Islam Contradiction in the Quran

Niblo

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Hi Paul.
Therefore you have proved my point, since your explanation is contrary to what the Tafsir explanation of the passage.

Another example is the recitation of the daughter of Allah, which Allah changed on the basis that this recitation was wrong and was from Satan. Thus by accepting the change in your faith I question what else was inspired by Satan.

Regards Doug


Hello again, Doug.

You remind me of my days in school; of the time I had to complete a practical test for my engineering master. Again and again I presented what I thought was an acceptable piece, only to have him throw it away, with the words: ‘Try again’. On the eighth (or thereabouts) and final attempt he looked at my piece, turned it over a few time, and then said: ‘What I admire about you, Paul, is you perseverance.’ Then he threw the piece away!

‘So if you (Prophet) are in doubt about what We have revealed to you, ask those who have been reading the scriptures before you. The Truth has come to you from your Lord, so be in no doubt and do not deny Allāh’s signs - then you would become one of the losers.’ (Yunus: 94).

I wrote that the Prophet is being reassured by Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla). He is not being reassured because of actual doubt; he is being reassured against potential doubt, arising out of his current circumstances. I ought to have made that clear.

Sayyid Qutb writes:

‘But the Prophet (peace be upon him) was not in doubt concerning his revelations. It is reported that when this verse was revealed, the Prophet said, “I do not doubt, and I am not going to ask.” Why is it, then, that he is told to ask if he is in doubt? And why is this followed by the statement that “it is surely the truth that has come to you from your Lord?” It is certainly more than enough for him to know that this statement is made by God.’


Qutb goes on to remind us that shortly before these verses were revealed the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) lost his wife, Khadījah, and his uncle, Abū Ţālib, both of whom had provided him with much-needed support. He writes: ‘They died within a short period of each other. Moreover, the unbelievers in Makkah increased their physical persecution of the Prophet and those who believed in his message. The new faith was practically confined to Makkah, as the Quraysh, the predominant tribe in Arabia, fought hard to stop it from spreading to other tribes. All these circumstances weighed heavily on the Prophet’s heart. Hence, he needed the reassurance that God gives him with this assertion, making it clear that his message is the message of truth.’ (‘In the Shade of the Quran’; Volume 9; pages 116-117).

As for the so-called ‘daughters’ of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla); I assume you are referring to this:

‘(Disbelievers), consider al-Lāt and al-ʿUzzā, and the third one, Manāt - are you to have the male and He the female? That would be a most unjust distribution! These are nothing but names you have invented yourselves, you and your forefathers. Allāh has sent no authority for them. These people merely follow guess-work and the whims of their souls, even though guidance has come to them from their Lord.’ (Al-Najm: 19-23).

Seyyed Hossein Nasr writes:

‘Al-Lāt, al-ʿUzzā and Manāt are the names of some of the idols worshipped by the pre-Islamic Arabs. Al-Lāt is said to have been a white stone with inscriptions in the city of Ṭāʾif, the sister city of Makkah, that was worshipped by the tribe of Thaqīf. Al-ʿUzzā (meaning “the Most Mighty” and referring to Venus or the morning star), worshipped by the tribe of Ghaṭafān, had a shrine consisting of three trees on which the idolaters placed a monument and curtains in the area of Nakhlah, between Makkah and Ṭāʾif; she is said to have been the most venerated idol among the Quraysh. Manāt, worshipped by the tribes of ‘Khuzā‘ah, Aws and Khazraj, was said to be the goddess of destiny….The three idols toghther formed a triad…..In several early histories of Islam, it is reported that when the Prophet came to the end of vv. 19–20 Satan whispered to him another two verses falsely according these pagan deities an exalted status: “Verily, they are high flying cranes! And their intercession is indeed anticipated/hoped for.” These verses appeared to accept the idols of the pagan Arabs as legitimate deities and greatly pleased the Quraysh, who according to some accounts then prostrated with the Prophet and his followers when the Prophet reached v. 62: :So prostrate unto God and worship”…..The Prophet later realized that he had been deceived when he received the revelation of 22:52: ………………(He) then recanted the satanic interpolation.’ (‘The Study Quran: A New Translation and Commentary’).

Rather too much time and effort have been wasted over the so called ‘satanic verses’. All that is required to demonstrate that the story is false is to insert them into the sura in their (alleged) location:

‘(Disbelievers), consider al-Lāt and al-ʿUzzā, and the third one, Manāt; verily, they are high flying cranes! And their intercession is indeed anticipated/hoped for.’ So far, so good…..cause for pagan celebrated, no doubt.

Adding the verses that followed, just a few breaths, later we have:

‘(Disbelievers), consider al-Lāt and al-ʿUzzā, and the third one, Manāt; verily, they are high flying cranes! And their intercession is indeed anticipated/hoped for……These are nothing but names you have invented yourselves, you and your forefathers. Allāh has sent no authority for them.

What!! First we have praise for these idols, and then immediate condemnation. These ‘high flying cranes’ are mere inventions, with no mandate at all from Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla).

Anyone insisting that these verses make sense has either a very low understanding of written English; or else is being wilfully perverse.

Have a great week.

Paul
 
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Niblo

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Masha'Allah Paul, using Qur'an and Hadith to explain your points. I need to take a leaf out of your book and commend you for your patience.

As-Salāmu ‘Alaykum, brother.

Many thanks for you kind words. Using the Qur’an and ahadith (and other sources) is always a good idea when debating. Forgetting to do can sometimes be embarrassing (see the third paragraph of my post to Doug (above)!

May Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) bless you and your family.

Paul
 
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DWA2DAY

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hi Limo Thank you for your reply.

You're just copying and pasting without having a quick look to Quran. you've wrongly copied and pasted the verses references as follows:
  • Surah 7:54 not 7:45
  • Surah 38:71-73 not 38:9-12
  • Surah 18:50 not 18:20
Yes you are correct in coping from my reference I did miss quote the passages in question. My apologies for the inconvenience and or offence this has caused.

Re creation :-
eight days is coming from a false interpretation

I think you need to check you maths here.
Surah 41:9-12 is 2+4+2 =8 days
Surah 7:54 7 32:4 says six days.

No interpretation is required in these verses only basic maths, not mention the fact you even highlighted the reference in red.

There is nothing says in either verses or in any verse in Quran says that Satan is an angel.
This verse was explained to me in a previous post and accept the explination

  • Surah 6:145
    • ....was revealed to me....
  • Surah 2:97
    • Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - it is [none but] he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart
...........................Where is the contradiction ?
Read what you have highlighted in red. It is very clear.

First : Christians is a wrong translation of Nasara نصارى . There is nothing in Quran about people who call themselves Christians.

If this is true you contradict yourself in the very next sentence.

Allah told us about Nasara نصارى who are the true followers of El-messiah the human prophet who weren't crucified, died, resurrected, Son of God, God the Son, Trinity,,,,

Or do I understand in your opinion modern Christianity are not true followers of Jesus Christ as expressed in there belief in the Gospels (Bible).

The fact is again by simply reading Surah 2:62 & 3:85 are contradictory your explanation makes no sense.

Putting this aside the fact is the Quran states clearly 4:82, 18:1, 6:38, 12:111, 16:38 and 39:23 that it is free from error, consistent within itself, explains all things, nothing is omitted or needs to be added, there is nothing crooked or devious and there are no dependencies.

you have failed to explain four of the many contradictions in the Quran and thus based on this one has no other option to say it is not the divine book as Islam says it is.

Regards Doug
 
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DWA2DAY

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Hello again, Doug.

You remind me of my days in school; of the time I had to complete a practical test for my engineering master. Again and again I presented what I thought was an acceptable piece, only to have him throw it away, with the words: ‘Try again’. On the eighth (or thereabouts) and final attempt he looked at my piece, turned it over a few time, and then said: ‘What I admire about you, Paul, is you perseverance.’ Then he threw the piece away!

Well Paul, I am not going to rehash my argument with you I will leave it with you to read another seven times.

Regards Doug
 
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Hello again, Doug.

You remind me of my days in school; of the time I had to complete a practical test for my engineering master. Again and again I presented what I thought was an acceptable piece, only to have him throw it away, with the words: ‘Try again’. On the eighth (or thereabouts) and final attempt he looked at my piece, turned it over a few time, and then said: ‘What I admire about you, Paul, is you perseverance.’ Then he threw the piece away!

Usually this is all that happens with people whose hearts are sealed. Arabic speaking Christian Scholars would never entertain debating with Muslim Scholars on perceived contradictions within the Qur'an, as they simply understand the nuances of the language used, and would look silly trying to win a debate. I can only think of one man who tried this, Dr Anis Shorrosh against Ahmad Deedat and he failed.

I'm sure as a revert, you will remember the days when the Bible was said to be the unaltered word of GOD. These days most Scholars, even Evangelical Christian ones don't make that claim, or even that the writers were 'inspired'.

On the issue of 6 or 8 days it's best to just cut and paste from people who refute these kinds of matters all the time:

* Six or eight days of creation? Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly state that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But in 41:9-12 the detailed description of the creation procedure adds up to eight days.

They were six. The verses of 41:9-12 speak of overlapping actions in spans of four and two days each. The adverbs are the keys to understanding this. The verses of 11 and 12 use the adverbs "thummah" and "fa" which imply consecutiveness of action. Neither of these two, however, are used in verse 10 (the only one which mentions four days) which instead uses the adverb "wa" implying parallel, or "overlapping" actions. In other words, the grammar tells us that the four days mentioned in 10 are a continuation of the two mentioned in verse 9. The four days of "measuring the earth's sustenance" refers to the two days of the creation of the earth in addition to the two days of the "spreading out of the earth's features" (see next question).

For example, the world renown track and fielder Carl Lewis might say "I am now 32 years old. I started elementary school when I was 6, then I spent 12 years studying for my high-school diploma and I spent 24 years training to be the world's best long-jumper. Then I settled down and have spent the last two years taking care of my family." Does this mean that he was 18 years old when he started training for the long jump? Did he continue till he was 42 years old? If we add 6 + 12 + 24 + 2 we get 44. How then can he be "32 years old" now?. To understand this we need to notice that he did not say that he started training when he was eighteen. He did not say "then" I trained for 24 years. We now realize that he started training at the same time he started elementary school, when he was 6. He went to school and trained for track and field at the same time. After he graduated from high-school he continued to train for 12 more years. They were "overlapping" actions.

Now, if someone wishes to claim that Carl Lewis' statement is contradictory since he says that he is 32 years old but "the detailed description of the breakdown of the years" works out to 44 years, and that this is a "contradiction," then that is their choice.

Six or eight days of creation?

If one wants to be critical, then really they should learn the Arabic to avoid the problems of imposing a modern language on 7th Century texts.
 
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DWA2DAY

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If one wants to be critical, then really they should learn the Arabic to avoid the problems of imposing a modern language on 7th Century texts.

The fact remain it is still a contradiction, to what is claimed to be a perfect book. You can not explain it away.
By implication of your argument the 4 day is clearly stated as 4 days not 2, thus the Quran is not clear as we are lead to believe.

One could easly accept your explanation, as human transmission error or a in the manner what you describe. However this is not consistent with Islamic belief of the unchanging and perfect record in the Quran.

Thus is a problem, simply put the Quran does not measure up to the standards it claims.
 
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Limo

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hi Limo Thank you for your reply.
Yes you are correct in coping from my reference I did miss quote the passages in question. My apologies for the inconvenience and or offence this has caused.
Hi Doug,
No problem, I used to such things
Re creation :-
I think you need to check you maths here.
Surah 41:9-12 is 2+4+2 =8 days
Surah 7:54 7 32:4 says six days.

No interpretation is required in these verses only basic maths, not mention the fact you even highlighted the reference in red.
No surprise, as expected, denial mood
a)creating earth is in 2 days
b)creating heaven is in 2 days
c) creating earth (includes mountains) + (blessing +.... ) = 2+2 = a+2
Total = b + c = b + (a+2) = a+b+2=2+2+2=6
How about (Father+Son+Holy Spirit = 1)
Which one applies basic maths, physics, philosophy, logic ?

This verse was explained to me in a previous post and accept the explination
Good
Read what you have highlighted in red. It is very clear.
Again denial mood
First verse is in passive speech (Gabriel name is not mentioned) -- .was revealed
Second verse in active speech (Gabriel name is mentioned) -- Gabriel - it is he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart

If this is true you contradict yourself in the very next sentence.
speech
Absolutely no, see my next comment
Or do I understand in your opinion modern Christianity are not true followers of Jesus Christ as expressed in there belief in the Gospels (Bible).

The fact is again by simply reading Surah 2:62 & 3:85 are contradictory your explanation makes no sense.
You're a true follower of the mythic fabricated character "Jesus-Christ" in Alexandria,Nicaea, and Constantinople . Same as your ancestors.

You're not the true follower of Israels human-being prophet El-Messiah Isa ibn(son of) Mariam whom are called in Quran (Nasara نصارى).

Allah used in Quran and Prophet used in all Hadeeths the Arabic word نصارى Nasra, There is no single word in any old Islamic reference uses the word Christians مسيحيين. Unfortunately, Quran translators did a severe mistake by using the word Christians.

I'll tell you something more.
Allah in Quran refers to El-Messiah's book (which is like Mosa's book torah, Mohamed's book Quran) as إنجيل Engeel, there is nothing about Gospel(s) or Bible.
Again, not only translators but some modern scholars uses the word Gospel or Bible in instead of the word إنجيل Engeel
We know El-Messiah's Engeel but nothing in Islam about Luke, Mark,,,, Gospel
Putting this aside the fact is the Quran states clearly 4:82, 18:1, 6:38, 12:111, 16:38 and 39:23 that it is free from error, consistent within itself, explains all things, nothing is omitted or needs to be added, there is nothing crooked or devious and there are no dependencies.

you have failed to explain four of the many contradictions in the Quran and thus based on this one has no other option to say it is not the divine book as Islam says it is.

Regards Doug
It's not about explanation Doug, It's about perception. One seeks truth shouldn't be biased.
I've told you since beginning, that you'll not accept but I should explain to you any way.

ِAllah said in Quran " And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best"

Regards
 
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DWA2DAY

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Hi Doug,
No problem, I used to such things

No surprise, as expected, denial mood
a)creating earth is in 2 days
b)creating heaven is in 2 days
c) creating earth (includes mountains) + (blessing +.... ) = 2+2 = a+2
Total = b + c = b + (a+2) = a+b+2=2+2+2=6
How about (Father+Son+Holy Spirit = 1)
Which one applies basic maths, physics, philosophy, logic ?


Good

Again denial mood
First verse is in passive speech (Gabriel name is not mentioned) -- .was revealed
Second verse in active speech (Gabriel name is mentioned) -- Gabriel - it is he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart


Absolutely no, see my next comment

You're a true follower of the mythic fabricated character "Jesus-Christ" in Alexandria,Nicaea, and Constantinople . Same as your ancestors.

You're not the true follower of Israels human-being prophet El-Messiah Isa ibn(son of) Mariam whom are called in Quran (Nasara نصارى).

Allah used in Quran and Prophet used in all Hadeeths the Arabic word نصارى Nasra, There is no single word in any old Islamic reference uses the word Christians مسيحيين. Unfortunately, Quran translators did a severe mistake by using the word Christians.

I'll tell you something more.
Allah in Quran refers to El-Messiah's book (which is like Mosa's book torah, Mohamed's book Quran) as إنجيل Engeel, there is nothing about Gospel(s) or Bible.
Again, not only translators but some modern scholars uses the word Gospel or Bible in instead of the word إنجيل Engeel
We know El-Messiah's Engeel but nothing in Islam about Luke, Mark,,,, Gospel

It's not about explanation Doug, It's about perception. One seeks truth shouldn't be biased.
I've told you since beginning, that you'll not accept but I should explain to you any way.

ِAllah said in Quran " And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best"

Regards

Hi Limo

No surprise, as expected, denial mood
a)creating earth is in 2 days
b)creating heaven is in 2 days
c) creating earth (includes mountains) + (blessing +.... ) = 2+2 = a+2
Total = b + c = b + (a+2) = a+b+2=2+2+2=6
How about (Father+Son+Holy Spirit = 1)
Which one applies basic maths, physics, philosophy, logic ?

But that is not what is written in the Quran, you changing its clear meaning to suit your argument. your a hypocrite.

You're a true follower of the mythic fabricated character "Jesus-Christ" in Alexandria,Nicaea, and Constantinople . Same as your ancestors.

So now instead of dealing with the topic you wanted to defend you now change the topic.

I get the feeling you think I am attacking your faith or wanting to change your belief base. If so you have it wrong. I simply seek understanding as to how Muslims say the Quran is clear and with out fault. When I point to a simple ans clear passage you manipulate it to suit your argument.

Its like two children going at it - yes you did, no I did not. yes you did, no I did not. yes you did, no I did not.

It's not about explanation Doug, It's about perception. One seeks truth shouldn't be biased.
I've told you since beginning, that you'll not accept but I should explain to you any way.

you not serious! really. Bias is not the issue, read what is written in your Quran it is clear. All I have done is responded to your explanation using your holy book, I am bias because you can not explain it.

As I have allready said
One could easily accept your explanation, as human transmission error or a in the manner what you describe. However this is not consistent with Islamic belief of the unchanging and perfect record in the Quran.

Thus my problem is simply, the Quran does not measure up to the standards Muslims claims it meets.



Regards Doug
 
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Limo

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Hi Limo
But that is not what is written in the Quran, you changing its clear meaning to suit your argument. your a hypocrite.
Hi Doug,
This is not a new claim. My explanation is not new. Quran is not like bible. We study Quran to the level of character. Any Muslim memorizes some of Quran for prayer. Many memorizes it all.
Such claims are even highlighted by Muslims as well
So now instead of dealing with the topic you wanted to defend you now change the topic.

I get the feeling you think I am attacking your faith or wanting to change your belief base. If so you have it wrong. I simply seek understanding as to how Muslims say the Quran is clear and with out fault. When I point to a simple ans clear passage you manipulate it to suit your argument.

Its like two children going at it - yes you did, no I did not. yes you did, no I did not. yes you did, no I did not.
Absolutely no. I'm not sensitive to non-Muslims claims. I don't consider it "attack". I enjoy responding to it :)

I was explaining my view of the word Christian as you said in the previous comment that I contradict myself.

you not serious! really. Bias is not the issue, read what is written in your Quran it is clear. All I have done is responded to your explanation using your holy book, I am bias because you can not explain it.
I'm not expecting agreement at all. I'm expecting some understanding like "may be" or "it can be" at the end "I'm not convinced"
At the end, no problem. You're not Muslim and no need to accept our views.
As I have already said
One could easily accept your explanation, as human transmission error or a in the manner what you describe. However this is not consistent with Islamic belief of the unchanging and perfect record in the Quran.

Thus my problem is simply, the Quran does not measure up to the standards Muslims claims it meets.
Regards Doug
Disagree, there is no transmission problem in Quran at all. It's not like Bible.
Hundresds to thousands to tens of thousands transmitters from generation to another.
Any Muslim MUST memorize some of Quran to use for prayer.
We worship by just reading it. Good Muslim reads it all every month.
There is no discrepancy recorded in even a letter between the oldest scriptures and the latest one.
There is no discrepancy recorded between all Muslims all over the world.

Allah challenged anyone to find "much contradiction"
Quran 4:82 : "Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions."

Regards
 
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DWA2DAY

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Any Muslim memorizes some of Quran for prayer. Many memorizes it all.
Such claims are even highlighted by Muslims as well

This I understand and have no problem with but does not address the issue of contradiction with in the Quran as discussed.

There is no discrepancy recorded between all Muslims all over the world.

The issue here is not what Muslims agree to. It is your text that do not agree with its self. The fact that millions of Muslim turn a blind eye to this does not address the issue.

Disagree, there is no transmission problem in Quran at all. It's not like Bible.

again it is not about the transmission of the Quran, Muslims agree there is no error and it a pure book without contradictions. Yet when one reads it this is clearly not the case, walking in blind agreement with each other dose not change the problems that arise in your text.

you see I doubt an all knowing Allah who created the universe would say the sun sets in a pool of mud. Yet the Quran does say this and thus lends itself to human error. Yet this can not be the case as it is against what the Quran teaches i.e. "it is without error"

Do you see the problem from a non Muslim perspective. Thus the problem for Islam for to accept there been error is to nullify the source of its revelation as a false god.

Regards Doug
 
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you see I doubt an all knowing Allah who created the universe would say the sun sets in a pool of mud. Yet the Quran does say this and thus lends itself to human error. Yet this can not be the case as it is against what the Quran teaches i.e. "it is without error"

Do you see the problem from a non Muslim perspective. Thus the problem for Islam for to accept there been error is to nullify the source of its revelation as a false god.

Regards Doug

What we see is people failing to read the verses within their given context:
Qur'an 18:83-86
And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about Dhul-Qarnayn. Say, "I will recite to you about him a report."

Indeed We established him upon the earth, and We gave him to everything a way.
So he followed a way

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."

Brackets for your benefit, as Abrabic speakers would understand what was being said from the grammar used. He Dhul-Qarnayn perceived the Sun setting in a muddy pool, just as people perceive the Sun setting in the distance amongst Mountains, Trees, the Horizon etc
 
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DWA2DAY

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What we see is people failing to read the verses within their given context:

Yes I agree but what context is required to understand the setting sun?

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."

Brackets for your benefit, as Abrabic speakers would understand what was being said from the grammar used.

Great one can accept that only problem is the AS IF is not in 11 of the 14 online Quran's. In fact the errors are worse some say muddy pool, some dark sea others a spring.

Again my point is not the error or confusion, the Quran is supposedly free from error falsehood, changes and so on. Yet on inspection it fails dismally.

Therefore the Quran is not the reliable document it claims to be.

Quran with Translations - Text Audio Search
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a murky spring, and found a people in its vicinity. We said, "O Zul-Qarnain, you may either inflict a penalty, or else treat them kindly."
ITANI - God

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Pickthall

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah. And he found near it a people. We said: "O Dhul-Qarnayn! Either you punish them or treat them with kindness."
Mubarakpuri

until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and nearby he found a nation. 'ThulKarnain' We said, 'you must either punish them or show them kindness'
Qaribullah & Darwish

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Hilali & Khan

Until when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he perceived it setting in a miry spring, and he found beside it a nation. We said: Zul Qarnian! either chastise them or take in respect of them the way of kindness.
Daryabadi
until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of murky water and near it he found some people. We said, "Dhu'l-Qarnayn! You can either punish them or else you can treat them with gentleness."
Wahiduddin Khan

until when he reached the very limits where the sun sets, he saw it setting in dark turbid waters; and nearby he met a people. We said: "O Dhu al-Qarnayn, you have the power to punish or to treat them with kindness."
Maududi

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
Yusuf Ali

When he reached the place where the sun sets, he found it setting over a warm sea, and by it he found a people. We said, ‘O Dhul Qarnayn! You will either punish them, or treat them with kindness.’
Qarai

to the West where he found the sun setting into a warm source (spring) of water and a people living near by. We asked him, "Dhu 'l-Qarnayn, you may punish them or treat them with kindness?"
Sarwar

Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a murky spring, and found a people in its vicinity. We said, "O Zul-Qarnain, you may either inflict a penalty, or else treat them kindly."
ITANI - God

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Pickthall

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah. And he found near it a people. We said: "O Dhul-Qarnayn! Either you punish them or treat them with kindness."
Mubarakpuri

until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and nearby he found a nation. 'ThulKarnain' We said, 'you must either punish them or show them kindness'
Qaribullah & Darwish

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Hilali & Khan

until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of murky water and near it he found some people. We said, "Dhu'l-Qarnayn! You can either punish them or else you can treat them with gentleness."
Wahiduddin Khan

until when he reached the very limits where the sun sets, he saw it setting in dark turbid waters; and nearby he met a people. We said: "O Dhu al-Qarnayn, you have the power to punish or to treat them with kindness."
Maududi

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
Yusuf Ali

When he reached the place where the sun sets, he found it setting over a warm sea, and by it he found a people. We said, ‘O Dhul Qarnayn! You will either punish them, or treat them with kindness.’
Qarai

to the West where he found the sun setting into a warm source (spring) of water and a people living near by. We asked him, "Dhu 'l-Qarnayn, you may punish them or treat them with kindness?"
Sarwar
[18:86]

Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.
Shakir

Until when he reached the
setting-place of the sun, he perceived it setting in a miry spring, and he found beside it a nation. We said: Zul Qarnian! either chastise them or take in respect of them the way of kindness.
Daryabadi
[18:86]

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."
Saheeh International
[18:86]
them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."
Saheeh International
[18:86]
 
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Yes I agree but what context is required to understand the setting sun?

The context is Dhul-Qarnayn's perception. If you understood the Arabic, you would see no problem with the verse, as it's clear. For this reason you will never find a Arabic speaking Christian even attempt to bring such a verse up in front of a lay person who speaks Arabic, let alone bring it to a formal debate.

Again my point is not the error or confusion, the Quran is supposedly free from error falsehood, changes and so on. Yet on inspection it fails dismally.

Therefore the Quran is not the reliable document it claims to be.

1.5 Billion Muslims including myself would agree if the Qur'an said, and this book will make perfect sense when translated 1400 years from now into a modern language! The beauty of the Qur'an is, the Arabic employed is still used to this day and Millions spend a year or so to learn it. Those that don't and are perplexed by such verses can ask any Arabic Muslim to explain it.
 
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DWA2DAY

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The context is Dhul-Qarnayn's perception. If you understood the Arabic, you would see no problem with the verse,

Yes. I have already show you that in 78% of the cases the Arabic word is not in the Quran or the translators simply ignored it.
When it suddenly appear it the New Standard translation of the Quran one question has this been added by the translator.
Yet this is not the issue, the different versions of the Quran are not consistent with each other and is there against Islamic tradition.

1.5 Billion Muslims including myself would agree if the Qur'an said, and this book will make perfect sense when translated 1400 years from now into a modern language! The beauty of the Qur'an is, the Arabic employed is still used to this day and Millions spend a year or so to learn it.

This may be the case. As proven already the Quran still does not meat the standards it claim to adhere to.
 
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