Can you help with this quandary?

[Joseph G]

Of course, I have personal agency. My issue is I feel like I am being driven by something that is instinctively outside of myself. I simply don't recognise it other than being able to acknowledge that its there. Like a colour I have not ever seen before.

Sounds to me that you are being drawn to the true God. You have reason to hope! Here is my prayer for you:

John 6:35-51 NIV

"Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

"At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

"Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I know, and I appreciate that - it's just the antithesis of my established philosophical base as to be almost confusing. There's an old Zen saying "After Enlightenment, the dishes..." If you understand that, then you might understand how its feeling. I also recall a lecturer at my first university saying, "...it doesn't matter whether its right or wrong, its whether it works..." - she was talking about belief, of course.

I guess as difficult as it is for me to admit, I am just looking for some validation.

And in what way have you established your Pragmatically tempered philosophical base?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Of course, I have personal agency. My issue is I feel like I am being driven by something that is instinctively outside of myself. I simply don't recognise it other than being able to acknowledge that its there. Like a colour I have not ever seen before.

That's the Holy Spirit nudging you.

 

[OldWoodsman]

And in what way have you established your Pragmatically tempered philosophical base?

Using Prasangila Madhyamika as my main reference point, regardless of my current experiences, it's watertight and irrefutable.

Essentially all phenomena lack any inherent existence. That's not to say things don't exist, they just don't exist in the way that they appear. All phenomena seem to exist independently, yet a cursive investigation will only reveal a phenomenas' parts and attributes - not the thing that is the possessor of these 'aggregates'. Ultimately, all phenomena including persons are designated by name alone - the name refers to something that is ultimately utterly unfindable.

The sky 'appears' to be blue and that is our experience, but we also know that it is not blue.

However, having said that, I refer back to my current experiences, the above doesn't detract from it at all.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Using Prasangila Madhyamika as my main reference point, regardless of my current experiences, it's watertight and irrefutable.

Essentially all phenomena lack any inherent existence. That's not to say things don't exist, they just don't exist in the way that they appear. All phenomena seem to exist independently, yet a cursive investigation will only reveal a phenomenas' parts and attributes - not the thing that is the possessor of these 'aggregates'. Ultimately, all phenomena including persons are designated by name alone - the name refers to something that is ultimately utterly unfindable.

The sky 'appears' to be blue and that is our experience, but we also know that it is not blue.

However, having said that, I refer back to my current experiences, the above doesn't detract from it at all.

Ok. Right. I'm admittedly not overly familiar with 'Prasangila Madhyamika,' but I think your description about your own praxis is conceptually copacetic on a general level. Your epistemological view is, like most views, defensible on certain points, and if I take what other folks have said, like Lao-Tzu, Pascal, Kant, Hegel, and more modernly, other folks from Fung Yu-Lan in the East to Critical Realists in the West, among other schools of thought, then I'm not going to simply handwave away the dynamics involved in a Tibetan form of critical evaluation of Reality. [Here I'll additionally cite the following Wiki so various inquirers in this thread can follow along with how I'm appraising all of this if they wish:

Svatantrika–Prasaṅgika distinction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But reflecting upon what you've related here and in your OP about how you are presently pondering over the figure of Christ as you've engaged the nature of Christianity, I'd suggest you analytically tease out your own pragmatic expectations for certain belief outcomes from the separate recognition that we all have limited perceptions of the very Reality within which we find ourselves situated and breathing. Doing so may then more finely affect your own current epistemological affinities.

In other words, because Christianity --- whatever it is in and of itself essentially --- exists in a historically and conceptually fragmented and partially obscured state, it sits vulnerable to epistemic leakage and outright refutation by those who may find deep grievances with it. Yet, our recognition of this implies that, on the one hand it could indeed be 'false,' but on the other hand, it may be that neither of us fully understands it.

The real Kicker in all of this is: there is no Red Pill or Blue Pill option by which we can optimally discern and, thereby, choose to take and swallow. Even more to the point, our hope for a bodhisattva to show up and help us out of our quandary is itself prone to the above fragmentation and obscurity.

With that, where do you think our discussion needs to go?

 

[HarleyER]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

"I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man,..."

This isn't Christianity. This is simply another form of religion.

Christ was the Son of God who came into the world to offer salvation and reconciliation to God the Father through His death. Christianity is about a relationship with God, admitting that we are sinners and turning to God for healing. It is a life long journey of trying to understand God through His Scriptures and conform our actions and attitudes towards His will. We accept that we are in a fallen, evil world around us and, despite this fact, we are called to be His ambassadors to this world.

Salvation is very simple.

Romans 10:9​

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;​

Trouble is most will not come to Christ for healing.

Wicked men prosper. Godly men suffer. This has been going on since Day 1. Christians accept this fact and press on, knowing that God is sovereign and in control. This isn't our homeland.

 

[Sir Joseph]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

OldWoodsman, you've raised too many questions or objections for one thread, though I give you credit for seeking God and truth. Might I suggest that most of your issues have been thoroughly addressed by Christian apologists. If you take one concern at a time and do some internet research from Christian sources, you will find abundant answers. Now, let me comment on just two of your issues:

First, we all see that the world is a messed up place, and such can be explained from either a Biblical or secular world view. If macro-evolution's true, then chaos and mayhem are to be expected, leaving the unbeliever no reason or hope for justice, love, or a better world. If Christianity's true, then multiple alleged paradoxes exist, focusing most often on God's love, goodness and power not limiting the evil, pain and suffering in the world. Much has been written on this to both counter the skeptics and comfort the believers, but here's my short, simple explanation.

While God may have created a perfect world for mankind to live comfortably with no calamities or problems, we all recognize that such paradise was quickly replaced with a messed up world of evil, pain and suffering. However, the deteriorated physical and cultural environment hasn't negated God's original intent for us: to love him and to learn how to love others. To that point, our world still offers an effective environment for testing and growing our spiritual development. It teaches us that life here is precarious and temporary, it encourages us to contemplate and seek God, and it provides unlimited opportunities to develop compassion and love for others. In short, it's an intense training ground preparing our souls for the future, eternal life to come.

Second, in today's recent culture of relativism where all religions are considered equal and possible, I understand the offensiveness of declaring Christianity as the one and only true religion. That's only fair though if it's not true. Is it arrogant to acknowledge reality? The skeptic would claim that we can't know such truth (of one religion being right), while at the same time arguing that their view (of all religions being equal and right) is the truth. See the irrational hypocrisy? In the case of religions, they are in fact quite different, and it's not possible for all of them to be true. In most cases, if one's right, the others are wrong. The charge of arrogance is thus an empty one.

Where then are we left in this world where objective truth exists? We must use our hearts and minds to seek it, to sort out the false religions from the right one. To that end, I encourage everyone to study the apologetics of their faith - not just to accept what they were raised with or which one they prefer. Having done so for half of my life, I'm confident that Christianity is the only one that stands the test.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

I don't know what Christian Tradition you belong to, but be aware that Christianity has both a LONG mystical and a LONG intellectual tradition that address these questions.

I mention this because I know from personal experience that many Christians today aren't actually aware of this. I didn't discover it till I was well into my 30's, having been a Christian all my life.

It is probably of little use to try to launch into a big apologetic post, and you'd be better off delving into the riches of the Christian heritage that is available. I will however say this one thing which is taken from C.S. Lewis.

Do your best to distinguish from those things that are real legitimate questions, like what answers are there to the problem of evil? and the very common human phenomenon that even though you have settled on an answer, your mind occasionally will continue to throw up worries "what if I'm wrong? What if it's all just nonsense?"

One of those things is the rational mind craving knowledge and truth. The other is irrational fear that tries to make us dither and waver. The fear will come no matter which side you are on and no matter which answers you accept.
If you decided to reject Christianity you would have the same fears and the same "doubts" but simply in reverse.