Creation Belief

[Tangible]

As with the Lord's Supper, I believe the scriptural account and see no need to attempt to explain the process involved.

 

[Metal Minister]

Well, I see that God has mentioned it, just not in a direct way. The purpose, IMHO, for Moses writting the recreation event in Genesis 1 was not to spell out how and when God created the heavens and earth but how He created man. That God created the heaven and earth is already a for-gone conclusion.

Now, when reading Genesis 1 most of us read it in an English translation but if we study the Hebrew in which Moses penned the words we can see how there was a gap in time, or simply, how when God created the heavens and earth and when the earth was without form and void where two different events. so, when reading Genesis 1 in the English it's not so apparent that these two events are seperated by time.

I've read it in both, (admittedly with a Hebrew to English translation handy) and in both, I do not get the sense of a passage of time. Simply one focus to another. The universe, and then specifically the earth.

For instance, in the first verse God created, in the following verses God makes. It's said that God creates things out of nothing, so when He created the heaven and earth He created all of this out of nothing. However, in the following verses the Hebrew reveals that God is making things out of something. It's not said that God created light but only that He allows it to be seen, "let there be light".

I think this is reading more into it than is there. God's creation of light was ex nihilo. Out of nothing. However, the fact that He can create from nothing doesn't mean He's forced to create from nothing.

Also, does God create things that are imperfect? Everything God made in the 6 days was spoken out and instantly was made good. Though creationists believe God created the earth formless and void. The Hebrew words for formless and void holds the meaning of chaos, confusion, and catastrophy.

Actually my translation states formless and empty. Also, when something is unformed, in a blank lump for lack of a better term, there is no order to it yet. God had yet to form it. It was His, as yet, blank canvas. I think "and void", or "empty" means there is nothing there to be chaotic. And while we both agree, that God's creation started as perfect, we have a problem. If the earth was here, and then destroyed (something never mentioned in scripture) that would mean that evil must've been on the earth before man's fall. Otherwise what would've destroyed the earth? Also we have to look at it from another perspective. Do we agree that God has preserved His word? If so, then the English translation would be blasphemous if it created such a problem. I think that considering the six day creation is reinforced throughout the scriptures that we would do better the err on the side of the bible in a more literal sense. Otherwise it appears to be eisegesis.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I've read it in both, (admittedly with a Hebrew to English translation handy) and in both, I do not get the sense of a passage of time. Simply one focus to another. The universe, and then specifically the earth.


I think this is reading more into it than is there. God's creation of light was ex nihilo. Out of nothing. However, the fact that He can create from nothing doesn't mean He's forced to create from nothing.


Actually my translation states formless and empty. Also, when something is unformed, in a blank lump for lack of a better term, there is no order to it yet. God had yet to form it. It was His, as yet, blank canvas. I think "and void", or "empty" means there is nothing there to be chaotic. And while we both agree, that God's creation started as perfect, we have a problem. If the earth was here, and then destroyed (something never mentioned in scripture) that would mean that evil must've been on the earth before man's fall. Otherwise what would've destroyed the earth? Also we have to look at it from another perspective. Do we agree that God has preserved His word? If so, then the English translation would be blasphemous if it created such a problem. I think that considering the six day creation is reinforced throughout the scriptures that we would do better the err on the side of the bible in a more literal sense. Otherwise it appears to be eisegesis.

"empty"?, well, again, you need to get the meaning in the Hebrew not some English translation. Um, ok, you don't see it and probably never will. I wont waste my time anymore then, especially with someone who thinks I might be committing blasphemy as now I know this discussion will just go down further into pointlessness.

I agree with Tangible though. All I'm really concerned with is whether we believe God created the heavens and earth and us. Now let us point each other towards the saviour Jesus Christ!

God Bless

 

[Metal Minister]

"empty"?, well, again, you need to get the meaning in the Hebrew not some English translation. Um, ok, you don't see it and probably never will. I wont waste my time anymore then, especially with someone who thinks I might be committing blasphemy as now I know this discussion will just go down further into pointlessness.

I agree with Tangible though. All I'm really concerned with is whether we believe God created the heavens and earth and us. Now let us point each other towards the saviour Jesus Christ!

God Bless

WHOA! Hold on a second, I'm not saying you're guilty of blasphemy! I'm trying to understand your point of view! My apologies if you got that from my post. Please know it was not my intent! I've read both the Hebrew and English versions, and you're right, I don't see this gap. I also don't see where this gap is mentioned anywhere else in scripture. I'm honestly trying to understand where you're coming from. We both agree that God definitely created the heavens, earth, and us, I think the only part we don't see eye to eye on is the amount of time taken. Am I correct?

 

[Partaker of Christ]

I use to think the gap theory was a possibility, but I now cannot accept it.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light. And there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light that it was good. And God divided between the light and the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Jesus Himself said:
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

The beginning of creation starts at Gen 1:1 "In the beginning God created"

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.
Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Gen 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

God rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

Did God have to wait some billions of years of working, before He could then have one day off?

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.

 

[nephilimiyr]

WHOA! Hold on a second, I'm not saying you're guilty of blasphemy! I'm trying to understand your point of view! My apologies if you got that from my post. Please know it was not my intent! I've read both the Hebrew and English versions, and you're right, I don't see this gap. I also don't see where this gap is mentioned anywhere else in scripture. I'm honestly trying to understand where you're coming from. We both agree that God definitely created the heavens, earth, and us, I think the only part we don't see eye to eye on is the amount of time taken. Am I correct?

Thanks Metal but I wasn't offended and I'm sorry that I made you think I was. I'm just not that into this subject as I used to be and don't think I can contribute anymore than what I have. If you'd like to understand it better I'm not the one to talk to as you're asking questions and making statements that are kinda throwing me for a loop. Not that I don't know the answers but I simply don't know where to begin.

LOL, yeah the time God took is the difference in our beliefs, that gap in time, but everything else within Genesis 1 we're pretty much on the same page. I think that's good enough, don't you?

 

[Rubiks]

the options are too black and white =C

 

[nephilimiyr]

I use to think the gap theory was a possibility, but I now cannot accept it.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light. And there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light that it was good. And God divided between the light and the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Jesus Himself said:
Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

The beginning of creation starts at Gen 1:1 "In the beginning God created"

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.
Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Gen 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

God rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

Did God have to wait some billions of years of working, before He could then have one day off?

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.

By reading your arguements I see that you did not consider the same gap theory as I believe in. There are a few different versions out there.

For instance, you ask "did God have to wait some billions of years of working, before He could then have one day off?" The point in the gap theory that I believe in does not teach that the 6 days took billions of years and then He rested, but that they are 6 literal 24 hour days. The gap in time took place between the 1st and 2nd verses. The 6 literal 24 hour days is God repairing the earth. And yes, God did not create the earth as a waste place, but in Genesis 1:2 we see that it is.

There are gap theories out there though that teach each day was 1,000 years, or even billions of years. It sounds more like a theistic evolution theory than a gap theory but they do pin Gap Theory to the name.

 

[Tiredknight]

I firmly bleieve in a literal 6 day creation of the world.

There is only one problem that i can see with the book of Genesis. When i get to heaven i will God and he will explain everything and it will be good.

Here is my one and only problem.

I 100% fully agree with the world, the universe and everything in it being created in 6 days. HOWEVER I do not see any where in genesis where the bible says how long from the last of the 6 days to the day that Adam and eve were kicked out of the garden. WE ALSO do not know id the number of years Adam lived, was from the moment he was created or from the moment he began to die. There is nothing in the bible that states how long that period of time from the last day of creation to the day adam ate of the fruit is.

 

[Habakk]

And yes, God did not create the earth as a waste place, but in Genesis 1:2 we see that it is.

Genesis 1:2 is probably written in the pluperfect tense. Genesis 1:1-2 could be rendered from the Hebrew as “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth; but, the latter not coming into view….”

 

[Matariki]

Other - Progressive Creationism.

God created new forms of life gradually over a period of hundreds of million years. The age of the universe and earth is consistent with what modern science claims.

Universe - 13.75 billion years.
Earth - 4.54 billion years.

New kinds of plants and animals appeared successively over the earth's history, in which God inspired. Progressive creationism rejects macro evolution (although I personally don't know enough about evolution yet to make a decision on where I stand). Our common ancestors (homosapien) are Adam and Eve, whom I believe were literal individuals.

 

[KWCrazy]

God created new forms of life gradually over a period of hundreds of million years. The age of the universe and earth is consistent with what modern science claims.

Unfortunately, that's not what God claimed.

 

[pgp_protector]

Unfortunately, that's not what God claimed.

Correction, That's not what a Literal Reading of the Bible claimed, or are you saying that a Literal Reading of the Bible IS God?

 

[Tiredknight]

Correction, That's not what a Literal Reading of the Bible claimed, or are you saying that a Literal Reading of the Bible IS God?

The bible says 6 days... How can the be interpreted in any other way?

 

[pgp_protector]

The bible says 6 days... How can the be interpreted in any other way?

The bible also says that a Seed Dies when planted, but as we know that isn't true.

 

[Partaker of Christ]

By reading your arguements I see that you did not consider the same gap theory as I believe in. There are a few different versions out there.

For instance, you ask "did God have to wait some billions of years of working, before He could then have one day off?" The point in the gap theory that I believe in does not teach that the 6 days took billions of years and then He rested, but that they are 6 literal 24 hour days. The gap in time took place between the 1st and 2nd verses. The 6 literal 24 hour days is God repairing the earth. And yes, God did not create the earth as a waste place, but in Genesis 1:2 we see that it is.

There are gap theories out there though that teach each day was 1,000 years, or even billions of years. It sounds more like a theistic evolution theory than a gap theory but they do pin Gap Theory to the name.

Verse 1 is part of the work of His creating. If you put a gap between verse 1 and verse 2 (or anywhere else) it is inclusive of the work He did, from which He rested from on the seventh day.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There was no option for "both", thus I can't answer the poll.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Unfortunately, that's not what God claimed.

Scripture also doesn't tell us how a fetus develops in the womb; that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Scripture isn't interested in teaching us science; it's interested in proclaiming to us the God who created all things, who sustains all things, and who is redeeming all things.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rev Randy]

If I have learned any thing from this thread, it is that you guys can confuse a person beyond belief. I started over and read this from the perspective of a non believer. From that perspective this is all I came away with.
"If you don't believe exactly as I do your stupid and not a Christian."
Now I wonder, was that anyone's intent? Is this simple point of belief really worth that?

 

[New_Wineskin]

The bible says 6 days... How can the be interpreted in any other way?

Since the Scriptures indicate that the days were defined differently than today , *that* is how it would be interpreted another way .