Cop 1 Mistakenly Shoots Cop 2, Lets Cop 2 Think Suspect Fired, Cop 2 Shoots Suspect in Back

[keith99]

Last year the police were called to my address because of a loud and disturbing “house” party. As I answered the door the officers were very short and belligerent to me and kept trying to squeeze in to arrest me and the other perpetrators at this address but I would not let them in. One unsnapped his sidearm and the other grabbed his pepper spray. I did not want to be sprayed so I agreed to the illegal search. I was handcuffed “for my safety” and my house was thoroughly searched. No one home but the handcuffed fat guy and no evidence of a party or music, but I did get my religion mocked a few times. I was un-cuffed and they left with no apology and they drove across the street to the house having the party.

For future reference, one suggestion is never consent to a search, instead say you do not consent to a search but will not resist a search.

Not that I always follow that, but if the situation is one where you have cause to distrust the police consenting to a search leaves the door wide open, you have just invited them to go fishing. In fact in one fairly recent interaction I invited the police to take a look. The problem was a {explicative deleted} neighbor claimed we had someone living in the rather small camper parked out front. Police were nice, in fact the lead officer alerted me to how my neighbor could have got me, calling parking enforcement, and what to watch for, chalk marks on the tires. (Just so people know the vast majority of cities have a 72 hour limit on any on street parking which is pretty much enforced if someone complains).

 

[Butterfly99]

Last year the police were called to my address because of a loud and disturbing “house” party. As I answered the door the officers were very short and belligerent to me and kept trying to squeeze in to arrest me and the other perpetrators at this address but I would not let them in. One unsnapped his sidearm and the other grabbed his pepper spray. I did not want to be sprayed so I agreed to the illegal search. I was handcuffed “for my safety” and my house was thoroughly searched. No one home but the handcuffed fat guy and no evidence of a party or music, but I did get my religion mocked a few times. I was un-cuffed and they left with no apology and they drove across the street to the house having the party.

That's crazy! They seriously couldn't tell that the party was across the street & not at your house?Maybe they were the ones who should've been arrested cause they were drunk or something. Cause how else can you be that dumb. Ppl are unreal sometimes.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That's crazy! They seriously couldn't tell that the party was across the street & not at your house?Maybe they were the ones who should've been arrested cause they were drunk or something. Cause how else can you be that dumb. Ppl are unreal sometimes.

Their paperwork indicated my address.

 

[Butterfly99]

Their paperwork indicated my address.

Oh, I see. Well but they should have figured it out when they were at your house that the party wasn't at your house. It still is a smh kinda thing to me.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Oh, I see. Well but they should have figured it out when they were at your house that the party wasn't at your house. It still is a smh kinda thing to me.

I was thinking the same myself.

 

[Butterfly99]

I just did a bit of insomnia-induced reading about this, because considering my luck with being smacked with biking citations I wanted to know whether I was required to register my bikes that are in LA. Fortunately, I'm not, and neither was Aguilar. According to the LA Times, Long Beach eliminated the law mandating bike registration five years ago. Bike Long Beach should update that page. It does clarify on another page on their site that they do not require bike registration but recommend it so the bike is identified as yours.

I'm 94% certain apartment buildings do not qualify as a business area in Long Beach or elsewhere in LA, because if they did a huge swath of the city as well as the county would be classified as such. Some buildings are mixed residential and retail, but the majority are not. Long Beach prides itself on being the "most bike friendly city in America," and if you couldn't bike in any area with apartment buildings without fear of a citation it would make it one of the most intolerant cities of bikers. Besides the tonier gated communities I don't know of too many areas there where there aren't apartment buildings.



Los Angeles is the name of both the massive county and the highly populated city. Long Beach is a city within Los Angeles County. You do not have to register your bike in Los Angeles, the city, or in Long Beach. Once upon a time you had to register them in Santa Monica and Beverly Hills, but it's not mandatory in either city anymore; both cities do provide optional bike registration for residents. Some cities in LA County might require bike registration, but I'm not aware of them. Each city has its own ordinances, and its own discretion in how they are enforced. I discovered that the aggravating way when I was given a $197 citation for being a minor not wearing a bike helmet on a day of record-breaking beastly heat and Santa Ana winds that felt like a hundred hot blow dryers pointed at you. Most people weren't wearing helmets for mellow leisure rides that day. A police lady just stopped me randomly and cited me. I went to the police station the next day to ask them about it, and the officers were visibly flabbergasted. This one kept saying "that can't be right." And then he went and found out that in fact, it was right for that city. If I'd been an eight of a mile away over the city borders I'd have just been given a reminder to wear my helmet next time because that's their policy.

At my college we do have to register our bikes and will get cited if we don't. You just get a sticker with the registration number and expiration date that you put on your bike. It only cost $3.50 and is valid for three years. It would be kind of adorable to have tiny bike plates, though.

Anyhoooo. I need to get some zzzzzs. I doubt the actual reason for the stop was related to any bike-related offense.

Thx for explaining about Long Beach being in LA the county. Our county doesn't have the same name as any of the cities.

$197 for not wearing your bike helmet is crazy!!!!! That sux so much.

Hope you did great @ the marathon!

 

[Cimorene]

Thx for explaining about Long Beach being in LA the county. Our county doesn't have the same name as any of the cities.

$197 for not wearing your bike helmet is crazy!!!!! That sux so much.

Hope you did great @ the marathon!

I was shocked about that too because it's swindling kids. $197 for not wearing a helmet is insane. I know Ella lives in a wealthy neighborhood but a lot of kids couldn't afford that.

That story about what the officers did is way more insane. At least it doesn't sound like there are plans for riots over it.

 

[JustOneWay]

Link includes both enhanced and un-enhanced versions of the full video.

Cops protecting....

themselves.

That is who they protect the most and best. As for protecting the rest of us, not so much.

 

[Belk]

As is always the case in incidents such as this, if blame is to be assigned there is plenty to go around. If Aguilar had not run from the cops, fought with the cops and resisted arrest he would still be alive. If the police order you to stop you stop, and if the detention is unwarranted or unlawful you hire a lawyer and take them to court after. Because, you know, you will still be alive to do so.

But no, we have a large segment of society which appears to believe when confronted by police they are completely justified in resisting from beginning to end and there should be no consequences because all cops are just racist pigs looking to kill themselves a minority because that is why cops exist.

Are the police justified in shooting you if you resist arrest?

 

[The Cadet]

As is always the case in incidents such as this, if blame is to be assigned there is plenty to go around. If Aguilar had not run from the cops, fought with the cops and resisted arrest he would still be alive. If the police order you to stop you stop, and if the detention is unwarranted or unlawful you hire a lawyer and take them to court after. Because, you know, you will still be alive to do so.

But no, we have a large segment of society which appears to believe when confronted by police they are completely justified in resisting from beginning to end and there should be no consequences because all cops are just racist pigs looking to kill themselves a minority because that is why cops exist.

Hey, there's a great idea. Let's blame the guy who got executed for the actions of the police. "She made me hit her!" Or, you know, we could be honest and admit that shooting a disarmed suspect for the crime of resisting arrest, particularly if the impetus for this shooting is a lie, is not okay. Yeah, obviously Aguilar could have treated the situation better (he already had two strikes, after all), but a disarmed man resisting arrest is not a situation where lethal force is necessary. Let's not blame the man for getting shot; he neither pulled the trigger nor created a situation where his death was necessary.

I mean, look at what you're saying - "don't resist, don't run, otherwise they might kill you". In what universe is this okay?! In what universe is it okay for the police to apply deadly force when faced with a disarmed combatant, particularly one guilty of no significant crime? There is not another first-world country with this kind of problem. In Germany, these police would be out of a job and on trial for murder.

 

[Nithavela]

Hey, there's a great idea. Let's blame the guy who got executed for the actions of the police. "She made me hit her!" Or, you know, we could be honest and admit that shooting a disarmed suspect for the crime of resisting arrest, particularly if the impetus for this shooting is a lie, is not okay. Yeah, obviously Aguilar could have treated the situation better (he already had two strikes, after all), but a disarmed man resisting arrest is not a situation where lethal force is necessary. Let's not blame the man for getting shot; he neither pulled the trigger nor created a situation where his death was necessary.

I mean, look at what you're saying - "don't resist, don't run, otherwise they might kill you". In what universe is this okay?! In what universe is it okay for the police to apply deadly force when faced with a disarmed combatant, particularly one guilty of no significant crime? There is not another first-world country with this kind of problem. In Germany, these police would be out of a job and on trial for murder.

Germany has it's own problems with police violence. People don't get killed as often, but they do get unneccessarily hurt, and there is a wall of silence as well. The police in bavaria are especially notorious for that.

 

[The Cadet]

Germany has it's own problems with police violence. People don't get killed as often, but they do get unneccessarily hurt, and there is a wall of silence as well. The police in bavaria are especially notorious for that.

Really? I haven't heard much about this. Then again, I'm weiß wie Toastbrot, so...

Still, police shootings the likes of which the US has are virtually unheard of.

 

[Nithavela]

Really? I haven't heard much about this. Then again, I'm weiß wie Toastbrot, so...

Still, police shootings the likes of which the US has are virtually unheard of.

http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/reportage/spiegel-tv-reportage-bayrische-polizei-pruegelt-a-878340.html

Want me to translate that for you?

 

[The Cadet]

http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/reportage/spiegel-tv-reportage-bayrische-polizei-pruegelt-a-878340.html

Want me to translate that for you?

...That is extremely depressing. Still, at least people aren't dying at the same rate. A small victory is still a victory, after all, and a victory can be rubbed in people's faces.

 

[Nithavela]

 

[Sistrin]

Hey, there's a great idea. Let's blame the guy who got executed for the actions of the police.

I said Aguilar shared in the blame for this incident because his actions clearly escalated the situation. And you know what? I am correct. He was armed, he resisted the police from the moment they initiated contact and continued to resist until the moment of his death. Those facts are what are known of as contributing factors.

I did not say the police were justified in shooting him. That is a matter for the investigative body to decide. As should have been readily apparent my point spoke to the ever more prevalent narrative being promoted that all confrontations between the police and any minority are racially motivated, and therefore resisting or attacking the police is justified.

You tell me. Once the police had Aguilar disarmed and on the ground, what was his justification for continuing to fight against them?

Or, you know, we could be honest and admit that shooting a disarmed suspect for the crime of resisting arrest, particularly if the impetus for this shooting is a lie, is not okay.

The impetus for the shooting was a tragic mistake, not a lie. The officer who shot Aguilar had himself just been shot, and believed at that moment it was Aguilar who had done so. The fact it was the other Officer is what will, I believe, ultimately lead to both of these cops losing their jobs and being prosecuted to varying degrees.

I mean, look at what you're saying - "don't resist, don't run, otherwise they might kill you".

That is not at all what I said.

In what universe is it okay for the police to apply deadly force when faced with a disarmed combatant, particularly one guilty of no significant crime?

The question of most import is why the first cop drew his weapon and fired. The actions of the second cop derived from that. However I say again if Aguilar had not escalated the situation by resisting he would be alive at this moment urging his lawyer to file a lawsuit for wrongful arrest.

In Germany, these police would be out of a job and on trial for murder.

And it appears the same is happening here.

 

[Nithavela]

And it appears the same is happening here.

From the OP article (bolding mine):

The sheriff's department said in a statement that an internal affairs investigation has been completed, and a force review committee will decide next month whether there were any policy, tactical, supervisory or training violations. Both deputies are back at work in the field, the statement said.

Also, the case was closed in the first instance and only reopened when that video surfaced.

 

[The Cadet]

My apologies; my response was of unreasonable tone. This kind of issue just gets me really mad, and I hate to see anything resembling victim-blaming. #Triggered?

That is not at all what I said.

It's the implication of this attitude, "Never resist, if you get shot, it's your fault". Obviously he shouldn't have resisted arrest. But at the point where he's been disarmed, lethal force should be off the table. This isn't the only such case, either. There are plenty of cases of the police shooting fleeing suspects in the back (thankfully Michael Slager is facing what should be a very short trial), shooting people who display no immediate threat or are not or barely armed... And all too often, we have people acting as apologists for these actions.

And it appears the same is happening here.

I wish.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No biggie, I'm sure I'll get adequate medical care in the well-maintained prisons of the USA. After all, it's one of their biggest industries.

We can thank our wonderful "war on drugs" for that nice little statistic. We waste millions putting recreational drug users in jail (who weren't bothering anyone else).

 

[Nithavela]

We can thank our wonderful "war on drugs" for that nice little statistic. We waste millions putting recreational drug users in jail (who weren't bothering anyone else).

It seems that everything the USA declares war on anything, be it a country, an organisation or a simple concept like crime or drugs, the situation just gets downhill from there.

What's with all the martial rhetoric, anyway?