Casting out demons....

[LoricaLady]

STRACHAN - Amen.

I would add, let us look around us, let us look inside our own selves and see, that sin ain't gone away because we accepted Messiah as Savior. Yes, we may have had wonderful miracles of deliverances of various kinds but...somehow we still do sin, we mess up, we can't seem to get total freedom over what ails us physically and spiritually. That is 100% of the times what I have observed in Christians.

I have been listening to vids by Graham Powell and reading his book Christian Set Yourself Free, which is about self deliverance. Powell talks about how He loved our Savior, spoke in tongues, served Him as a Pastor, fasted often and prayed almost continuously. Yet....he could not get freed from a terrible depression or from a case of asthma. With deliverance he was set free from those awful problems and much more, not to mention how many people he saw who were freed from countless ailments.

I have seen people on this website bemoaning the fact that they have accepted Messiah as Savior and yet they are having demonic attacks. They can't understand and want prayer. It is easy for us to sit back and judge and condemn and say, "Well! You probably never were saved." I suggest if we do that we may need deliverance from deception and pride.

Messiah told us to cast our demons. In fact casting our demons is so important to Him that it is listed as the first part of The Great Commission. If we say He was only speaking of nonbelievers in Him, we are adding to the Scriptures. He never said any such thing! (In fact the people He could not heal were those who had no faith in Him!) Nothing in the Bible says any such thing. We are sternly warned not to add to, or subtract from, the Word.

Our Savior told us to cast out demons. How many here who say "No, Christians can't be oppressed by demons" (the Bible never uses the word "possessed") are doing that, even with non believers? I'm sure not one of those people has ever cast out a single demon in obedience to Him. Ever. I say it's high time we all learned to do that! With humble prayer and fasting - of course.

 

[Mister_Al]

Have a look at Paul in the New Testament. Generally we understand "a messenger of God" as meaning an Angel, right? What then is a messenger of Satan?

Paul is referring to the false apostles that would come into the new Churches that Paul had established in Christ and start preaching to the new Christians that they had to follow the Law of Moses. This is Paul's messenger from satan that was sent to buffet him (his thorn in the flesh).

Also, if you (LoricaLady) have a scripture reference to a demon being cast out of a Christian then please post it for us all to consider.

Alan

 

[faroukfarouk]

There isn't any mention of the Disciples casting demons out of any Christians in the New Testament. The demons that were cast out were from people that weren't saved.

Life is full of twists and turns and trials, but to attribute all of your problems to demonic oppression is silly. The devil will lie to you and try to make you believe that he has a "right" to attack you because you have sinned, or he'll try to make you think that he has put sickness on you but the Bible says by His stripes you're healed. The devil's only weapon against you is his lies and if he can get you to believe them then you have given him power that he doesn't have. Anything that contradicts the word of God is the devil's lie and his lie will yield itself to the truth of God's word if you just hold fast to it. How did Jesus rebuke satan in the wilderness? He said it is written.

Where are my beliefs coming from? The Bible.

Blessings,

Alan

Romans 8 says: 'And if any man have not the Spirit Christ, he is none of His'. Demons and the Holy Spirit don't co-exist in dwelling in the same person.

 

[Sadiegrl]

Hi LoricaLady and others,

You've got some good feedback on this topic and I'm glad you brought it up. I know a lot of people have their own variations but I agree with what has already been emphasized.

I wanted to mention real quick how even Paul said he asked the Lord to remove his "thorn in the flesh", or a demon that was afflicting him, and the Lord said no because then His power would be make strong in Paul's weaknesses. This does not at all mean Paul was possessed, simply he fought on the spiritual battlefield and knew he was up against demons.

I also think its interesting how when Jesus was with his disciples and went out to pray alone, when He returned, there were some complaints about how the disciples couldn't throw out the demons in some of the people. Jesus was somewhat displeased as it reflected they didn't fully believe, or were still young in the faith perhaps. But Jesus told them that some demons can only be thrown out by fasting and prayer. Obviously, all demons listened to Christ, but as humans with limitations, Christ's power must be fully effected when our fleshly self is subdued...through fasting and prayer.

I do think it is our job as Christians to aid others, but also to understand that by getting in the mix with demons and evil spirits in a deliverance ministry, the devil is going to look for any chinks in our spiritual armor and attack us there full force. We must be fully surrendered to Christ, moment by moment if we are to effectively cast out demons from others.

Also Jesus warned people that once a demon is cast out, if Christ does not fill the whole heart, then the demon will roam around and eventually return to its first haunt and seeing the place clean but vacant (ie no Christ) then it will go and get 7 other more vile spirits and enjoy themselves. So when a non-Christian is delivered, it is important to use that opportunity to teach them of Christ, baptize them in water and the Holy Spirit, then they are good to go and no demonic possession anymore.

Thanks!

 

[Mister_Al]

Al, I too am in the deliverance ministry and for the most part by far the people being set free are mostly all Christian. Let me ask this, other than the Bible, name even one published and recognised book on deliverance that states a Christian cannot be affected by demons. I have not seen any in bookstores.

I don't decide doctrinal issues on books I find in bookstores. I have the Holy Spirit to teach me and I don't read others opinions on what the Bible says about a matter. I base my beliefs on what the Bible says. If I'm wrong then the Spirit will let me know.

Blessings,

Alan

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi LoricaLady and others,

You've got some good feedback on this topic and I'm glad you brought it up. I know a lot of people have their own variations but I agree with what has already been emphasized.

I wanted to mention real quick how even Paul said he asked the Lord to remove his "thorn in the flesh", or a demon that was afflicting him, and the Lord said no because then His power would be make strong in Paul's weaknesses. This does not at all mean Paul was possessed, simply he fought on the spiritual battlefield and knew he was up against demons.

I also think its interesting how when Jesus was with his disciples and went out to pray alone, when He returned, there were some complaints about how the disciples couldn't throw out the demons in some of the people. Jesus was somewhat displeased as it reflected they didn't fully believe, or were still young in the faith perhaps. But Jesus told them that some demons can only be thrown out by fasting and prayer. Obviously, all demons listened to Christ, but as humans with limitations, Christ's power must be fully effected when our fleshly self is subdued...through fasting and prayer.

I do think it is our job as Christians to aid others, but also to understand that by getting in the mix with demons and evil spirits in a deliverance ministry, the devil is going to look for any chinks in our spiritual armor and attack us there full force. We must be fully surrendered to Christ, moment by moment if we are to effectively cast out demons from others.

Also Jesus warned people that once a demon is cast out, if Christ does not fill the whole heart, then the demon will roam around and eventually return to its first haunt and seeing the place clean but vacant (ie no Christ) then it will go and get 7 other more vile spirits and enjoy themselves. So when a non-Christian is delivered, it is important to use that opportunity to teach them of Christ, baptize them in water and the Holy Spirit, then they are good to go and no demonic possession anymore.

Thanks!

sadiegrl: Yes, I agree that doctrinally a thorn in the flesh, and demons, are distinct. As regards thorns in the flesh, whatever they may be, the Lord strengthens His people by His grace to endure suffering.

 

[LoricaLady]

Mister-Al - Also, if you (LoricaLady) have a scripture reference to a demon being cast out of a Christian then please post it for us all to consider.

When Messiah gave the Great Commission, where the first thing He told His followers to do was to cast out demons, where does He say, "And btw this only means non believers. I am focusing just on them in my first directive to you." Of course he said no such thing. As I asked rhetorically in general, earlier, I now ask you specifically a Q. What have you done to be obedient to His directive? How many spirits have you cast out? What studies have you even done on the topic? Have you asked the Holy Spirit for guidance and help in how to cast out demons so that you can be obedient to Him?

Sorry, but until you can tell me how many demons you have cast out, I don't consider you to be an expert whatsoever at all, period.

More Bible verses about casting out demons which no way indicate those delivered were non believers and which seem to actually be believers:

32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.

33 And all the city was gathered together at the door.

34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

Once again, though you are adamant that only non believers get demons cast out of them, no way does the Bible say any such thing! Where do you see the words "and cast out many devils from those who did not believe in Him?" Do you think people who rejected Messiah were going to generally let Him "operate" on them? Probably a few would give it a go, but by far it would be believers who would be asking for His help. When I was an unbeliever I would have laughed at a healer, and laughed harder at someone who claimed to toss out demons. I would not let such a person get near me to do anything.

Acts 19
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Do a study on how release from demons and illness are bound together over and over as in the sentence above. Do you think healing is just for unbelievers? Do you think all those people who were trying to get their loved ones healed had no faith? Of course they did. Do you think all their loved ones had no faith? Highly unlikely. Besides we know they were being healed and Messiah would not work where there was no faith.

Once again, sorry, but you are adding words to the Scriptures when you say demons are only to be tossed from unbelievers. Nowhere, nowhere is that ever said. Ever.

Again, in the story of the woman who was bent over for years, we see her in the Temple. Did she express any unbelief in Messiah? Did she resist his help or speak words of rejection to Him? Was she described in any way at all as being a sinner of any kind? No, she was simply called "a daughter of Abraham." Messiah said her infirmity was due to her being bound by the devil.

If you don't want to believe that casting out evil spirits is a gift, even a command, from Messiah, or want to believe it was for unbelievers only, that's up to you. I don't really want to debate it with you anymore. I've done the best I could to explain it here and elsewhere. Go to the Holy Spirit and get guidance.

Oh, but if you have cast out any demons, I would like to hear all about that! (No I haven't cast out any myself but I am learning on this topic so that I can be obedient to the Great Commission. I think the Church's casual, often dismissive, sometimes attacking attitude toward that is part of reason it is in so many ways failing.)

 

[RDKirk]

Where are your beliefs of that coming from? They don't have a legal right to the christian? So? They are DEMONS they don't care what they have a right to.

Yes a christian may need deliverance. They won't be full on depress but they may have serious problems coming from a demon. They could be having health problems that are from a demon, of be struggling with a sin that demon is making much mucher harder to abstain from.

It's not an issue of "legal right," it's the fact that the Holy Spirit inhabits a Christian, and the Holy Spirit will not share habitation with a demon.

That's why, as quoted above, "Then it says, ‘I will return to the person I came from.’ So it returns and finds its former home empty, swept, and in order. Then the spirit finds seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they all enter the person and live there."

We see two things in that verse. One is that demons do share habitation with other demons. So "former home empty" means it's empty of the Holy Spirit, because otherwise it would simply move in with whatever demon was there.

We know from the book of Job that a demon can attack a person externally--attack his possessions, his family, and even his flesh. A demon can effect his environment, and affect the people around him.

Remember that there is an untold number of demons, that they are immortal, and they share information (Acts 19:15). Demons have billions of hours of studying human nature. I suspect they know each of our histories, know our family histories, watched our "buttons" installed as we grew up, and know exactly how to press them. Our only edge is the Holy Spirit. I suspect that it's only when we operate within the Holy Spirit that a demon ever says, "I didn't see that coming."

 

[RDKirk]

When you become a christian, you need to cast any demons that were in you BEFORE you became a christian out.

No, a demon cannot enter someone who is already a christian.

As for unbelievers, once those demons are cast out, they of course need to stay in faith usually they hear the gospel at this time. If they dont, it is of no effect, demons will go back in.

I don't think someone who is fully possessed can confess. In nearly every case in which enough detail is given to make a judgment, Jesus is brought to the possessed person or that person is brought by others--that person has not sought out Jesus.

The exception is Paul and Silas in Philippi, but in that case, the demon may not have known what it was getting into. There is no indication that the woman had any faith beforehand or became a believer afterward. That could be a case of a demon saying, "I didn't see that coming."

 

[faroukfarouk]

It's not an issue of "legal right," it's the fact that the Holy Spirit inhabits a Christian, and the Holy Spirit will not share habitation with a demon.

Well, exactly. I agree.

 

[Dave-W]

Deliverance is real. I knew Prince informally and found him to be the best bible teacher I ever came across. I also knew Don Basham (another pioneer in the deliverance ministry) and I would suggest his book "Deliver us from Evil." It is the story of how he came to grips with the demonic.

Prince made the point that in the gospels, "possessed" is an inaccurate translation since that word indicates ownership. The greek would more accurately be rendered "demonized" indicating an attachment or profound influence.

I have ministered deliverance to people and have had it done to me as well. Some were successful and others - not so much. I count that as due to a lack of proper discernment.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't think someone who is fully possessed can confess. In nearly every case in which enough detail is given to make a judgment, Jesus is brought to the possessed person or that person is brought by others--that person has not sought out Jesus.

In the NT there is only one instance where the Greek supports the word "possessed;" and that is with the slave girl who was possessed by a spirit of divination in Acts 16.

As to the other, do not forget the Gerasene demoniac who had the legion of demons. (Mark 5, Luke 8) He had over 2000 spirits attached to him but he still was able to drag himself before the Lord.

 

[LoricaLady]

Dave-W Ohev - Thanks for your input. I will check into Deliver Us From Evil. (Interesting to see a Messianic involved in deliverance. That's as it should be, of course.)

 

[Mister_Al]

Deliverance is real. I knew Prince informally and found him to be the best bible teacher I ever came across. I also knew Don Basham (another pioneer in the deliverance ministry) and I would suggest his book "Deliver us from Evil." It is the story of how he came to grips with the demonic.

Prince made the point that in the gospels, "possessed" is an inaccurate translation since that word indicates ownership. The greek would more accurately be rendered "demonized" indicating an attachment or profound influence.

I have ministered deliverance to people and have had it done to me as well. Some were successful and others - not so much. I count that as due to a lack of proper discernment.

Yes, deliverance IS real. It happens when someone gets born again.

As for Derek Prince, I'll just say that opinions vary on his teachings.

Luke 4:10Amplified Bible (AMP)
10 For it is written, He will give His angels charge over you to guard and watch over you closely and carefully;

Alan

 

[Dave-W]

Yes, deliverance IS real. It happens when someone gets born again.

Really? EVERY INSTANCE in the NT of a demon leaving a person gives some kind of manifestation; either they get thrown about or a voice speaks out of them or they fall unconsious.

When was the last time you saw any of that when a person gets born again?

 

[Dave-W]

As for Derek Prince, I'll just say that opinions vary on his teachings.

Of course. Anyone who dares to tell the truth in a situation where a false belief has been established is never well received; especially by those with a vested interest in the status quo.

 

[Mister_Al]

So, are you saying that what God provided through Jesus is not enough to deliver a person from the power of a demon?

Before I was saved I was into the occult for a couple of years. When I got saved it seemed like every demon in hell came after me. Another Christian led me to a deliverance ministry for help. For weeks/months the ministers supposedly cast out demons and broke generational curses and nothing seemed to help. I believed in what they were doing, though, because, after all, they knew more than I did and everything they did was biblical according to their teachings.

I soon grew in the ways of deliverance and after a year or so I was made a minister myself. I shared their precepts as I tried to help others, but I noticed that the same people kept coming back every week to be delivered, and I was was still being tormented myself. Until one night the Lord spoke to me in the ministry and told me I wasn't supposed to be there. I left the next day and the Lord started explaining the Scriptures to me at home. I then noticed that the more I understood the more the torment subsided. I also learned that when I was attacked I could fight back by quoting scripture and soon end/prevent the attacks altogether.

God has personally delivered me from all of the things that the deliverance ministry couldn't just by teaching me the truth of His word. Haven't you ever studied the Full Armor of God? When you know the truth you can recognize the lies and resist the devil with the word until he flees. That's deliverance.

Blessings,

Alan

 

[LoricaLady]

Mister-Al - If you are walking around bondage free, with no besetting sins at all, and are keeping on the full armour of the Almighty 100% of the times, how wonderful for you. How unusual, too. Sadly, I've never seen anyone who came anywhere near to being sin free/bondage free.

I'm very sorry that the particular deliverance ministry you worked with, and your own attempts at self deliverance, were not successful. Naturally such experiences would make you feel skeptical. This does not negate the fact that deliverance has set countless others free, nor does it negate the fact that we are told to "cast our demons."

You have your story. Others have theirs. They conflict. This is not uncommon. That's why we all need to be really sure who we are hearing from is the Holy Spirit, with praise and prayer and fasting. There is more than one voice out there, as Messiah said, and there are wolves as well as sheep in the Churches. We all have had the experience of being deceived and confused. More than once!

Oh, but if you ever do decide to fulfill the Great Commission and cast out demons, I'd really like to hear all about it if you don't mind. Since you are sure deliverance is only for nonbelievers I wonder where you might go to follow Messiah's directive? Maybe you could go into crack house and start casting out demons? That should be interesting. Or how about showing up where some Hell's Angels are gathering? Maybe you could start commanding demons to leave from them? I wonder how happy they would be with you. Whatever. It would be so interesting to hear all about it. Do report back when you have seen progress casting out demons from those who have no faith in Messiah, if you don't mind.

 

[Goodbook]

I think..the important thing is once those demons are cast out to make sure they dont get back in.
Some deliverance ministers are shoddy in that they arent perisistant enough. You need to cast them out by force and then its up to the believer to really make sure they are out. If they keep coming back to you, they havent got the word in them properly, OR you werent properly fasting as well as praying.

The sons of sceva tried to cast out demons but it didnt work because..they werent believers.

Theres more I can say..but yes those manisfestations are real. You have to be careful cos a demon can put up a big fight, but most of the lesser ones just go when they are told to. Its not just one demon you have to get rid of the head one.

 

[RDKirk]

In the NT there is only one instance where the Greek supports the word "possessed;" and that is with the slave girl who was possessed by a spirit of divination in Acts 16.

As to the other, do not forget the Gerasene demoniac who had the legion of demons. (Mark 5, Luke 8) He had over 2000 spirits attached to him but he still was able to drag himself before the Lord.

And when he was come forth upon the land, there met him a certain man out of the city, who had demons; and for a long time he had worn no clothes, and abode not in [any] house, but in the tombs.

And when he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I beseech thee, torment me not.

For he was commanding the unclean spirit to come out from the man. For oftentimes it had seized him: and he was kept under guard, and bound with chains and fetters; and breaking the bands asunder, he was driven of the demon into the deserts.

And Jesus asked him, What is thy name? And he said, Legion; for many demons were entered into him.

That sounds to me like the demon was in full control--notice that the "he" refers continually to the demon.

But I will assert again, a person who is inhabited by the Holy Spirit cannot be inhabited by a demon.