT of the first seals is the vision of the throne room. In that vision, John, looking into the throne room of the past, saw the very moment Jesus ascended back into the throne room, having risen from the dead. That sets the TIME at around 32 AD. The FIRST THING Jesus did upon rising to the throne room is get the scroll from the Father and begin breaking the seals.
Seal one is to represent THE CHURCH taking THE GOSPEL to the world.
SEals 2-4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel.
Seal 5 is the martyrs of the CHURCH AGE. They are told to wait for the final martyr of the church age.
Just before seal 6, Jesus will descent with a shout, and call up the dead in Christ.
.....This is cause a great earthquake around the world, which will be Paul's "sudden destruction."
AT this "sudden destruction" two groups of people get two separate results:
1: Those IN CHRIST get raptured and "so shall they ever be with the Lord." This ENDS the church age and then Judgment comes after.
2. Those living in darkness cannot escape the sudden destruction.

John then saw the raptured church in heaven in Rev. 7