Discussion Can you lose your salvation ? -and all the variance of topic is leads to

Alithis

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can you lose your salvation ?
did you have it in the first place ?

do we have it in present ?
no we have it "by faith "

can we lose it ?
certainly we can ..if it were not so we would not have a conscience which warns us when we stray
if we cannot lose salvation then from what do we stray ? and if, when strayed, from what do we repent ?
and many more questions ..
 

ScottA

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can you lose your salvation ?
did you have it in the first place ?

do we have it in present ?
no we have it "by faith "

can we lose it ?
certainly we can ..if it were not so we would not have a conscience which warns us when we stray
if we cannot lose salvation then from what do we stray ? and if, when strayed, from what do we repent ?
and many more questions ..
We cannot loose our salvation. Salvation is not something you receive like a new outfit - it's a [completely] new you. Old things have past, and all things are made new. The old you is dead, and unless you go back to visit...there is no going back.

The problem is some come only to go through the motions and do not take the leap. They simply are not saved. So if they loose anything, it is simply their interest, and they walk away. That is lost opportunity, not lost salvation.

And then there are some who do make the leap and are all in, but they are of little faith in the promises of God, and go back to their old ways. While that grieves the Holy Spirit (whose job it is to help you), you have lost nothing, but added shame to your lack of faith.
 
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Alithis

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We cannot loose our salvation. Salvation is not something you receive like a new outfit - it's a [completely] new you. Old things have past, and all things are made new. The old you is dead, and unless you go back to visit...there is no going back.

The problem is some come only to go through the motions and do not take the leap. They simply are not saved. So if they loose anything, it is simply their interest, and they walk away. That is lost opportunity, not lost salvation.

And then there are some who do make the leap and are all in, but they are of little faith in the promises of God, and go back to their old ways. While that grieves the Holy Spirit (whose job it is to help you), you have lost nothing, but added shame to your lack of faith.


ok ,two questions to chew over .

while thats often said -1.so how does that explain the many MANY warnings in the scripture. why does the scripture warn againt something that cannot happen ?
&-2 when did you actually receive salvation and how ?
 
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ScottA

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ok ,two questions to chew over .

while thats often said -1.so how does that explain the many MANY warnings in the scripture. why does the scripture warn againt something that cannot happen ?
&-2 when did you actually receive salvation and how ?
1) Most of the scriptures are to the unsaved. Only those "born again of the spirit of God" are saved...and that did not come until most of the scriptures were already written. That was then, this is now.

2) I was born again of the spirit of God in 1986, when after a downward spiral of events, I cried out to God...and He answered, and I was changed.
 
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farout

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can you lose your salvation ?
did you have it in the first place ?

do we have it in present ?
no we have it "by faith "

can we lose it ?
certainly we can ..if it were not so we would not have a conscience which warns us when we stray
if we cannot lose salvation then from what do we stray ? and if, when strayed, from what do we repent ?
and many more questions ..


Faith that Falters, had a Flaw From the Beginning. If a person does not become a true Follower of Jesus Christ, and is in the Word daily, and involved in a church, there is a high likelihood a person only becomes a seeker or just has knowledge of Christ.
 
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Alithis

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1) Most of the scriptures are to the unsaved. Only those "born again of the spirit of God" are saved...and that did not come until most of the scriptures were already written. That was then, this is now.

2) I was born again of the spirit of God in 1986, when after a downward spiral of events, I cried out to God...and He answered, and I was changed.
incorrect ..the warning are in BOTH the Gospels and the letters to "the saints " ... as ALL the epistles and the book of revelations is written directly and expressly to the believers, NOT the unsaved ...so that question remains unanswered . what is the purpose of warning about something that cannot happen ?

and on 2 ..i did not ask you when you were born again.. i asked "when did you receive salvation.. we are assured & it promised it ..that when he returns we will be saved from the wrath of God .. so has that yet happened ? we are promised eternal life .. do we actualy have it Yet ?
yes .. by faith .. with the assurance of the down payment of his spirit if indeed we have received the baptism of his spirit .. . so we have it by faith ,we have the assurance, we have the downpayment .. but even abraham has not yet received the fullness of it . and until we do we can fall from the faith by which it is obtained .
 
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Alithis

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If we can't do anything to earn our salvation, how can anything we do void our salvation? The Gospel is clear. Once God saves us through Jesus Christ, we're His, and He'll continue to work in us until the day of Jesus' return.
sure he continues his work in us .. and his work in us progresses as long as we remain obedient to his work in us . .
 
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ScottA

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incorrect ..the warning are in BOTH the Gospels and the letters to "the saints " ... as ALL the epistles and the book of revelations is written directly and expressly to the believers, NOT the unsaved ...so that question remains unanswered . what is the purpose of warning about something that cannot happen ?

and on 2 ..i did not ask you when you were born again.. i asked "when did you receive salvation.. we are assured & it promised it ..that when he returns we will be saved from the wrath of God .. so has that yet happened ? we are promised eternal life .. do we actualy have it Yet ?
yes .. by faith .. with the assurance of the down payment of his spirit if indeed we have received the baptism of his spirit .. . so we have it by faith ,we have the assurance, we have the downpayment .. but even abraham has not yet received the fullness of it . and until we do we can fall from the faith by which it is obtained .
You have been listening to the doctrines of men. Put the group of saints you are referring to beside the unsaved born since Pentecost, count their numbers, and tell me again that the scriptures are not to the unsaved.

As for what has and has not happened yet...if you do not know, it is only because you were not aware. Luke 12:46 But, you are mistaken: It is finished.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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The difference is between relationship and fellowship. You may go in and out of fellowship, but your relationship cannot be changed by any action of your own. You can no more change your spirit now than you could make yourself born again. It took the death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God to bring about your new birth miracle. That miracle cannot be reversed without an equally miraculous action by God.
Most of warnings in the NT about losing something are merely losses to your temporal salvation... table rights. Health. Prosperity. Sin is wrong and unrepentant sin can bring suffering. But that suffering is in the flesh. You will reap in the flesh the corrupting you sow in the flesh. But eternal life is, well, eternal.
 
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Alithis

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You have been listening to the doctrines of men. Put the group of saints you are referring to beside the unsaved born since Pentecost, count their numbers, and tell me again that the scriptures are not to the unsaved.

As for what has and has not happened yet...if you do not know, it is only because you were not aware. Luke 12:46 But, you are mistaken: It is finished.
lol .. read the intro at the start of each epistles - of course they are written "to the saints " to the saved not the unsaved . . don't be silly .

and what is finished .. that which is required to be done in order to make salvation available .that is what is finished . the lord Jesus need do no more for he fulfilled ALL the righteous requirements of the law -he has done all the father required him to do .

but his work in us is only just begun . his work in us is a journey , a narrow road that leads to life .a road that begins at the cross .a road we must stay on and endure to the end to be saved .
 
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Alithis

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The difference is between relationship and fellowship. You may go in and out of fellowship, but your relationship cannot be changed by any action of your own. You can no more change your spirit now than you could make yourself born again. It took the death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God to bring about your new birth miracle. That miracle cannot be reversed without an equally miraculous action by God.
Most of warnings in the NT about losing something are merely losses to your temporal salvation... table rights. Health. Prosperity. Sin is wrong and unrepentant sin can bring suffering. But that suffering is in the flesh. You will reap in the flesh the corrupting you sow in the flesh. But eternal life is, well, eternal.
are they ?.. shut out . the door shut , weeping and gnashing of teeth , .. as i said before why warn against something that can never happen .. because once we are in heaven with the lord, transformed into immortality .. is cannot happen . but we are not there yet . we have it "by faith "and when he returns we shall have the actual thing -it wont be by faith once we re there .
so if we fall from faith ,, and the scripture is clear we can fall away from our faith and that the love of many wil wax cold (is happening all around us already . that is evident by the vast number of professing christians which have never spoken the gospel to another human being )

the warnings are there because we hold fast to the promise of what is to come .. taking hold of it BY FAITH as IF it already is . Lose faith and you won't be saved .because he also says those who endure to the end will be saved , not those who begin and then look back .

its nothing to be upset about ,the warnings are there to remind us of the danger. but as long as we abide in him and he in us and we walk in obedience to him,we have nothing to fear . for when we are born of him and h dwells in us we do not continue to sin ,we cannot continue in the practice of sin .
so there is no need to be fearful of the warnings the warning are also words of Love .

but they are not there because they warn of what canot happen ,but because they warn of what we must not allow to happen . for it cannot happen unless we allow it .
and again - it can only happen if we persist in disobedience -and why would any decile of the lord JEsus do that when we love him.. and we know that we love him when we love one another and when we obey him.
so if we are loving one another and obeying him we know he is in us and we in him .

of course if we are not walking in obedience to him,, we should certainly repent quickly . for the spirit of antichrist works in the children of disobedience .
 
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SeventyOne

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sure he continues his work in us .. and his work in us progresses as long as we remain obedient to his work in us . .

How obedient? Perfectly at all times? One sin a day? An hour? A minute? Where is the line exactly? How many acts of sin or obedience do I need to know which side of the salvation line I'm on?
 
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Zugzwang

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I was OSAS for years, till this week.
Plainly put, (bc I know no one will listen to two gunslingers in the street) the KJV does a horrible job translating "believe" when it should be "obey". No not all instances of believe should be obey, but if you're sincere on the matter, that is where you start. That is where I started, and that was the only thing that changed my mind.

god bless.
 
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farout

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I was OSAS for years, till this week.
Plainly put, (bc I know no one will listen to two gunslingers in the street) the KJV does a horrible job translating "believe" when it should be "obey". No not all instances of believe should be obey, but if you're sincere on the matter, that is where you start. That is where I started, and that was the only thing that changed my mind.

god bless.


Where did you get your information?
 
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Alithis

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I was OSAS for years, till this week.
Plainly put, (bc I know no one will listen to two gunslingers in the street) the KJV does a horrible job translating "believe" when it should be "obey". No not all instances of believe should be obey, but if you're sincere on the matter, that is where you start. That is where I started, and that was the only thing that changed my mind.

god bless.
makes sense :)

the Lord Jesus said "of you love me keep my commands " we know he was not speaking of the mosaic law commands but rather je is saying .. if you love me you will do (obey) what i tell you to do .

now we cannot love him if we do not obey him . and we cannot do either if we do not believe . so belief and obedience merge together .

thats why i said .. " makes sense "
 
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Alithis

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How obedient? Perfectly at all times? One sin a day? An hour? A minute? Where is the line exactly? How many acts of sin or obedience do I need to know which side of the salvation line I'm on?
one ..act of obedience at a time :)
sin is NEVER an act of obedience .
 
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SavedByGrace3

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and how do we know we have received this gracious gift and are born of God ?

we do not continue in sin (1 john ch 3 )
You never - EVER sin?
 
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