Created by extra-terrestrials

[BjorkIsCool]

What if humans were created by extra-terrestrials from some where else in the universe?

The beings not of our state (ie. divine being/God) create the universe and life evolves. Whats to say this life won't someday be able to create/enginer life itself. Well nothing really, its very likely they would; cant we-humanity enginer life to an extent even presently.

So extra-terrestrials come to Earth and created us, 'in their own image'.

Any thoughts?

 

[gfleece]

Yes I have a thought. I think you have missed a relationship with God. If you knew the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob you would know that this is not true. There is nothing to lead me to believe that aliens exist, let alone are responsible for us. To turn your question back on itself, how do you know that all of the "UFO" sitings are not demons presenting themselves to people to take their mind and focus off of God?

 

[Jester4kicks]

Yes I have a thought. I think you have missed a relationship with God. If you knew the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob you would know that this is not true. There is nothing to lead me to believe that aliens exist, let alone are responsible for us. To turn your question back on itself, how do you know that all of the "UFO" sitings are not demons presenting themselves to people to take their mind and focus off of God?

Just to make sure I got that... you'll accept the idea that "demons" can manifest themselves... but you won't accept the possibility that there is other life somewhere else in the universe?

Anyway, the idea that life on earth was "seeded" is not new... but I'm still not sure if I believe it. Personally, I have no doubt that there is life somewhere out there... but I don't think they have traveled to earth.

 

[gfleece]

I am not saying that it is impossible to have life elsewhere in the universe. I actually think it likely, though the scriptures are silent on the issue. I don't believe that ufo sitings are demons, I think it more likely that they are governmentally affiliated. The whole point of my post was to express that God, as known by millions of people around the world, is not an alien. He is a holy, sovereign God who created us to befriend us.

 

[lemmings]

What if humans were created by extra-terrestrials from some where else in the universe?

The beings not of our state (ie. divine being/God) create the universe and life evolves. Whats to say this life won't someday be able to create/enginer life itself. Well nothing really, its very likely they would; cant we-humanity enginer life to an extent even presently.

So extra-terrestrials come to Earth and created us, 'in their own image'.

Any thoughts?

For an extra terrestrial race to build humans in their own image, they would have had to insert genetic material into our distant ancestors. The issue is that as we look at simpler life forms, they begin to possess less of our DNA. This means that as life evolved, it created this genetic material itself.

For a mechanical analogy: early life was a bicycle, humans are cars. A person can look at a car and figure out how a bicycle should work because every part in a bicycle has an analogous part in the car. A person cannot look at a bicycle and instantly know how a car should work, there are simply too many parts that don’t exist yet.

If aliens seeded life on the Earth, they did so only in the sense that they watered the pot. They didn’t care what grew in the pot.

 

[Jester4kicks]

For an extra terrestrial race to build humans in their own image, they would have had to insert genetic material into our distant ancestors. The issue is that as we look at simpler life forms, they begin to possess less of our DNA. This means that as life evolved, it created this genetic material itself.

For a mechanical analogy: early life was a bicycle, humans are cars. A person can look at a car and figure out how a bicycle should work because every part in a bicycle has an analogous part in the car. A person cannot look at a bicycle and instantly know how a car should work, there are simply too many parts that don’t exist yet.

If aliens seeded life on the Earth, they did so only in the sense that they watered the pot. They didn’t care what grew in the pot.

As I have already stated, I'm not a fan of the seeded-life idea... but your analogy is based on a bad premise.

You've assumed that the supposed aliens that seeded life would have done so with their own DNA. I don't believe this is a fair assumption. First, it makes more sense to seed life with the most basic forms of life possible. For example, if we were to seed life on another world, we would probably attempt to do so with a very basic form of algae. Not only does this allow us to see if the current environment will support the basic elements of life, but it also leads to diversity of life...

...which brings me to my second point; diversity. If the life that was seeded was already in a evolved, or even semi-evolved state, seeding it would be conter-productive. The life would have evolved based on condition present in the enviroment it developed in. Seeding it in another environment would not ensure it's survival. Furthermore, seeding life with a developed genetic code might make it more difficult for those organisms to diversify themselves and develop into a full biological system.

Now, one alternative might be that the aliens that seeded life did so with numerous pieces of DNA. This would be the equivalent of us seeding another planet with genetic information from algae, pine trees, dolphins, and humans. Once again, I tend to disagree with this assumption, because seeding life of that complexity would be pointless if there was not an existing ecosystem to support that life already in place.

Edit: I just reread your post... I think I just spent the last 10 minutes presenting a case that agreed with you.

 

[lemmings]

Edit: I just reread your post... I think I just spent the last 10 minutes presenting a case that agreed with you.

.

 

[Jester4kicks]

.

My feelings exactly.

 

[BjorkIsCool]

Im talking about creating us about 200,000 years ago; year based on when modern humans start to appear in the fossil record. So evolution doesnt really have to come into it.

But sure DNA of a pre-human ancestor of ours could have been used in the creation.

Other things like humans only a portion of our brain may point to genetic engineering.

Every early culture has a creation myth followed by a flood myth which tell us we were created by something and then there was a destructive flood. Maybe if it wasnt for the flood, which could have been the ending of the ice age about 13,000 years ago, Earth would be a very different place. Only contemplating though...

Yes I have a thought. I think you have missed a relationship with God. If you knew the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob you would know that this is not true. There is nothing to lead me to believe that aliens exist, let alone are responsible for us. To turn your question back on itself, how do you know that all of the "UFO" sitings are not demons presenting themselves to people to take their mind and focus off of God?

Demons (as in biblical demons) cant display themselves in our 3D realm. As far as i know that is.

 

[gluadys]

Every early culture has a creation myth followed by a flood myth

Not quite. Many early cultures did not have a flood myth. Egyptian culture for example, had no Noah-type flood myth. Only tales related to the seasonal flooding of the Nile.

 

[Merlin]

What if humans were created by extra-terrestrials from some where else in the universe?

Any thoughts?

He did.
we call Him God. (YHWH)

 

[busterdog]

He did.
we call Him God. (YHWH)

Amen.

Well, FTR, as one who acceps evolution, I think alien involvement is as unlikely as YEC.

It is not logically impossible (anymore than YEC is logically impossible). For me, the evidence for each of those propositions are equally unlikely.

If we look at it as a matter of probability, how is it that they could be equal?

What you end up doing in either event is looking at issues extremely difficult to address by comparison.

Looking at a few different factors, 1. one component of YEC theory (God) loves us, but aliens are at best an unknown; 2. one has a proven record of miracles (the resurrection) and another is at best mysterious; 3. one component of YEC theory (God) is real, while the alternate cause (aliens) is at best an unknown.

Now, if one were to look, for example, at the fossil record, an argument can be made that YEC is impossible based upon your view of the evidence, but that another complete unknown is at least not in any open conflict with the fossil record (aliens). However, the latter view simply benefits from a complete lack of any restraint in conditions other than one's imagination. That being said, how is a rational comparison made? The pitfall (perhaps not yours) is that the lack of any conditions or restraints makes the notion of aliens palatable. As a complete unknown, such ideas have no business being discussed in terms of probability or improbability. If the alien can be posulated to be whatever you want it to be, how is its use in origins matters helpful in any way?

Obviously the notion that alien origins are worth consideration while YEC is not is something that seems illogical and troubling to YECs.

 

[Jester4kicks]

If we look at it as a matter of probability, how is it that they could be equal?

What you end up doing in either event is looking at issues extremely difficult to address by comparison.

Looking at a few different factors, 1. one component of YEC theory (God) loves us, but aliens are at best an unknown; 2. one has a proven record of miracles (the resurrection) and another is at best mysterious; 3. one component of YEC theory (God) is real, while the alternate cause (aliens) is at best an unknown.

Everything in blue is based on the bible.
Everything in red could be based on the National Inquirer.

Since I give equal credence to both, both are equally improbable.

See how easy that was?

 

[Tinker Grey]

The evidence is that evolution occurs and has occurred and that the earth is very old. As such, the only way YEC could be true is the Omphalos argument (which has the theological problem of God's dishonesty) -- that is, effectively God used magic.

Now, WRT aliens: By all that we know, the distances are too far from anywhere to travel where there might be life sustaining planets via sub-light speeds. Super-light speeds are impossible because one cannot accelerate to the speed-of-light and hitting the speed of light (as far as we know) causes a divide-by-zero error in the math. So either aliens know how to use worm-holes or they know how to build space-ships to sustain entire eco-systems and generations of beings while they travel. As it has been famously said, sufficiently advanced technology appears to be magic to a society not as advanced.

So, we have God -> magic and aliens -> magic. Magic/magic == 50/50.

At least the alien theory doesn't require that God lied to us.

 

[Jester4kicks]

The evidence is that evolution occurs and has occurred and that the earth is very old. As such, the only way YEC could be true is the Omphalos argument (which has the theological problem of God's dishonesty) -- that is, effectively God used magic.

Now, WRT aliens: By all that we know, the distances are too far from anywhere to travel where there might be life sustaining planets via sub-light speeds. Super-light speeds are impossible because one cannot accelerate to the speed-of-light and hitting the speed of light (as far as we know) causes a divide-by-zero error in the math. So either aliens know how to use worm-holes or they know how to build space-ships to sustain entire eco-systems and generations of beings while they travel. As it has been famously said, sufficiently advanced technology appears to be magic to a society not as advanced.

So, we have God -> magic and aliens -> magic. Magic/magic == 50/50.

At least the alien theory doesn't require that God lied to us.

Not to try and give credence to the argument... and not to hijack the thread... but do you really think it's THAT impossible that an extra-terrestrial species would have developed the ability to travel inter-solar system or intergalaxy?

I agree that faster-than-light travel is impossible... so don't think that I'm challenging basic physics here... but there's been plenty of speculation regarding how intergalaxy travel could be achieved. (TV references provided for those that haven't ever heard of these methods)

Star Trek ideas:
Warp-drive: Essentially, you have a ship that is encased in a field, and then compresses space ahead of it. It then travels across the compressed space. For visual aid:
Instead of traveling this far (pretend each hash is, say, 100,000 miles)-
|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|

You travel this far-
|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|.|

Worm holes: I'm not as familiar with the concept, and it's been thrown around a LOT in various movies and shows. Essentially though, you have an (optimally) stable "tunnel" through space that allows for passage from one part of the universe to another.

Event Horizon theory:
Folding space: Instead of compressing space, space is folded so that the origination point and the destination point occupy the same location in space. (Of course, if you believe the movie, there's a gap between the points where hell resides )

Bottom line, each of these theories provide for "work arounds" of the faster-than-light limitation. Not saying I particulary believe any of these ideas would actually work... and hollywood certainly isn't the authority on quantum physics... but it's kinda fun to think about these possibilities anyway. (Or maybe I'm just a geek)

 

[busterdog]

Everything in blue is based on the bible.
Everything in red could be based on the National Inquirer.

Since I give equal credence to both, both are equally improbable.

See how easy that was?

Yeah. That's helpful.

 

[Jester4kicks]

Next contestant please.

I'm sorry, I think you meant to insert an actual retort there.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Not to try and give credence to the argument... and not to hijack the thread... but do you really think it's THAT impossible that an extra-terrestrial species would have developed the ability to travel inter-solar system or intergalaxy?

Well, I don't know what I said that warranted a capital "THAT".

But my basic point is that if someone could support a stable worm-hole or fold space or jump the speed-of-light barrier, their technology is so far advanced as to appear as magic.

So my imagining God magicking stuff into place making it look old is similar to my imagining some unknown species magicking themselves across time & space to spawn us. (Makes one wonder why they'd want to.)

To add to the 50/50 feel that I projected, there is as little evidence for aliens as there is for YEC ... that is to say, none.

Now, suppose aliens really did have something to do with us: Who created the aliens? Or, how did they evolve? Or, how did abiogensis work on their planet?

IOW, for YEC to be actually true (to me) suggests Omphalos which suggests God's dishonesty. Aliens-Theory, OTOH, is just a way of pushing the origin problem off our planet. While AT may be an interesting topic, without evidence it's just a mind game.

YMMV

 

[Melethiel]

Christian theology and the idea of extraterrestrial seeding are kind of incompatible.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Why? If one accepts that God used evolution, why not allow that God might use aliens?

The difference, of course, is that evolution has evidence.

I don't know, though, that ET seeding is inherently incompatible with theology.

I know you didn't say "inherent", but "kind of". Do you want to elaborate?