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Can we eat pork now?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by KhaosTheory, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. KhaosTheory

    KhaosTheory New Member

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    Some people think the law of unclean meats was part of the "old covenant" and thus is obsolete and "ready to vanish away" (Hebrews 8:13)

    But when I read Acts 10:9-16 I was VERY confused...

    In Peter's vision, a bunch of "unclean" animals were given to Peter and God told him to eat them; but Peter was like "no way! I've never eaten anything unclean before!". God then specially cleansed them so Peter could eat...

    This doesn't make any sense. If the unclean meats laws were abolished then why would God still consider some animals "unclean?"

    Furthermore, Peter lived with Jesus for 3 years... I think if Jesus ever said anything about the unclean meats laws being abolished, then surely Peter of all people would have known this.

    Anyone think it's OK to eat pork and shellfish now? Or is Red Lobster of the devil? :p
     
  2. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    Jesus was born under the law.
    Paul says 6 times we aren't under the law.

    The purity laws of Moses were to seperate Israel from the idol worshiper around them. All nations had purity laws back then so they would know what clan they were apart of. Today we have a passport.

    We aren't Jews. At last I'm not.

    We only have to obey 2 laws: love God and love people. If you can eat pork and shell fish and still love God and people, then your fine.
     
  3. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    Jesus Christ does not abolish any Old Testament laws.

    God says these "food" are not clean. Then they are not clean. That also means if Jews eat them, they sinned.

    In New Testament, God says you "may" eat those unclean food (but with a condition). By eating them, you do NOT sin. However, this does not change the fact that they are still in the unclean category.

    So, yes, you may eat anything and not sin. But pork is still an unclean food. Eat it at your own risk.
     
  4. tzadik

    tzadik Follower of the Messiah

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    Everyone is born under the law. Being under the law does not EQUAL keeping God’s commandments. Think about it for a second, is someone born “capable of keeping God’s commandments?” No!
    I hope that no professing believer is “under the law”. Again “under the law” does NOT = Keeping God’s commandments as a believer.

    rephrase: The purity Instructions of God were given to separate and set apart the people of God from those who are not of God. It was, is and always will be about clean and unclean, holy and unholy, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, Godly and worldly. That never changes. This isn’t simply a “national line in the sand”, this was about separating God’s people from ungodly people.

    My passport doesn’t tell anyone that I’m a child of the King. Living my life in accordance to the rules of the King however does :)

    Me neither. But I am a child of the living God, and as such live by His Commandments. They’re not Jewish commandments, but God’s commandments to His people.

    Where does God tell anyone that they are to live by ONLY two laws. What if I love God, love people and love to lie? What if I love God, love people and love lots of women. What if I love God, love people and practice sorcery? What if I love God, love people and live in sin? The entire Word of God was given for our instruction, rebuke, reproof, correction and training in righteousness, equipping us to do good works unto God.
    When did 2 Timothy 3:16-17 change to “only the two laws”?

    Unless God said, don’t eat pork and shell fish…
     
  5. tzadik

    tzadik Follower of the Messiah

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    Can you show me where God gives us that "may" clause?
     
  6. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Rom.10:4

    I never never hear that being under the law means that one is obeying the law. Being under the law means that one has to obey the law. The NT says several times that we can't obey the law. That if one tries to obey the law they have to obey all the law. Moses' law is one law, not many laws. So either we one it all or we don't obey any of it. James says if we break one of the laws we have broken the whole law.

    The only way the Bible says we can fulfill the law is to love. There is no other way.
    I have no idea how someone can love and sin at the same time. As Jesus said love does no harm to our neighbor.
     
  7. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    It is on Acts 15.

    15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
    15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

    So, there are many uncleaned food for Jews. But this "burden" should not be added to gentile believers. It means if they see a gentile Christian eat pork, they should not blame him.
     
  8. ImaginaryDay

    ImaginaryDay Que?

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    Romans Ch. 14 also comes to mind (which I won't reprint here for sake of space). Paul covers the subject of clean/unclean very nicely and leaves it up to conscience. However, vs. 17-19 seem to be key:
    " For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding". (ESV)
     
  9. tzadik

    tzadik Follower of the Messiah

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    Wait what??
    If you're gonna choose that route...then you'd have to call EVERYTHING that God commands in His Word as a "burden" and "optional".
    How is eating pork different from practicing sorcery?
    Or homosexuality, or lying, or committing adultery, or incest? Weren't these all instructed to God's people in the Tanakh ("OT")?
    Are you telling me that everything that God commands "except" the 4 requirements are a "burden" to poor Gentiles?

    I might be misunderstanding you...so bear with me...
     
  10. tzadik

    tzadik Follower of the Messiah

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    I thought by now everybody would’ve researched this verse, (especially the original language) and discovered that the word telos is NOT end, but goal/sum/totality. Messiah is NOT the end of God’s Word.

    You believe that God made it an obligation for Israel, including His own Son to keep His commandments? As in they were forced to, simply for having “Jewish blood”?
    ---for the sake of this argument—let’s pretend that under the law = you have to obey the law. This would obviously rule out EVERYONE who does not descend from Israel correct?
    How would these verses apply to Gentiles today?
    “Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;”
    “so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.”

    Where?
    1 Corinthians 7:19? Acts 21:24? Acts 21:20? Luke 1:6? 1 John 2? 1 John 3? Romans 10:5? John 14:15? Matthew 5:19?

    Do you believe that the Law of God is the Word of God? If so, try saying it this way..….if one tries to obey God’s Word, they have to obey All of God’s Word. What do you think?

    People do it all the time. How would you tell someone practicing homosexuality or sorcery that he is sinning?
     
  11. Sapphire Dragon

    Sapphire Dragon Truly Loved... as are you.

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    I remember that when He showed Peter the "unclean" meats, He said that everything He made is good. I see this as meaning that all foods, animal or plant, are good to eat (other than humans, of course).

    The unclean laws were abolished when Jesus died for our sins. He was the final sacrifice for us- His new covenant has been established.
     
  12. Sapphire Dragon

    Sapphire Dragon Truly Loved... as are you.

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    Sorry, double post. My college's network is fuzzy right now. Please delete.
     
  13. tzadik

    tzadik Follower of the Messiah

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    the funny and ironic thing is that the Scripture shows that Peter did all BUT eat anything unclean. It had nothing to do with the literal eating of food.

    Peter must've not gotten that memo then eh?

    THink about it...did Messiah die to ABOLISH the Holy Commandments of God the Father?? How absurd does that sound?

    What does the final sacrifice have to do with our "disregard" to God's Instructions?
     
  14. Sapphire Dragon

    Sapphire Dragon Truly Loved... as are you.

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    It doesn't sound absurd at all- God has made plans for us since the beginning of time. We used to be pure, but then we sinned- so things had to change. We were all doomed to hell unless we followed specific Commandments- not one was without sin, so Jesus died in order to bring a new salvation unto us that would save us if we believed in Him and actively tried to follow commandments within a relationship with Him. We all sin, it happens, but with Jesus' sacrifice, we can sincerely ask Him to forgive us and change to never do the sin again. It's a constant walk with Him, no longer is it an ultimatum as it was then. Before, when you sinned God may strike you dead- but with believing in Jesus, there is always another chance with His forgiveness until it is your time to leave earth. The Ten Commandments are all still present in the Commandment Jesus gave- to love God above all and others as yourselves.
     
  15. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    I don't know what are you talking about.

    God tells us that it is not a sin to eat pork. But He does not say other things you mentioned are not sinful. Actually, God clearly says: don't do it.
     
  16. xAmadeusx

    xAmadeusx Newbie

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    Jesus broke the law constantly, his existence makes the idea of the OT laws obsolete.
     
  17. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    Yup, that's a valid translation of the Greek and so is end. But lets go with yours. So Jesus is the goal of the law. Or as Jesus said He fulfilled the law. Now we know that we can't fulfill the law. The law is against us as Paul says. And by the law shall none be righteous. As I said before, Paul says 6 times we aren't under the law. Because Jesus was the sum/goal of the law. Once the goal is scored, the game if over.

    Rom.9 That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works

    So are we going to do what the Galations did and and seek to work our own salvation. Paul says righteousness doesn't arrive by the law but by faith. Gal.3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." So the Bible is clear we can't obey the law. Noneone is righteous before God. If we try to be, we will fail and be cursed.
     
  18. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    Thought I'd check out a few of your verses:
    Got to love all the fonts one gets getting verse from different sites! lol
    p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } Where?
    1 Corinthians 7:19?



    19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. -- So was anyone circumcised and therefore righteous? Or is the only way one can be righteous thru Jesus?


    Acts 21:24? 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. --- So are do you keep all the purification rites? All the washings required by the law? If not you are breaking the law.




    Acts 21:20? 20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. – Nice verse, being zealous for the law to believe.


    Romans 10:5? For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. -- Ya, what did Paul just get done saying? Israel failed to obey the law. Rom.9 Jesus is the only one who fulfilled the law. So you want to set people up to fail. Is anyone more jealous to obey the law than the Pharisees in Jesus’ day?


    John 14:15? “If you love me, keep my commands. Don’t you read in context? 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”


    Matthew 5:19? Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. … Yup, very good verses. Again read the context. Do no murder, do not commit adultery, do not break your oath. .. very good examples of not loving ones neighbor.


     
  19. WinBySurrender

    WinBySurrender New Member

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    God didn't. Peter did.
     
  20. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    Jesus broke the law constantly in appearance. In fact, He did not break any one. It is the Pharisees who made up all the details of their laws.
     
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