Cop 1 Mistakenly Shoots Cop 2, Lets Cop 2 Think Suspect Fired, Cop 2 Shoots Suspect in Back

[Sistrin]

As is always the case in incidents such as this, if blame is to be assigned there is plenty to go around. If Aguilar had not run from the cops, fought with the cops and resisted arrest he would still be alive. If the police order you to stop you stop, and if the detention is unwarranted or unlawful you hire a lawyer and take them to court after. Because, you know, you will still be alive to do so.

But no, we have a large segment of society which appears to believe when confronted by police they are completely justified in resisting from beginning to end and there should be no consequences because all cops are just racist pigs looking to kill themselves a minority because that is why cops exist.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Technically speaking riding a bicycle on the sidewalk is illegal, that gives them an excuse to stop him. I'd say about half the time adults who ride the sidewalk also engage in reckless behavior and that would give them a reason to stop him.

Are you certain it's always illegal to ride your bike on a sidewalk in Long Beach? I thought the ordinances varied by municipality, and that while it is illegal in business districts and within certain zones, it is in fact permissible in some areas so long as the biker yields to any pedestrians. Long Beach Boulevard covers a lot of territory so I don't know his specific location on it, and whether the sidewalks on that stretch were brimming with vendors and children or virtually vacant with very little risk of utilizing them for biking. I know kids (which includes teens who could easily pass as being adults) were actually encouraged to ride on the virtually empty sidewalks near the center where I used to be a volunteer arts teacher because the risk was far too substantial on the dilapidated streets with aggressive and often inattentive drivers and no bike lanes.

I don't think the article references any reckless behavior he was engaging in, or cite him biking on the sidewalk as the reason the officers gave for stopping him, does it? I read it while my brain was already asleep.

Eta: http://www.bikelongbeach.org/sos-safety/safety/municipal-vehicle-codes

It is not universally illegal to ride on sidewalks there, but it is illegal to in specified areas. I don't know whether he was in one of those areas.

 

[keith99]

Are you certain it's always illegal to ride your bike on a sidewalk in Long Beach? I thought the ordinances varied by municipality, and that while it is illegal in business districts and within certain zones, it is in fact permissible in some areas so long as the biker yields to any pedestrians. Long Beach Boulevard covers a lot of territory so I don't know his specific location on it, and whether the sidewalks on that stretch were brimming with vendors and children or virtually vacant with very little risk of utilizing them for biking. I know kids (which includes teens who could easily pass as being adults) were actually encouraged to ride on the virtually empty sidewalks near the center where I used to be a volunteer arts teacher because the risk was far too substantial on the dilapidated streets with aggressive and often inattentive drivers and no bike lanes.

I don't think the article references any reckless behavior he was engaging in, or cite him biking on the sidewalk as the reason the officers gave for stopping him, does it? I read it while my brain was already asleep.

Eta: http://www.bikelongbeach.org/sos-safety/safety/municipal-vehicle-codes

It is not universally illegal to ride on sidewalks there, but it is illegal to in specified areas. I don't know whether he was in one of those areas.

I'd bet they had him on this in any case:

Conformance required (10.50.020) No person shall ride or propel any bicycle upon any street, alley, park or bicycle path or other public place in the city which is not registered, or for which the appropriate fee has not been paid or which does not bear a bicycle plate as required by the provisions of this chapter. (Prior code § 6100.231).

Also for what it is worth I have been told that apartment buildings qualify as a business area. If that is true then they had him on the business area provisions.

EDIT: Not that I consider any of these good reasons for a stop, just things that would pass the legal requirements. I'd guess there is a 90% chance the stop was bogus by the standards of ordinary people or clean because of terms of probation and the very place he was riding was a violation of that.

 

[Butterfly99]

I'd bet they had him on this in any case:

Conformance required (10.50.020) No person shall ride or propel any bicycle upon any street, alley, park or bicycle path or other public place in the city which is not registered, or for which the appropriate fee has not been paid or which does not bear a bicycle plate as required by the provisions of this chapter. (Prior code § 6100.231).

Also for what it is worth I have been told that apartment buildings qualify as a business area. If that is true then they had him on the business area provisions.

EDIT: Not that I consider any of these good reasons for a stop, just things that would pass the legal requirements. I'd guess there is a 90% chance the stop was bogus by the standards of ordinary people or clean because of terms of probation and the very place he was riding was a violation of that.

For real? Bikes have to be registered in LA? I've never seen a bike plate. That's OTT. Nah I don't think any of that is why they stopped him. That makes no sense. I think he probably looks like a gang member cause he used to be one & they were profiling him. I've never heard of apartment buildings being businesses. That makes no sense either cause I mean where are kids who live supposed to ride their bikes?

 

[mala]

Because, you know, you will still be alive to do so.

that is highly debatable.
frankly it's hilariously debatable considering past police misconduct.

 

[keith99]

For real? Bikes have to be registered in LA? I've never seen a bike plate. That's OTT. Nah I don't think any of that is why they stopped him. That makes no sense. I think he probably looks like a gang member cause he used to be one & they were profiling him. I've never heard of apartment buildings being businesses. That makes no sense either cause I mean where are kids who live supposed to ride their bikes?

The law does some strange things. I doubt any bike related thing was the reason they stopped him, but there is a slight chance it was the excuse.

Several cities have passed required registration statutes for bikes, few enforce them. It does however give the city a response when someone gets their bike stolen and they want the police to drop everything to find it. My guess is any such city registration requirement will get struck down if challenged, especially in the case of someone who lives elsewhere. But not that many bike riders have the money to mount a court case and almost all the ones who do are riding racing or tri bikes so the police will know who they can hassle and who to back off from. Oh and not L.A. Long Beach, totally different city.

 

[Butterfly99]

The law does some strange things. I doubt any bike related thing was the reason they stopped him, but there is a slight chance it was the excuse.

Several cities have passed required registration statutes for bikes, few enforce them. It does however give the city a response when someone gets their bike stolen and they want the police to drop everything to find it. My guess is any such city registration requirement will get struck down if challenged, especially in the case of someone who lives elsewhere. But not that many bike riders have the money to mount a court case and almost all the ones who do are riding racing or tri bikes so the police will know who they can hassle and who to back off from. Oh and not L.A. Long Beach, totally different city.

That's crazy. How does that even work? Do you guys have baby license plates on your bikes? I thought Long Beach was in LA?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

You have to understand: if you have a police badge here in America it gives you lots of extra rights that most Americans don't have. Now some people will no doubt come on here and claim: "No tulc, they don't have more rights then the average American has!". To which I would ask "If Nithavela and I jumped on an unarmed guy and, while attempting to handcuff him, I accidentally shot Nithavela (sorry dude!) in the stomach and then we both turned around and shot the unarmed guy, do you think the police and the prosecutors would have to even THINK about whether or not we should be arrested? Or prosecuted? Or would we be already halfway through our trial by now?"
tulc(wonders if those magic badges come with coffee makers? cause that would be sweet!)

I had a badge and handcuffed over three hundred people and never shot anyone. I even got slashed on my kneecap with a machete by an angry Hattian and didn’t shoot him. I have never had to go past level five, the expandable baton.

 

[Butterfly99]

I had a badge and handcuffed over three hundred people and never shot anyone. I even got slashed on my kneecap with a machete by an angry Hattian and didn’t shoot him. I have never had to go past level five, the expandable baton.

Wow!

Have you seen the thread yet about the autistic transgender guy who was suicidal & so his friends called the police? Police said he had a knife in a dark hallway & they had to kill him cause they thought he lunged or something. Cause some ppl are saying there that life isn't like a video game or Hollywood & police didn't have a choice but to shoot & kill him when he had a knife. I def. think they had other ways of dealing. You should def. post there. Cause like you said you dealt with all THAT w/out shooting somebody.

Sorry if you did post there & I didn't see it. Sometimes I miss stuff on my phone.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Wow!

Have you seen the thread yet about the autistic transgender guy who was suicidal & so his friends called the police? Police said he had a knife in a dark hallway & they had to kill him cause they thought he lunged or something. Cause some ppl are saying there that life isn't like a video game or Hollywood & police didn't have a choice but to shoot & kill him when he had a knife. I def. think they had other ways of dealing. You should def. post there. Cause like you said you dealt with all THAT w/out shooting somebody.

Sorry if you did post there & I didn't see it. Sometimes I miss stuff on my phone.

I think I was post #2.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

I'd bet they had him on this in any case:

Conformance required (10.50.020) No person shall ride or propel any bicycle upon any street, alley, park or bicycle path or other public place in the city which is not registered, or for which the appropriate fee has not been paid or which does not bear a bicycle plate as required by the provisions of this chapter. (Prior code § 6100.231).

Also for what it is worth I have been told that apartment buildings qualify as a business area. If that is true then they had him on the business area provisions.

EDIT: Not that I consider any of these good reasons for a stop, just things that would pass the legal requirements. I'd guess there is a 90% chance the stop was bogus by the standards of ordinary people or clean because of terms of probation and the very place he was riding was a violation of that.

I just did a bit of insomnia-induced reading about this, because considering my luck with being smacked with biking citations I wanted to know whether I was required to register my bikes that are in LA. Fortunately, I'm not, and neither was Aguilar. According to the LA Times, Long Beach eliminated the law mandating bike registration five years ago. Bike Long Beach should update that page. It does clarify on another page on their site that they do not require bike registration but recommend it so the bike is identified as yours.

I'm 94% certain apartment buildings do not qualify as a business area in Long Beach or elsewhere in LA, because if they did a huge swath of the city as well as the county would be classified as such. Some buildings are mixed residential and retail, but the majority are not. Long Beach prides itself on being the "most bike friendly city in America," and if you couldn't bike in any area with apartment buildings without fear of a citation it would make it one of the most intolerant cities of bikers. Besides the tonier gated communities I don't know of too many areas there where there aren't apartment buildings.

For real? Bikes have to be registered in LA? I've never seen a bike plate. That's OTT. Nah I don't think any of that is why they stopped him. That makes no sense. I think he probably looks like a gang member cause he used to be one & they were profiling him. I've never heard of apartment buildings being businesses. That makes no sense either cause I mean where are kids who live supposed to ride their bikes?

Los Angeles is the name of both the massive county and the highly populated city. Long Beach is a city within Los Angeles County. You do not have to register your bike in Los Angeles, the city, or in Long Beach. Once upon a time you had to register them in Santa Monica and Beverly Hills, but it's not mandatory in either city anymore; both cities do provide optional bike registration for residents. Some cities in LA County might require bike registration, but I'm not aware of them. Each city has its own ordinances, and its own discretion in how they are enforced. I discovered that the aggravating way when I was given a $197 citation for being a minor not wearing a bike helmet on a day of record-breaking beastly heat and Santa Ana winds that felt like a hundred hot blow dryers pointed at you. Most people weren't wearing helmets for mellow leisure rides that day. A police lady just stopped me randomly and cited me. I went to the police station the next day to ask them about it, and the officers were visibly flabbergasted. This one kept saying "that can't be right." And then he went and found out that in fact, it was right for that city. If I'd been an eight of a mile away over the city borders I'd have just been given a reminder to wear my helmet next time because that's their policy.

At my college we do have to register our bikes and will get cited if we don't. You just get a sticker with the registration number and expiration date that you put on your bike. It only cost $3.50 and is valid for three years. It would be kind of adorable to have tiny bike plates, though.

Anyhoooo. I need to get some zzzzzs. I doubt the actual reason for the stop was related to any bike-related offense.

 

[Armoured]

More people with guns would have stopped this situation.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I just did a bit of insomnia-induced reading about this, because considering my luck with being smacked with biking citations I wanted to know whether I was required to register my bikes that are in LA. Fortunately, I'm not, and neither was Aguilar. According to the LA Times, Long Beach eliminated the law mandating bike registration five years ago. Bike Long Beach should update that page. It does clarify on another page on their site that they do not require bike registration but recommend it so the bike is identified as yours.

I'm 94% certain apartment buildings do not qualify as a business area in Long Beach or elsewhere in LA, because if they did a huge swath of the city as well as the county would be classified as such. Some buildings are mixed residential and retail, but the majority are not. Long Beach prides itself on being the "most bike friendly city in America," and if you couldn't bike in any area with apartment buildings without fear of a citation it would make it one of the most intolerant cities of bikers. Besides the tonier gated communities I don't know of too many areas there where there aren't apartment buildings.



Los Angeles is the name of both the massive county and the highly populated city. Long Beach is a city within Los Angeles County. You do not have to register your bike in Los Angeles, the city, or in Long Beach. Once upon a time you had to register them in Santa Monica and Beverly Hills, but it's not mandatory in either city anymore; both cities do provide optional bike registration for residents. Some cities in LA County might require bike registration, but I'm not aware of them. Each city has its own ordinances, and its own discretion in how they are enforced. I discovered that the aggravating way when I was given a $197 citation for being a minor not wearing a bike helmet on a day of record-breaking beastly heat and Santa Ana winds that felt like a hundred hot blow dryers pointed at you. Most people weren't wearing helmets for mellow leisure rides that day. A police lady just stopped me randomly and cited me. I went to the police station the next day to ask them about it, and the officers were visibly flabbergasted. This one kept saying "that can't be right." And then he went and found out that in fact, it was right for that city. If I'd been an eight of a mile away over the city borders I'd have just been given a reminder to wear my helmet next time because that's their policy.

At my college we do have to register our bikes and will get cited if we don't. You just get a sticker with the registration number and expiration date that you put on your bike. It only cost $3.50 and is valid for three years. It would be kind of adorable to have tiny bike plates, though.

Anyhoooo. I need to get some zzzzzs. I doubt the actual reason for the stop was related to any bike-related offense.

How did you place in the marathon?

 

[trunks2k]

That's crazy. How does that even work? Do you guys have baby license plates on your bikes? I thought Long Beach was in LA?

That's the essential idea, but in none of the areas that have instituted registration requirements for bicycles has it worked. Next to nobody registers their bikes, and the cost to run such a system outweighs the actual use of the system that areas that have implemented such laws repealed them or just stopped doing anything to fulfill or enforce the law.

Not just in the US either. In Canada (I want to say Toronto), they tried something similar with the same results and repealed the law.

 

[Sistrin]

that is highly debatable.
frankly it's hilariously debatable considering past police misconduct.

You think so fine, make some sort of actual case for your position.

 

[keith99]

How did you place in the marathon?

She is most likely still running!

She said tomorrow early Saturday morning. Honestly that fooled me too until I turned on the tele and saw the end of the coverage of the LA marathon. With end meaning the pros had finished. Ordinary people will be trickling in for a couple of hours.

I hindsight I should not have been fooled, she has a pretty strong tendency of saying things like 'In a few hours' when up in the early morning hours and something is happening in the morning of what we think of as tomorrow that really is today.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

She is most likely still running!

She said tomorrow early Saturday morning. Honestly that fooled me too until I turned on the tele and saw the end of the coverage of the LA marathon. With end meaning the pros had finished. Ordinary people will be trickling in for a couple of hours.

I hindsight I should not have been fooled, she has a pretty strong tendency of saying things like 'In a few hours' when up in the early morning hours and something is happening in the morning of what we think of as tomorrow that really is today.

California Time!!!
Obama!!!

 

[iluvatar5150]

As is always the case in incidents such as this, if blame is to be assigned there is plenty to go around. If Aguilar had not run from the cops, fought with the cops and resisted arrest he would still be alive. If the police order you to stop you stop, and if the detention is unwarranted or unlawful you hire a lawyer and take them to court after. Because, you know, you will still be alive to do so.

But no, we have a large segment of society which appears to believe when confronted by police they are completely justified in resisting from beginning to end and there should be no consequences because all cops are just racist pigs looking to kill themselves a minority because that is why cops exist.

I'm more inclined to believe that, these days, the bigger problem is police with control/power issues and police who have no regard for proper use of lethal force.

 

[keith99]

Long Beach prides itself on being the "most bike friendly city in America," and if you couldn't bike in any area with apartment buildings without fear of a citation it would make it one of the most intolerant cities of bikers. Besides the tonier gated communities I don't know of too many areas there where there aren't apartment buildings.

Checked a couple of sites and Long Beach never was even best in California, San Francisco always beat them and that was with size limits that tend to exclude actual bike friendly cities.

I was shocked when I saw the most bike friendly claim because the 'must use sidepath if useable' regulation is extremely bike unfriendly. Sidepaths are often 'useable' but nasty. Also they often stop and start making a long trip that has sidepaths an adventure in detours.

In general bike friendly means infrastructure to keep bikes away from cars, sometimes that really is bike friendly, others it is for the benefit of cars, not bikes.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Last year the police were called to my address because of a loud and disturbing “house” party. As I answered the door the officers were very short and belligerent to me and kept trying to squeeze in to arrest me and the other perpetrators at this address but I would not let them in. One unsnapped his sidearm and the other grabbed his pepper spray. I did not want to be sprayed so I agreed to the illegal search. I was handcuffed “for my safety” and my house was thoroughly searched. No one home but the handcuffed fat guy and no evidence of a party or music, but I did get my religion mocked a few times. I was un-cuffed and they left with no apology and they drove across the street to the house having the party.