Casting out demons....

[Mister_Al]

Mister-Al - If you are walking around bondage free, with no besetting sins at all, and are keeping on the full armour of the Almighty 100% of the times, how wonderful for you. How unusual, too. Sadly, I've never seen anyone who came anywhere near to being sin free/bondage free.

I'm very sorry that the particular deliverance ministry you worked with, and your own attempts at self deliverance, were not successful. Naturally such experiences would make you feel skeptical. This does not negate the fact that deliverance has set countless others free, nor does it negate the fact that we are told to "cast our demons."

You have your story. Others have theirs. They conflict. This is not uncommon. That's why we all need to be really sure who we are hearing from is the Holy Spirit, with praise and prayer and fasting. There is more than one voice out there, as Messiah said, and there are wolves as well as sheep in the Churches. We all have had the experience of being deceived and confused. More than once!

Oh, but if you ever do decide to fulfill the Great Commission and cast out demons, I'd really like to hear all about it if you don't mind. Since you are sure deliverance is only for nonbelievers I wonder where you might go to follow Messiah's directive? Maybe you could go into crack house and start casting out demons? That should be interesting. Or how about showing up where some Hell's Angels are gathering? Maybe you could start commanding demons to leave from them? I wonder how happy they would be with you. Whatever. It would be so interesting to hear all about it. Do report back when you have seen progress casting out demons from those who have no faith in Messiah, if you don't mind.

I get attacked by the enemy just like everybody else does. My advantage is that I don't have to go to a deliverance minister for help. I just say it is written and resist the devil and, eventually it stops.

One thing I do know for sure is that your opinion of what I know and have done in my life is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Maybe you have a demon that's blinding you to the truth of God's word, but you probably just don't know any better. I will tell you one thing though--been there, done that, and then I learned it was wrong, so I quit.

Matthew 7:21-23 Amplified Bible (AMP)
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name and driven out demons in Your name and done many mighty works in Your name?

23 And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].

I'm done here.

Blessings,

Alan

.

 

[LoricaLady]

So, are you fulfilling the Grand Commission by casting out demons? You seem to feel you are quite knowledgeable in that area. Again, where have you gone, or where would you go, to cast out demons from unbelievers? Would you go to a crack house or to a gathering of Hell's Angels, maybe your local atheists' meetings?

You have your story about trying to cast out demons from yourself personally with no success. Again, I'm sorry about that. But your story is different from so many others. We all have to pray and seek the Holy Spirit in regard to what the Scriptures are saying. If you think they are saying only nonbelievers get demons cast out, that's your free choice. It's my free choice to totally disagree.

 

[Strachan]

For those that are of the view that Christians can't have demons (and I do NOT mean possessed), a question or two: how do you define those people in the Old Testament, such as Abraham, Isaaic and Jacob - would you say as believers we can call them Christian. Certainly I do, for I serve the same God as Abraham, Isaaic and Jacob. Please advise.

Then if we look to the New Testament, can we call the 12 disciples of Jesus Christian? After all, they were all chosen by Jesus. Please advise.

 

[Dave-W]

So, are you saying that what God provided through Jesus is not enough to deliver a person from the power of a demon?

Not at all. What God provided thru the Messiah is also enough to deliver a person from every disease and sickness. And yet people still get sick of dread diseases like cancer and die. People of strong faith. And there are any number of reasons why; most we probably will not know until we are on the other side.

 

[Goodbook]

I think we ought to lay hands on and pray for anyone thats sick and rebuke the illness, beofre we even go to a doctor.
We dont need to go to a deliverance minister every time, actually we can learn to do this ourselves, Jesus gives us the authority.

A good deliverance minister will teach the person how to do this so they dont need to keep going back. We can lay hands on ourselves and pray too. Did you know this? If you need to keep going back to someone they are teaching incorrectly. If the person who seems freed does not thank God and praise the Lord, maybe something is wrong and the demon is actually not out.

Dont play musical chairs with demons, make sure they are truly out. Ive learned that, if you send the, to Jesus or the appointed place, it is better than raling and telling them to go to hell, cos they know this and put up a fight. Also dont talk too long with them. While it is sometimes necesarry to find all the doorways this is not a interview session, you just want them gone.

 

[LoricaLady]

I'm all for laying hands on myself if that can lead to healing. I am leery of ministries that do that to tell you the truth as it is nearly impossible to get to know them well enough to see if they are the real deal in advance.

Why do you feel we can lay hands on our own selves and get the same effect? I'm not saying you are wrong and am hoping you are right, just want to know your Biblical rational.

 

[Mister_Al]

So, are you fulfilling the Grand Commission by casting out demons? You seem to feel you are quite knowledgeable in that area. Again, where have you gone, or where would you go, to cast out demons from unbelievers? Would you go to a crack house or to a gathering of Hell's Angels, maybe your local atheists' meetings?

You have your story about trying to cast out demons from yourself personally with no success. Again, I'm sorry about that. But your story is different from so many others. We all have to pray and seek the Holy Spirit in regard to what the Scriptures are saying. If you think they are saying only nonbelievers get demons cast out, that's your free choice. It's my free choice to totally disagree.

Jesus did not command us to look for demons to cast out, nor did He tell us to make a ministry out of of casting out demons and/or breaking curses. He commanded us to go forth into all the world and spread the gospel--that's it. If you encounter a demon while preaching then cast it out. But people that are depressed, or have a toothache, don't always have a demon or a curse as you might think. Casting out a demon and laying hands on the sick to heal someone are signs that follow them that believe and are baptized. Jesus also said "in my name" they would do these things. That doesn't mean all you have to do is say "in the name of Jesus" and everything you command will take place. If you're not spreading the word of the kingdom as Jesus was (continuing His ministry) then you aren't ministering in His name and I question your authority to accomplish much of anything. You'll notice that in the Bible (New Testament) the only people that worked miracles were those spreading the Gospel.

Also, my story isn't any different from the multitudes of people in the churches today that are truly born again and have realized that their salvation was enough to do what needed to be done. Furthermore, Abraham, and Jacob, and Isaac were NOT born again Christians. Jesus said that even the least in the Kingdom of God was greater than any people in the Old Testament.

You really need to try and understand the Bible without twisting the scriptures to justify what you believe because the Bible just doesn't support the deliverance ministry without taking it out of context.

Blessings,

Alan

 

[LoricaLady]

Mister_Al You said, "Jesus did not command us to look for demons to cast out, nor did He tell us to make a ministry out of of casting out demons and/or breaking curses."

Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

JOHN 14:12
12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

MATTHEW 10:1
1 And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.

You also said, "He commanded us to go forth into all the world and spread the gospel--that's it."

Matthew 10
7"And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' 8"Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons...

About one third of Messiah's ministry of miracles was devoted to deliverance from demons. Two times, above, we see that those who believe in Him are to do as He did. Again, nowhere in the above verse (or anywhere) does He ever say, "But healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers and casting out demons are miracles only meant for nonbelievers."

It seems wise that before we say Messiah said this or that to actually research the Man's words in the Bible. We are warned very sternly in Scriptures not to add to, or subtract from, them.

 

[znr]

I would seriously question this point. "Freely you have received, freely give". There is a new crop of healing evangelists arising that realize that their faith alone can be sufficient for healing, and that the goodness of God shown to the unbeliever can bring repentance. Todd White, most notably, and Art Thomas are two of many. I think Prince, bless him, was in the vanguard back then, but the Body has more light now on healing and deliverance and how they fit into the constellation of love, identity and evangelism.

Todd White? I say snake oil. Saw him in person whipping up the crowd like a showman. Maybe I'm missing something, but I doubt it.

 

[Goodbook]

Lorica lady..this is what Bill Subritsky taught people to do, obviously he cannot lay hands one every single person if its a big crowd. It would take too long.
He then rebukes illnesses.

with most ministers they are husband and wife team, so the man lays hands on the men and the lady lays hands on the women. I think that is best and good way to do it.

Also it is good to be wary of people you let lay hands on you. If you know them and trust them ok. I think in your spirit you may know this. You do this with doctors don't you? You let them touch you if you want to get well. well we don't need to touch people so intrusively as doctors do. Just hold their hand or something. Sometimes we place it on the part that's affected. Jesus even used his spit to open blind eyes and deaf ears..and we might think that's gross but he did it!

with demons Jesus cast them out with a word, some he did not even lay hands on, but hands can be healing touch and just comforting to a person so I would not say there is power in the touch itself its more of, Jesus was tactile and showing he cared.

 

[LoricaLady]

Well, I know next to nothing about Bill Subritzky. I don't remember, however, anything in Scriptures about one laying hands on oneself. My understanding, so far, is that laying on of hands is for the transmission of blessings, wisdom, and so on from one person to another.

In this vid Derek Prince discusses the topic of laying on of hands going verse by verse in the Bible.

Don't worry - I am ultra leery of anyone laying hands on me. I'd have to know that person intimately, see they were truly walking a sanctified life, and feel guided by the Holy Spirit to let them touch me.

 

[Mister_Al]

LoricaLady, I never said that Jesus didn't want us to cast out a demon if the need arose. I said that Christians don't have demons to be cast out. The deliverance ministry seems to believe that when a Christian has a problem it's caused by a demon and the only remedy is to cast that sucker out. But you just can't seem to understand that Jesus wasn't sent to cast out demons, He was sent to provide salvation and to preach the Kingdom of God which is what He also commissioned the Church to do. I understand and accept the Scriptures that you referenced but they are things Christians are to do as they are preaching the Kingdom of God, not to tidy things up after people get saved as if being born gain was just a part of a persons freedom.

Also, I noticed that you are leery of someone laying hands on you unless you know that person intimately. What's the matter, you afraid you'll get a demon from somebody? That's another false doctrine of the deliverance ministry. Do you think that a demon has enough power to force the Holy Spirit to get out of the way so he can come on you and start harassing you? If you do get a demon that way why don't you just cast that sucker out and go on about your business. The truth is that if someone with a demon lays hands on you and you have the Holy Spirit then the demon will probably leave and the Holy Spirit will come upon them. The transferring of spirits is true, but not the way the deliverance ministry teaches it. By the way, Jesus also made the blind see, the lame walk, and He raised the dead. I think that in Matthew 10:8 it says that Jesus told us to raise the dead and to cleanse lepers. How many lepers have you cleansed lately, or raised the dead? Wouldn't that be considered "deliverance" as well?

I guess that since that you are unable, or unwilling, to give scriptural support from the New Testament that demons need to be cast out of people that are saved that you concede that point. Regardless I'm not going to waste my time debating a point that doesn't need it.

Matthew 7:6,

Alan

 

[Strachan]

See Luke 13:16
10One Sabbath day as Jesus was teaching in a synagogue, 11he saw a woman who had been crippled by an evil spirit. She had been bent double for eighteen years and was unable to stand up straight. 12When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said, “Dear woman, you are healed of your sickness!” 13Then he touched her, and instantly she could stand straight. How she praised God!

14But the leader in charge of the synagogue was indignant that Jesus had healed her on the Sabbath day. “There are six days of the week for working,” he said to the crowd. “Come on those days to be healed, not on the Sabbath.”

15But the Lord replied, “You hypocrites! Each of you works on the Sabbath day! Don’t you untie your ox or your donkey from its stall on the Sabbath and lead it out for water? 16This dear woman, a daughter of Abraham, has been held in bondage by Satan for eighteen years. Isn’t it right that she be released, even on the Sabbath?”


This woman was a believer in the synagogue, "a daughter of Abraham". She was bound by Satan. Jesus set her free.


Also, the 12 disciples of Jesus. Judas fell to Satan. Satan entered him.

Luke 22:3-6New Living Translation (NLT)
3 Then Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve disciples, 4 and he went to the leading priests and captains of the Temple guard to discuss the best way to betray Jesus to them.5 They were delighted, and they promised to give him money. 6 So he agreed and began looking for an opportunity to betray Jesus so they could arrest him when the crowds weren’t around.


Actually, it doesn't matter what we debate, as I am sure Al will never believe anything written in response. You will need to come across it yourself, perhaps, before you will believe it. And I don't mean this in a negative way, or wish this on you. All I am saying is that only when you come across a Christian believer close to you, someone afflicted by a demon, but a strong Christian, only then will you see the reality of these scriptures.

I am also not going to debate this any further, you are welcome to your view.

 

[Dave-W]

The deliverance ministry seems to believe that when a Christian has a problem it's caused by a demon and the only remedy is to cast that sucker out.

That is caused by a lack of proper discernment. Either everything is a demon or nothing is a demon or they have some sort of formula to figure it out. Either way - THEY are in charge.

Using discernment means they have to listen CLOSELY to the Holy Spirit for each and every case. It takes control of the situation away from them. Some are VERY uncomfortable with that idea.

 

[LoricaLady]

Mister-Al - You've made your points and I've made mine. I don't think you have been representing what I said or what Messiah said correctly, but I'm not going to keep arguing with you. You can have the 2nd to the last word. The truth always gets the last word of course.

Bye and blessings!

 

[Goodbook]

You need to do some research and discernment.
I only telling you what happened in my experience.
If you dont know anyone thats afflicated or you dont battle with any demons yourself then dont get involved. Casting out demons is not for the fainthearted.

When demons go, they sort of shake your body up a bit but you know when they go..because of the change afterward. The person will have peace. If theres any remaining you need to take responisbility to make sure they well and truly gone not hiding.

Many demons enter cos person was involved in occult, and also trauma and thats how it was in my case. The main one was called terror.

Remember perfect love CASTING out fear? For fear has torment?

Exactly. I knew terror had to go cos it was ruining my life. And i couldnt get free until a christian recognised this and named who it was. And told it forcefully to leave. In Jesus name.

 

[ReformedJen]

So, are you saying that what God provided through Jesus is not enough to deliver a person from the power of a demon?

Before I was saved I was into the occult for a couple of years. When I got saved it seemed like every demon in hell came after me. Another Christian led me to a deliverance ministry for help. For weeks/months the ministers supposedly cast out demons and broke generational curses and nothing seemed to help. I believed in what they were doing, though, because, after all, they knew more than I did and everything they did was biblical according to their teachings.

I soon grew in the ways of deliverance and after a year or so I was made a minister myself. I shared their precepts as I tried to help others, but I noticed that the same people kept coming back every week to be delivered, and I was was still being tormented myself. Until one night the Lord spoke to me in the ministry and told me I wasn't supposed to be there. I left the next day and the Lord started explaining the Scriptures to me at home. I then noticed that the more I understood the more the torment subsided. I also learned that when I was attacked I could fight back by quoting scripture and soon end/prevent the attacks altogether.

God has personally delivered me from all of the things that the deliverance ministry couldn't just by teaching me the truth of His word. Haven't you ever studied the Full Armor of God? When you know the truth you can recognize the lies and resist the devil with the word until he flees. That's deliverance.

Blessings,

Alan

I read your post and dont see any way to contact you through private message. I was oppressed by demons last year and i still have issues sometimes with "air demons" even though I am born again. it has been a real struggle. i didnt go to a deliverance minister, i tried using authority in christs name but notice it does not work. i still feel as if im being held in some type of bondage of demons though. I have insomnia and have to take xanax every night, i have a bad migraine once a month and dont understand why God would allow that, and suffer from IBS a lot, and immodium barely covers it. I wonder if demons are doing this to me and dont know how to fix it. I pray constantly and ask God for help, and maybe he wants me to have faith, because the answers are not coming. Anything I can do?

 

[Mister_Al]

Deleted.

 

[tturt]

posted: "Anything I can do?"
"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." Jam 4:7 To apply this I've learned to:
-Repent to Yahweh (I John 2:16, Gal 5:16-21; Eph 4:31; Prov 6:16-19). Plus anything else He brings to mind. Then The Lord's Prayer on a regular basis (Matt 6 and Luke 11).
-Ask Yahweh to help me to forgive anyone that I need to (Matt 6:14-16) and continue to ask Him until I can think of those people/situations and not feel hurt, get angry, etc. Also, Matt 5:44.
-Cast my cares on Yahweh (Psa 55:22; I Peter 5:7; Matt 6:26-30)
-Take every thought captive (II Cor 10:5) and renew my mind with His Word (Rom 12:2). When thoughts come that are against His Word, I need to immediately begin to think about what Scripture says about it. Philippians 4:8
-Be aware of what I say because out of the abundance of my heart my mouth speaks (Luk 6:45).
-Ask Him for the fruit of His Spirit throughout the day (Gal 5:22-23) and praise and worship Yahweh (Psa 100:2; John 4:23).

 

[BFine]

I have been listening to Youtube vids by Derek Prince and Frank Hammond, who had deliverance ministries. They quote many Bible verses to show that Messiah was always casting out demons and that He told His followers to do the same. They say it is not that believers are being possessed by demons, only harassed by them. They quote instances in the Bible where believers were freed from such demons, for example the women who was bent over in the Temple, called a daughter of Abraham, who was described as being bound by Satan.

*Could be a case where God "permitted" this lady to be bound so this could happen: John 9:3; John 11:4.

They say that deliverance is for believers because nonbelievers can't hold onto it really.
*Did they present two or three verses of scripture
to support their statements?

I am very skeptical about deliverance ministries as there are so many fakes out there and some I've seen online seem, to me, at least, to not be for real. Hammond and Prince impress me as being sincere. If you know anything different, please share. And btw though Prince was in the questionable Shepherding movement, he came to feel they disagreed with Scriptures and got out of it.


I have only talked to one person who felt she was delivered of a demon or demons through a pastor.

If you have had any such experiences and want to share, even by PM, that would be fascinating.

Any input?

*Folks in the Bible didn't set up healing events,
nor was it required that the sick would have to
be present to get healed.

Jesus and his disciples traveled, they came in contact with different people; not to mention the ones who came seeking Him because they'd heard he
could do healing.

Mary Magdalene was possessed by
seven evil spirits(demons)...Luke 8:1-3.
She was delivered of those evil spirits and
became a follower of our Lord.

Not only were the sick healed, withered limbs
became new, a severed ear was put back on(no stitches either.)
Then there's the dead who were raised to life-example...Lazarus, he'd been put in a tomb(he was clearly dead) Jesus called out Lazarus's name and he came forth from the tomb!

From all I've read in the Bible, those who got healed
stayed healed... if I missed something please let me
know.

I find this particular healing "interesting"... it's
in John 5:1-17

For me...The "interesting" part of John, chapter 5:
"Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him,“See, you are well!
Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”
(A similar "warning" is stated in John 8:11.)

I do know some individuals who were used by the Holy Spirit to "cast out" a demon from a witch doctor
in Haiti...the witch doctor was healed/and got saved...this happened last year when a team from church went to Haiti to provide various helps to the people there.

Laying on of hands... Jesus and the disciples did this.
I note it was also done without actual "laying on of hands" on people...examples: Matthew 8:8; Acts 19:11-12.

This healing included more than the "laying on of hands"... Elisha raised a child from the dead in a slightly different manner: 2Kings 4:34 "And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and he stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm."

1 Timothy 5:22 cautions about laying on of hands...
"Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do
not share in the sins of others.
Keep yourself pure."

Don't be quick to elect/appoint someone for church office or services without full trial and examination of said person(s)... as seen in times past, there's been individuals who were put in positions in the church that they were actually unfit for said positions/and or offices.

Keep yourself pure...protect yourself from wrong-doing/sin and or "guilt by association."
Be slow to elect/appoint someone
based on the person being well-educated or charming...make sure he or she is the real deal
and not a "wolf in sheep's clothing."