Discussion Can you lose your salvation ? -and all the variance of topic is leads to

[ToBeLoved]

I have given my contribution to this thread. I will be unfollowing as I have nothing more to say, that I am going to say. I have made my perspective clear.

God bless.

 

[jiminpa]

Once saved always saved doesn't matter. In your heart do you detest God's laws or do you delight in them? In your heart do you know the way of God is the right way? In your heart do you desire to do his will? In the heart of a believer, none of the following answers should be no, but a sure, yes. We all struggle with our own character issues, I also believe we also suffer or have suffered with our own addictions. I can see both sides of the discussion. God desires all to be saved, God devised the master plan to bring man back into a relationship with him. Are there holes in his plan? No. I believe one day after we are done with this life we will be able to look back and say, wow i can't believe it was that simple all a long. I could have done so much more, if I, as a human didn't complicate things. The simple answer is we must do the work of God, and the work of God is believe in the one who was sent. If you find yourself beat down with guilt, or doubt that is not from God. God says don't doubt, God says you're not guilty.

God's will for anyone's life is not to be granted grace to stay in their current state, but be changed. Why be changed? Be changed not only for or own current life salvation, but for others as well. How can we be effective working for the Lord if we are still in our old way of life? Who will take anyone like that seriously? We must be changed by the truth so that others can be changed by the truth. God's plan is to change the world, not just change you or me. I think one thing to remember about discussions like this is to not 'devour one another' as Paul said. Anyone who is too obsessed with the theory of OSAS probably missed the whole point of the Gospel. Our greatest commandment is the love God with all your heart, and the second one is like it, to love others as we love ourselves, in this the whole law is upheld. Jesus is the answer to our salvation, Love is the answer to life.

If you are staying as you are it's not grace. It might be mercy, but that's questionable as well. Grace moves us further on. It molds us more and more into God's likeness. This "grace" that forgives us and leaves us defeated in our own lusts is a fiction.

 

[Alithis]

I have given my contribution to this thread. I will be unfollowing as I have nothing more to say, that I am going to say. I have made my perspective clear.

God bless.

Thats nice.. Not that you actually contributed any scripture..though you asked for it a lot then ignored it when presented.

 

[Alithis]

If you are staying as you are it's not grace. It might be mercy, but that's questionable as well. Grace moves us further on. It molds us more and more into God's likeness. This "grace" that forgives us and leaves us defeated in our own lusts is a fiction.

Hmm you worded that very well

 

[jiminpa]

Hmm you worded that very well

Awww, thank you. I firmly believe it. "Grace" gets tossed around to mean everything but what it really is, and I think it's a shame, because Biblical grace is so powerful.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Grace keeps you saved for ever. It is moral law which condems. Jesus is grace. Why do u reject osas given by Jesus' love & make your life difficult?

 

[Gideons300]

Grace keeps you saved for ever. It is moral law which condems. Jesus is grace. Why do u reject osas given by Jesus' love & make your life difficult?

The problem is that the New Testament is filled with warnings, from the parables of Christ, to the teachings of Peter, Paul, and the others. People say that because the exact words "losing your salvation" is not found in scripture, that all is well. Being spit out of the mouth of God certainly must mean something else, right?

But what should concern us is that we, for the most part, do not care if we make our God sick, as long as we get into Heaven. We do not want to fight against sin in our lives, or love like Christ loved, for we think it is a battle that cannot be won, so why waste the effort? So let's eat, drink and be merry and wait for the rapture bus.

Why watch against the wiles of the devil, if in the end, we get the keys to our mansion regardless? Sure, I think most would agree in theory that it would be nice to actually obey God but that is the extent of it. Heck, it would be acceptable to our God If we wanted to walk in full obedience, or even to cry out to Him like Paul did.... as wretched men..... because we too want to obey Him in all things.

But let's be honest here. The sad truth here is that the masses that fill our churches every Sunday do not really care about becoming living sacrifices, nor being taught by the grace they say they love as to HOW to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. Truth? I think we all know so.

In our lifetimes, we have seen an amazing thing. We have seen the devil infiltrate our very churches, churches that have turned grace into lasciviousness, or at least tried to, and it is that very mindset that plagued the Laodecians. Let's remember what God told them.

I would rather you stone cold to me rather than be entrenched in a lifeless Christianity that encourages you that going through the motions is fine with Me, all because of grace.

We have fallen for a lie from the pit, and soon we will all see it. Unfortunately, not all will want to change, or bow the knee to him in ALL things. We are entering the valley of decision, and here, there is no middle ground. Either He reigns, or we continue to, and salvation.... OUR salvation..... Is at stake.

Lest we forget, what proves that our one time prayer actually worked is the fact we continue to follow Him, to walk in the light as He is in the light, and thus to endure to the end. And if we find walking the walk too hard, should it not actually bother us? Should we not be found on our knees in tears seeking real grace, grace to change us, free us, and use us so that our lives do not bring dishonor to Him any longer?

The subject of OSAS brings out the arguments aplenty as to why we cannot lose our salvation. But truthfully, that question is not THE question that we need to answer. The subject that should be at the forefront of our minds is why the grace we all claim we love is not teaching us how to live godly lives. Sadly, few are found asking such questions at present, for the path of least resistance, promising eternity but with no requirement to give up ones pearls, or to hate one's old nature, has anethesthesized us into a walk of total lukewarmness, and we think nothing of it.it is time to awake.

With all my heart, I do believe the times really are changing though, and many who now resist the pull of the Spirit, including His warnings and chastenings, will soon weep deep tears of shame and repentance. Praise God, it is not too late, and they will find that there is power in grace that we have heretofore been totally blinded to. God has promised to "cause us" to walk obediently. We are about to discover that this is no exaggeration. But the first step is to want it. It is the hardest of all the steps back to pleasing our Father, for satan knows that if the sleeping giant is reawakened, all bets are off.

A new day is dawning, and not a moment too soon. The church is down, but not out, and soon, men that once reviled our shallowness, worldliness, and abject hypocrisy, will instead exclaim "Look! That which bore only briars and thorns has become once again like the garden of Eden."

I can't wait. How about you?

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Alithis]

Grace keeps you saved for ever. It is moral law which condemns. Jesus is grace. Why do u reject osas given by Jesus' love & make your life difficult?

not if you walk in disobedience to it .to come to the conclusion your want ..you have to ignore so much scripture .it is not the biblical conclusion ,it is what you 'want " ..but why ? is there a particular sin you desire to continue doing so that you can have both sin and be saved ?
you can't have it both ways .

 

[Alithis]

The problem is that the New Testament is filled with warnings, from the parables of Christ, to the teachings of Peter, Paul, and the others. People say that because the exact words "losing your salvation" is not found in scripture, that all is well. Being spit out of the mouth of God certainly must mean something else, right?

But what should concern us is that we, for the most part, do not care if we make our God sick, as long as we get into Heaven. We do not want to fight against sin in our lives, or love like Christ loved, for we think it is a battle that cannot be won, so why waste the effort? So let's eat, drink and be merry and wait for the rapture bus.

Why watch against the wiles of the devil, if in the end, we get the keys to our mansion regardless? Sure, I think most would agree in theory that it would be nice to actually obey God but that is the extent of it. Heck, it would be acceptable to our God If we wanted to walk in full obedience, or even to cry out to Him like Paul did.... as wretched men..... because we too want to obey Him in all things.

But let's be honest here. The sad truth here is that the masses that fill our churches every Sunday do not really care about becoming living sacrifices, nor being taught by the grace they say they love as to HOW to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. Truth? I think we all know so.

In our lifetimes, we have seen an amazing thing. We have seen the devil infiltrate our very churches, churches that have turned grace into lasciviousness, or at least tried to, and it is that very mindset that plagued the Laodecians. Let's remember what God told them.

I would rather you stone cold to me rather than be entrenched in a lifeless Christianity that encourages you that going through the motions is fine with Me, all because of grace.

We have fallen for a lie from the pit, and soon we will all see it. Unfortunately, not all will want to change, or bow the knee to him in ALL things. We are entering the valley of decision, and here, there is no middle ground. Either He reigns, or we continue to, and salvation.... OUR salvation..... Is at stake.

Lest we forget, what proves that our one time prayer actually worked is the fact we continue to follow Him, to walk in the light as He is in the light, and thus to endure to the end. And if we find walking the walk too hard, should it not actually bother us? Should we not be found on our knees in tears seeking real grace, grace to change us, free us, and use us so that our lives do not bring dishonor to Him any longer?

The subject of OSAS brings out the arguments aplenty as to why we cannot lose our salvation. But truthfully, that question is not THE question that we need to answer. The subject that should be at the forefront of our minds is why the grace we all claim we love is not teaching us how to live godly lives. Sadly, few are found asking such questions at present, for the path of least resistance, promising eternity but with no requirement to give up ones pearls, or to hate one's old nature, has anethesthesized us into a walk of total lukewarmness, and we think nothing of it.it is time to awake.

With all my heart, I do believe the times really are changing though, and many who now resist the pull of the Spirit, including His warnings and chastenings, will soon weep deep tears of shame and repentance. Praise God, it is not too late, and they will find that there is power in grace that we have heretofore been totally blinded to. God has promised to "cause us" to walk obediently. We are about to discover that this is no exaggeration. But the first step is to want it. It is the hardest of all the steps back to pleasing our Father, for satan knows that if the sleeping giant is reawakened, all bets are off.

A new day is dawning, and not a moment too soon. The church is down, but not out, and soon, men that once reviled our shallowness, worldliness, and abject hypocrisy, will instead exclaim "Look! That which bore only briars and thorns has become once again like the garden of Eden."

I can't wait. How about you?

Blessings,

Gideon

stop waiting bro.. it is already happened .
all it takes now is repentance ..water baptism and obedience= go and DO the gospel .

 

[Alithis]

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.... it is grasped now by faith ..it is revealed and received at his coming .. we hold on to it by fsith until we actully recive it ..

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith,being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, interesting words they show that some folks faith may not be genuine and testing shows this insincerity up

8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not seeHim, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls...interesting again.. it is at the end of maintained faith that the actual salvation is recieved

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

Living Before God Our Father
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”so what happens if we DONT gird up the loins of our mind or be obedient children /what happens if we do conform to this world in rebellion against christ and are thereby made unholy ....

17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stayhere in fear;what are you saying by the spirit Peter ? you mean i can't just cruise it and do anything i want and watch batman vs superman or the avengers and enjoy the occasional sin ? (i jest in all seriousness )
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

The Enduring Word
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in =huh? i have to be OBEDIENT to maintain a purified soul?what have we signed up for here ? sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.”

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

 

[SeventyOne]

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.... it is grasped now by faith ..it is revealed and received at his coming .. we hold on to it by fsith until we actully recive it ..

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith,being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, interesting words they show that some folks faith may not be genuine and testing shows this insincerity up

8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not seeHim, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls...interesting again.. it is at the end of maintained faith that the actual salvation is recieved

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

Living Before God Our Father
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”so what happens if we DONT gird up the loins of our mind or be obedient children /what happens if we do conform to this world in rebellion against christ and are thereby made unholy ....

17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stayhere in fear;what are you saying by the spirit Peter ? you mean i can't just cruise it and do anything i want and watch batman vs superman or the avengers and enjoy the occasional sin ? (i jest in all seriousness )
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

The Enduring Word
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in =huh? i have to be OBEDIENT to maintain a purified soul?what have we signed up for here ? sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.”

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

What makes you convinced you are still saved?

 

[Alithis]

This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness
of their heart; who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off,
concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Do Not Grieve the Spirit
Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbour,”
for we are members of one another. “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
nor give place to the devil. Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labour, working with his hands what is good,
that he may have something to give him who has need. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary
edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed
for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

 

[SeventyOne]

This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness
of their heart; who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off,
concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Do Not Grieve the Spirit
Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbour,”
for we are members of one another. “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
nor give place to the devil. Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labour, working with his hands what is good,
that he may have something to give him who has need. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary
edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed
for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

I assume that means you think you are saved based on the way you act. Again, you are very confusing in the way you write. Exactly what is the cutoff for you? I mean, how many times can you break the Law, in your opinion, until you are no longer saved, and are you implying that you keep all this perfectly at all times?

 

[Alithis]

I assume that means you think you are saved based on the way you act. Again, you are very confusing in the way you write. Exactly what is the cutoff for you? I mean, how many times can you break the Law, in your opinion, until you are no longer saved, and are you implying that you keep all this perfectly at all times?

it is odd but a repetition that folks always bring up "the law' ..yet i didn't .
it is also a repetition that folks bring up "my life " .. not their own . always desiring to point away from the selves ..

in christ jesus we are born a new .. to be exact we are become a new creation. now adam was a new creation .. and then went and disobeyed God ..
and death came
we also have the ability to disobey god as he speaks to us by his holy Spirit ..but why would we ?
the word of god states that if we walk after the Spirit we WILL NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh ..it does not say we might not .. it does say we WILL NOT .. that involves our own will .. we will to not obey the flesh and we will to obey god ..we do this every day of our present life until that glorious day when we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye into that glorious image of the lord jesus and the corruptible will be swallowed up by the incorruptible .
until then we walk by faith in obedience .. and it is those that endure doing so..who die every day to the desires of the flesh in order to live in the Spirit of life .. that shall be saved .. it is to them that remain consistent in overcoming that a crown of life is given ..not to those who give up and succumb to every base desire of the flesh .

it is they who endure to the end that receive the salvation they presently grasp by faith alone .. if we do not endure in obedience .. we will not be saved for we presently have salvation by faith and we must abide in faith in order to continue holding to that salvation gifted us .if we cast off our faith and succumb to the sinful desire of the flesh we cast off our salvation .

when we have been set free by the blood of christ Jesus our Lord on the cross ,,it means we have been set free ..when we are baptised into his death our old man is dead and the new man has risen up to live in the righteousness of god .indeed is made the righteousness of god in christ jesus ..
and since we ave been set free why oh why would we then go and serve the one from whom we have been delivered ? unless we have not yet been delivered .

how do i know i am saved ? simple ..i am free from the sins that once ruled me .they now have NO dominion over me and no longer control my life ..i am free to listen to and follow the holy Spirit .. as he teached me what is right to do i learn to do what is right .. ever increasingly .by this the holy Spirit bears witness to my spirit that i am at peace with God .
the reason that its written 'to know what is right to do and do it not is sin.. ,is because one must walk in rebellion to NOT do what the holy Spirit is telling us we must do .
disobedience is the sin of rebellion . so as we learn what is right to do .. we musty go and do it for we are not children of disobedience any more but have been set free so that we might live in obedience to god who is life .
its not about keeping and breaking old laws but about walking in life ..if we oppose life ..we will end in death - JEsus is life . as he himself declared . and said if you abide in me and i in you you will ask the father anything and it will be done .
walking in rebellion is not abiding in christ and the lord does not hear an insincere prayer

 

[SeventyOne]

it is odd but a repetition that folks always bring up "the law' ..yet i didn't .
it is also a repetition that folks bring up "my life " .. not their own . always desiring to point away from the selves ..

in christ jesus we are born a new .. to be exact we are become a new creation. now adam was a new creation .. and then went and disobeyed God ..
and death came
we also have the ability to disobey god as he speaks to us by his holy Spirit ..but why would we ?
the word of god states that if we walk after the Spirit we WILL NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh ..it does not say we might not .. it does say we WILL NOT .. that involves our own will .. we will to not obey the flesh and we will to obey god ..we do this every day of our present life until that glorious day when we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye into that glorious image of the lord jesus and the corruptible will be swallowed up by the incorruptible .
until then we walk by faith in obedience .. and it is those that endure doing so..who die every day to the desires of the flesh in order to live in the Spirit of life .. that shall be saved .. it is to them that remain consistent in overcoming that a crown of life is given ..not to those who give up and succumb to every base desire of the flesh .

it is they who endure to the end that receive the salvation they presently grasp by faith alone .. if we do not endure in obedience .. we will not be saved for we presently have salvation by faith and we must abide in faith in order to continue holding to that salvation gifted us .if we cast off our faith and succumb to the sinful desire of the flesh we cast off our salvation .

when we have been set free by the blood of christ Jesus our Lord on the cross ,,it means we have been set free ..when we are baptised into his death our old man is dead and the new man has risen up to live in the righteousness of god .indeed is made the righteousness of god in christ jesus ..
and since we ave been set free why oh why would we then go and serve the one from whom we have been delivered ? unless we have not yet been delivered .

how do i know i am saved ? simple ..i am free from the sins that once ruled me .they now have NO dominion over me and no longer control my life ..i am free to listen to and follow the holy Spirit .. as he teached me what is right to do i learn to do what is right .. ever increasingly .by this the holy Spirit bears witness to my spirit that i am at peace with God .
the reason that its written 'to know what is right to do and do it not is sin.. ,is because one must walk in rebellion to NOT do what the holy Spirit is telling us we must do .
disobedience is the sin of rebellion . so as we learn what is right to do .. we musty go and do it for we are not children of disobedience any more but have been set free so that we might live in obedience to god who is life .
its not about keeping and breaking old laws but about walking in life ..if we oppose life ..we will end in death - JEsus is life . as he himself declared . and said if you abide in me and i in you you will ask the father anything and it will be done .
walking in rebellion is not abiding in christ and the lord does not hear an insincere prayer

It's not odd at all that people take what you say and refer to the Law. It may not be what you are saying explicitly, but you are certainly saying it implicitly. When you say "if we do not endure in obedience .. we will not be saved", that's salvation by works of the Law.

But the Law cannot save us, never could, and never will. "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24. You will never be justified by the Law, by any means, at any time.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10. You say it doesn't have dominion over you, but that doesn't matter in this regard, sin once and you're guilty of all of it, dominated or not. James here says nothing about being dominated, he simply says "stumbles". People don't stumble intentionally. One unintentional sin and you're toast.

But the good news here is that you are completely wrong. Salvation isn't obtained or maintained by our works.

 

[Job8]

If we can't do anything to earn our salvation, how can anything we do void our salvation? The Gospel is clear. Once God saves us through Jesus Christ, we're His, and He'll continue to work in us until the day of Jesus' return.

It all boils down to believing God and rejecting the doctrines of men. Just so the naysayers may not continue, we have this Scripture which sums up the gift of salvation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10).

 

[Alithis]

It all boils down to believing God and rejecting the doctrines of men. Just so the naysayers may not continue, we have this Scripture which sums up the gift of salvation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10).

no one has said anything to deny this verse what so ever .. but we are saved for a purpose and it is to serve god obediently in righteousness and bear fruit - if we we do do what we are saved from sin to do then we are a fruitless branch ,,cut off and cast into the fire .

every knows it but not everyone wants to admit it .it is plain and simple scripture .

 

[Alithis]

It's not odd at all that people take what you say and refer to the Law. It may not be what you are saying explicitly, but you are certainly saying it implicitly. When you say "if we do not endure in obedience .. we will not be saved", that's salvation by works of the Law.

But the Law cannot save us, never could, and never will. "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24. You will never be justified by the Law, by any means, at any time.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10. You say it doesn't have dominion over you, but that doesn't matter in this regard, sin once and you're guilty of all of it, dominated or not. James here says nothing about being dominated, he simply says "stumbles". People don't stumble intentionally. One unintentional sin and you're toast.

But the good news here is that you are completely wrong. Salvation isn't obtained or maintained by our works.

there you go again waffling on about law ,and nope , i never bought it up ,you did .

and if we do not endure in obedience we are already unsaved the rebellious do not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

as for the rest of what you have said , it is pointless waffle .,i am not under the law i am a new creation in christ Jesus ,i have died into his death by burial in baptism and been raised again into his resurrection.
in him the fulness of the law is already fulfilled and as we walk in obedience to the holy Spirit we will never break the perfect law of God ,to do so we must rebel against god all over again .why would we do that except we love sin more than we love the lord Jesus ?

and if we do that and we continue to do so it is written that we do not know god ..thus are not saved .
no one has ever said if you commit one sin your lost .. but neither does the word of god state there is any reason to commit one sin, to commit a sin we must know unambiguously it is sin and then choose to do it ..we cannot commit such a wilful sin by accident . so neither can we accidentally lose our salvation .

so if one who claims to be saved then continues in a repetitive practice of sin they will not be saved on the day of the lord ..
it does not mater of they have done a one off act of repentance or water baptism or if they have received the holy Spirit -because the truth is ..if they truly have done done all that -they WILL NOT continue in the ongoing practice of sin .it is you who bought up a 'stumble ' not me .. we may tragically stumble and if we do there is forgiveness UPON REPENTANCE never without repentance .. the word of god says so.. but there is a HUGE HUGE difference between a one off tragic muck up ...and a continued practice .

ie - the lord set me free from sexual immorality in the sin of adultery -in modern speak its calal 'inappropriate content" ... after i was set free and forgiven i recall a time ..knowing it to be wrong that i allows myself to fall to it .. -the conviction of the lord came heavily upon me and the fear of god fell on me and he chastised me and it was the most awful thing i have known ,so i cried out to god in repentance and he graciously forgave me my sin.. and the result of that is i have NEVER done so ever again and never will .
no one stumbles accidentally .

i hear that kind of waffle but wow ==it is tripe and lies . try it on your spouse ..

i can see it now ..oh hun im really sorry i didn't mean to do it ..i was just walking down the street and i accidently had sex with that lady ... -yeah umm what ever . he/she is NOT going to buy that line .. yet some expect christians and god to be fooled by that ?

time to get real with god
we are NOT speaking of a tragic muck up . we are speaking of a continued practice of sin .
ig you call oneself a disciple of the lord jesus and you continue in the repetitive practice of sin..you're simply not yet saved from sin..
and there remains this hope that you can be if you repent ,be baptised my immersion to be buried into his death and rise again in his resurrection and receive the holy Spirit and the power to overcome .

and if you have done all that and know freedom and understand freedom and then turn back to walk in sin.. there awaits only a fearful judgment if you do not repent and cease practicing Sin that you know darn well is sin .

THAT.. is what the scriptures state ..very clearly and unambiguously

 

[Gideons300]

there you go again waffling on about law ,and nope , i never bought it up ,you did .

and if we do not endure in obedience we are already unsaved the rebellious do not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

as for the rest of what you have said , it is pointless waffle .,i am not under the law i am a new creation in christ Jesus ,i have died into his death by burial in baptism and been raised again into his resurrection.
in him the fulness of the law is already fulfilled and as we walk in obedience to the holy Spirit we will never break the perfect law of God ,to do so we must rebel against god all over again .why would we do that except we love sin more than we love the lord Jesus ?

and if we do that and we continue to do so it is written that we do not know god ..thus are not saved .
no one has ever said if you commit one sin your lost .. but neither does the word of god state there is any reason to commit one sin, to commit a sin we must know unambiguously it is sin and then choose to do it ..we cannot commit such a wilful sin by accident . so neither can we accidentally lose our salvation .

so if one who claims to be saved then continues in a repetitive practice of sin they will not be saved on the day of the lord ..
it does not mater of they have done a one off act of repentance or water baptism or if they have received the holy Spirit -because the truth is ..if they truly have done done all that -they WILL NOT continue in the ongoing practice of sin .it is you who bought up a 'stumble ' not me .. we may tragically stumble and if we do there is forgiveness UPON REPENTANCE never without repentance .. the word of god says so.. but there is a HUGE HUGE difference between a one off tragic muck up ...and a continued practice .

ie - the lord set me free from sexual immorality in the sin of adultery -in modern speak its calal 'inappropriate content" ... after i was set free and forgiven i recall a time ..knowing it to be wrong that i allows myself to fall to it .. -the conviction of the lord came heavily upon me and the fear of god fell on me and he chastised me and it was the most awful thing i have known ,so i cried out to god in repentance and he graciously forgave me my sin.. and the result of that is i have NEVER done so ever again and never will .
no one stumbles accidentally .

i hear that kind of waffle but wow ==it is tripe and lies . try it on your spouse ..

i can see it now ..oh hun im really sorry i didn't mean to do it ..i was just walking down the street and i accidently had sex with that lady ... -yeah umm what ever . he/she is NOT going to buy that line .. yet some expect christians and god to be fooled by that ?

time to get real with god
we are NOT speaking of a tragic muck up . we are speaking of a continued practice of sin .
ig you call oneself a disciple of the lord jesus and you continue in the repetitive practice of sin..you're simply not yet saved from sin..
and there remains this hope that you can be if you repent ,be baptised my immersion to be buried into his death and rise again in his resurrection and receive the holy Spirit and the power to overcome .

and if you have done all that and know freedom and understand freedom and then turn back to walk in sin.. there awaits only a fearful judgment if you do not repent and cease practicing Sin that you know darn well is sin .

THAT.. is what the scriptures state ..very clearly and unambiguously

Thank you for your faithfulness, Michael. I would like to add just a word of encouragement for any who really are desiring to obey, and to keep their bodies under, yet who find to their dismay that they cannot.

It is the state of our hearts that determine where we are with God. To those struggling with an out of control flesh, who truly hate their failures and long to please their God, good news. God is pleased with such a heart. Continue to fight and if you slip into sin, pick yourself up and set your affection again on the one who graciously forgives when we admit our sin in repentance. There really is victory for you if you faint not. It is coming, and sooner than you think!

Sadly, there are multitudes in church who have no battle in their lives with evil, not because they have discovered the way to overcoming victory, but because they have laid down their swords and shields short of the promised land and wrapped themselves in a false grace where God winks at their sins. Their confidence is not in the God who promises to deliver us from evil, but in a one time prayer that makes repentance and a longing for a holy heart totally unnecessary. These claim Romans 7 as their abode and that because Paul at one time lived there, they are in good company so all is well.

They err here because they forget that Paul finally escaped this most uncomfortable of places and entered Romans 8. And why did he escape? Because his heart remained towards God, desiring that God change him from being overcome by evil to overcoming it. Tears must precede victory.

Calling a peace treaty with Satan will send millions to hell, for it is God's desire that we fight. We cannot inherit the rest without struggling to go through the wilderness to get there. Praise God, there finally comes that glorious moment when all our efforts have failed, and we have lost all hope in ever defeating the sins that so easily grab us, where we see that the way to defeat sin is not to fight against it but to put it off. How? By our putting off our old nature by faith, and by our believing that we are not that man any longer. It is by our picking up our shield of faith that we are new creatures, with new natures, and that we can now say NO to the enemy when he attacks. We can finally take the way of escape in temptation.... every time. We are about to see millions of struggling saints discover the highway of holiness and everlasting joy shall be upon their heads.

Blessings,

Gids

 

[TillICollapse]

I do not believe we can lose our salvation ... I think that phrase is a misnomer. Saying "We can lose our salvation" is like saying "We can undo Christ's sacrifice." Either Christ was crucified for (partially) such a purpose, or He was not. Arguably, every person who has been allowed to draw breath on this earth after Christ's resurrection, is part of "salvation". I would say it was something that went into effect in it's current manner, the moment Christ triumphed over death. Technically, history could have ended right then and there, but it hasn't, it has continued, and we arguably all fall under the umbrella of "salvation" perhaps, the testimony being that we are here, now.

However, I do believe that not every person's name is written in the Book of Life, and that a person whose name *is* written there, can have their name removed, and thus, not attain eternal life in the Kingdom of God. This isn't the same as "salvation", in my opinion. Salvation is what allows you to exist and offers you an opportunity to be in that Book.