Confession Before Baptism

[everbecoming2007]

A friend of mine told me converts to Orthodoxy, even when received by baptism, still make a confession of sins, although without absolution, the baptism serving that purpose when it is performed. I've heard and read of similar practices in the early church. Is this how the Orthodox do things for adult converts who are baptized?

 

[Ioustinos]

This was my experience when I entered into the Orthodox Church a few years ago (received by baptism). However my wife (received by chrismation) confessed after her Chrismation. So I guess it depends on the parish or diocese.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Yes, we make a "lifetime" confession before being received into the Church. I was received by Chrismation only and made my confession the day before. It's the same for those received by baptism. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that seems to be the general way it's done.

Mary

 

[everbecoming2007]

Yes, we make a "lifetime" confession before being received into the Church. I was received by Chrismation only and made my confession the day before. It's the same for those received by baptism. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that seems to be the general way it's done.

Mary

That's very interesting. An Anglican priest did a confession for me prior to baptism although that isn't officially condoned. I had never heard until recently that the Orthodox do this.

 

[E.C.]

I was received by chrismation, but had confession right before it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'd always heard of a life confession before baptism, but my priest said baptism was for the remission of sins and it wasn't necessary. I don't get the impression that it would be offered even I wanted it. When I came to talk to him about something, he asked me to tell him before I started if it pertained to something before baptism (which he said I was free to discuss but warned it could kind of stir up old sins and create defficulties).

My parish is Greek.

I'm sure this is an "ask your priest" question.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I had confession right before my reception into the Church, and I am pretty sure there was no absolution because the baptism/chrismation covers it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I had confession right before my reception into the Church, and I am pretty sure there was no absolution because the baptism/chrismation covers it.

Matt, if I may? And I hope not to be too off topic.

But your mention that chrismation "covering" it reminds me that Orthodox normally don't "re baptize" (at least not in my jurisdiction) but we do say that Chrismation "completes" anything lacking possibly in a heterodox baptism.

And I am reminded that we speak of "one baptism for the remission of sins".

I had concerns before I was baptized - because I have been before. But I was unable to give Father the statement he wanted with all of the information because I didn't remember, don't have it, couldn't find anyone to contact. The church is different, the pastor and my mother have died.

(I also had a pseudo-baptism, as I don't know ... This church just did it repeatedly as a rededication?)

So I felt out of order. Before I was baptized, I worried that that might not be my "one baptism for the remission of sins" and similar worries.

Now let me say, i am no longer worried. For one thing, I understand that the decision is the Church's responsibility. And I experienced enough of a difference after entering into the sacraments that I know SOMEthing has happened and is effective (I was baptized, chrismated, and received the Eucharist all at once).

But I guess what I want to ask is ... Is the "completing" or "perfecting" that would have happened with Chrismation only - would that have been also for the remission of sins and to accomplish all that baptism normally does?

If anyone knows?

I'm not quite sure if I'm asking the right question, but I'm wondering how the Church explains specifically about the efficacy of the sacraments (specifically baptism and chrismation) in light of previous baptism, etc?

I hope that question made sense!

 

[ArmyMatt]

But I guess what I want to ask is ... Is the "completing" or "perfecting" that would have happened with Chrismation only - would that have been also for the remission of sins and to accomplish all that baptism normally does?

I think yes if there was anything lacking which God only knows. however you can canonically receive the mysteries is what should be the focus. Fr Seraphim Rose (who very well could be glorified a saint) was received by St John Maximovitch (who was called one of the saints of old) via chrismation. even though Fr Seraphim wished he were received via baptism, look at how holy he became.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think yes if there was anything lacking which God only knows. however you can canonically receive the mysteries is what should be the focus. Fr Seraphim Rose (who very well could be glorified a saint) was received by St John Maximovitch (who was called one of the saints of old) via chrismation. even though Fr Seraphim wished he were received via baptism, look at how holy he became.

Well, on the one hand I'm very interested in what the Church teaches and believes, but of course I don't think God is sitting there saying, "Sorry, in fact they were wrong, you needed to be baptized (or chrismated only) - not the other, so I can't forgive you" ... Thankfully I don't think He is like that at all! (I'm so glad God isn't bound by the "rules" I was taught by some denominations!).

I guess if I ignore that ... It seems a legitimate question to wonder ... "IF there was anything lacking ..."

If forgiveness WAS lacking, then it is granted when being received into the Church, and confession/absolution are unnecessary.

If they were NOT lacking and you already received them, then you cannot receive them again?

You know, for a minute I thought I was overthinking this. But maybe my mistake is in the focus.

ONE baptism for the remission of sins ...

But it doesn't say baptism for the remission of sins ONCE.

One means one baptism, not one remission.

God can freely forgive, of course, and as a good and loving God, He wants to.

So should I be thinking that even if the baptism theoretically did NOT lack bringing one into the Body and accomplishing remission of sins,

Then a later baptism (or chrismation) while it would not be fulfilling that particular lack (since no lack exists) ... Could still offer forgiveness yet again?

I know a few of the Fathers wrestled with the idea of sins not being forgiven after baptism at all, so I'm guessing there has been writing about exactly how that is applied. Or maybe not.

What do you think? If one received remission of sins prior, would one simply be forgiven again? I don't think God is so legally bound that He would withhold forgiveness? (I'm thinking too of the fact that the Church may not offer confession/absolution of sins before baptism.)

I hope I'm still making sense. I'm thinking as I'm writing this. Thanks for your patience.

 

[everbecoming2007]

Well, on the one hand I'm very interested in what the Church teaches and believes, but of course I don't think God is sitting there saying, "Sorry, in fact they were wrong, you needed to be baptized (or chrismated only) - not the other, so I can't forgive you" ... Thankfully I don't think He is like that at all! (I'm so glad God isn't bound by the "rules" I was taught by some denominations!).

I guess if I ignore that ... It seems a legitimate question to wonder ... "IF there was anything lacking ..."

If forgiveness WAS lacking, then it is granted when being received into the Church, and confession/absolution are unnecessary.

If they were NOT lacking and you already received them, then you cannot receive them again?

You know, for a minute I thought I was overthinking this. But maybe my mistake is in the focus.

ONE baptism for the remission of sins ...

But it doesn't say baptism for the remission of sins ONCE.

One means one baptism, not one remission.

God can freely forgive, of course, and as a good and loving God, He wants to.

So should I be thinking that even if the baptism theoretically did NOT lack bringing one into the Body and accomplishing remission of sins,

Then a later baptism (or chrismation) while it would not be fulfilling that particular lack (since no lack exists) ... Could still offer forgiveness yet again?

I know a few of the Fathers wrestled with the idea of sins not being forgiven after baptism at all, so I'm guessing there has been writing about exactly how that is applied. Or maybe not.

What do you think? If one received remission of sins prior, would one simply be forgiven again? I don't think God is so legally bound that He would withhold forgiveness? (I'm thinking too of the fact that the Church may not offer confession/absolution of sins before baptism.)

I hope I'm still making sense. I'm thinking as I'm writing this. Thanks for your patience.

I had the same question of a very knowledgeable Orthodox catechuman (coming from an Anglican background). Her answer was that generally speaking there is a confession before the baptism, although there is no absolution in that case. But if the Orthodox don't answer definitively that a prior baptism was lacking grace, what happens to unconfessed (or unabsolved) sins in the case that a person is received through baptism but the prior baptism was indeed not lacking in grace? I assume being united to the Church would cover the sins in that case and that the second baptism would be a completion of form or anything that may have been lacking, similar to when one is received by chrismation.

It is an interesting dilemma. I hope someone can speak to this here.

 

[ArmyMatt]

One means one baptism, not one remission.

right, everything we do is for the remission of sins. EVERYTHING that is given from the holy water of Theophany to the Eucharist to sex within marriage is for our salvation. God does always pour out His forgiveness on everyone, and the life of the Church is there to tap us into that life, which saves us.

 

[~Anastasia~]

right, everything we do is for the remission of sins. EVERYTHING that is given from the holy water of Theophany to the Eucharist to sex within marriage is for our salvation. God does always pour out His forgiveness on everyone, and the life of the Church is there to tap us into that life, which saves us.

I think I'm slowly getting that.

Thank you so much!