Can 'Christians' be members of SECRET societies?

[timewerx]

If God keeps secrets and the power of the occult lies in secrecy by your logic God is of the occult. That is blasphemous and false. The truth is secrets are a very natural and real part of God's creation.

The methods are similar but God's will always represent its own nature.

The evil version hides behind something else, usually something opposite its nature.

I cannot be more detailed than that because it's forbidden to discuss here in CF.

Based on your own beliefs you do not hold to the normal Christian faith. You reject large portions of the Bible and only rely on a small portion for your beliefs. Ergo you reject the parts you want to. This being the case I reject your opinion and thoughts regarding what is and is not permissible according to God. Your faith is completely outside of orthodox Christianity.

DUH! Welcome to the Controversial Beliefs Section of CF, in case you haven't noticed!

I have strong reasons for believing what I believe.

- First, it's logical, I don't have to have blind faith in order to believe it. I could reason with it with open eyes...
- Second, since I adopted the belief, I am no longer getting sick. I could walk through a room fool of sick people, eat with their spoons and come out unscratched...
- Third, I have learned to consistently repel evil spirits - the kind that possesses people, stuff of nightmares.
- Fourth, I receive guidance 24/7

I have a quite a unique set of beliefs. Many of its concepts are my own. Only other person I know who went the same path is Vincent Van Gogh. But he left unfinished. But now in the information age, I'll have better chances. The climax is about to be reached due to the information age.

 

[americanvet]

I have strong reasons for believing what I believe.

As do I. Please feel free to send me a PM about what you can't post here. I will keep it private.

 

[Albion]

You are refuting a claim against Freemasonry and you are absolutely sure of it.

That's right.

Many rituals of Freemasonry are outright prayers and does not address Christ.

I don't think that idea can be sustained unless you consider any reference to life after death or God to be a "prayer." I don't think most people would consider that to be the correct definition of prayer, nor do I.

However, this is not the place to discuss this, and since you are apparently determined to discuss Masonry rather than Secret Societies, I'll ask you to start up a thread about it on the forum to which such discussions have been assigned by CF...and that would be "Philosophy." Let me know.

 

[timewerx]

I don't think that idea can be sustained unless you consider any reference to life after death or God to be a "prayer." I don't think most people would consider that to be the correct definition of prayer, nor do I.

However, this is not the place to discuss this, and since you are apparently determined to discuss Masonry rather than Secret Societies, I'll ask you to start up a thread about it on the forum to which such discussions have been assigned by CF...and that would be "Philosophy." Let me know.

I think we have reached conclusion on important points, no need for new thread.

When it comes down to it, it's always up to the individual to decide and the set of beliefs he or she will accept.

 

[timewerx]

As do I. Please feel free to send me a PM about what you can't post here. I will keep it private.

I don't think I can discuss it on PM either. I'm very sorry.

If you seek hard enough, you'll eventually figure it out.

 

[Imagican]

i would offer that the only reason that I can discern anyone would create or join a 'secret society' is for the sake of practicing something that the general population would disapprove of. No other REASON that I can discern to have a SECRET Society. For a 'secret' is nothing other than keeping information separate from others. And if that information were not questionable, there would be no reason to keep it a secret. Other than GREED. if the secret were of any true BENEFIT to others, then it would be GREED or selfishness that would lead those that possessed this secret from sharing it with others.
Either way, I can see NO WAY that such a secret society could bring any significant GLORY to God. Especially considering that the society accepts members who follow ANY God.
You know, Lucifer is considered GOD by those that worship him. We also know that Mammon is GOD to those that worship WEALTH.
So with this in mind, it would seem obvious that a Satanist or one worshiping wealth would be openly welcomed to become a Mason if the rest of their credentials were acceptable.
Yet the Bible tells us that are TRUE followers not to even sit and EAT with those living in SIN. So how could a Mason claim to be following in TRUTH if they are involved in a GROUP that has members that worship OTHER gods?
Justification, or the ATTEMPT to justify doesn't alter the TRUTH except in the mind or heart of one ATTEMPTING to find justification.
And it is my experience that those that attempt to find justification are most often those that KNOW they are WRONG in their interpretations or are intentionally willing to DO that which they KNOW is wrong yet not willing to openly admit it. ALL too often we see those professing to be followers continuing to cling to their favorite sins and then trying to justify it rather than admit it.
The FIRST step in CHANGE is admitting that there is a NEED for change. Most would rather attempt to justify than TRULY 'change'.
Blessings,
MEC

 

[Albion]

i would offer that the only reason that I can discern anyone would create or join a 'secret society' is for the sake of practicing something that the general population would disapprove of. No other REASON that I can discern to have a SECRET Society.

Let's let it go at that, then. You can't imagine why anyone would join a secret society.

Fine. We believe you. Of course, it doesn't do a thing for the discussion here about whether or not doing so conflicts with anyone's Christian faith. Lots of guesses have been made by people who wouldn't join one themselves, but until we examine an actual secret society and have actual facts, and discuss what might be wrong with it, we have accomplished zip, all the speculation aside.

 

[timewerx]

Let's let it go at that, then. You can't imagine why anyone would join a secret society.

Fine. We believe you. Of course, it doesn't do a thing for the discussion here about whether or not doing so conflicts with anyone's Christian faith. Lots of guesses have been made by people who wouldn't join one themselves, but until we examine an actual secret society and have actual facts, and discuss what might be wrong with it, we have accomplished zip, all the speculation aside.

We can make one up as an example:

Let's say a perfectly Christian-compatible secret society (without any rituals or symbols) existed who had the noble goal of deeper studies of human nature for the common good and basically kept their activities secret..

I would still advice against joining such group. Because ironically, with the suggestibility of people's minds, the goal of such society cannot be achieved. Although they may be Godly and not evil, they could still be detrimental to individuals who has the potential to be so....

It's a paradox of the human mind. Such groups with noble intentions could end up destroying their goals themselves despite having good intentions.

I think the time for the Children of God to congregate has not yet come. Today is for testing. It is not yet time.

 

[americanvet]

Yet the Bible tells us that are TRUE followers not to even sit and EAT with those living in SIN.

Mark 2:13-17
13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

It seems the Bible disagrees with you.

 

[Albion]

We can make one up as an example:

Let's say a perfectly Christian-compatible secret society (without any rituals or symbols) existed who had the noble goal of deeper studies of human nature for the common good and basically kept their activities secret..

I would still advice against joining such group. Because ironically, with the suggestibility of people's minds, the goal of such society cannot be achieved. Although they may be Godly and not evil, they could still be detrimental to individuals who has the potential to be so....

But that advice would be applicable to almost any social, fraternal, or civic organization--any association that has some goals or purpose for existing. There's no need for it to be a secret society.

 

[Berean777]

...

 

[Imagican]

I believe that most can clearly see that there is only ONE reason that men would form a SECRET society: to keep others from KNOWING their AGENDA. And I can think of no other reason to HIDE one's agenda than it being contrary to what most would be willing to accept. Christ offered His message openly and freely. He did not HIDE His agenda nor insist that others KEEP IT SECRET. He did ask some that He healed NOT to reveal the source,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YET. But when it was TIME, He TOLD those that He healed to reveal the TRUTH.
I have found no evidence that God has EVER created a 'secret society'. No evidence that He has EVER encouraged such. So if the inspiration is NOT 'of God', then where would such inspiration COME FROM?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[fat wee robin]

Mark 2:13-17
13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

It seems the Bible disagrees with you.

I think you mean Jesus disagrees with Paul . When in doubt look to God ,not his servant , as too many, do .

 

[fat wee robin]

The methods are similar but God's will always represent its own nature.

The evil version hides behind something else, usually something opposite its nature.

I cannot be more detailed than that because it's forbidden to discuss here in CF.

DUH! Welcome to the Controversial Beliefs Section of CF, in case you haven't noticed!


I have strong reasons for believing what I believe.

- First, it's logical, I don't have to have blind faith in order to believe it. I could reason with it with open eyes...
- Second, since I adopted the belief, I am no longer getting sick. I could walk through a room fool of sick people, eat with their spoons and come out unscratched...
- Third, I have learned to consistently repel evil spirits - the kind that possesses people, stuff of nightmares.
- Fourth, I receive guidance 24/7

I have a quite a unique set of beliefs. Many of its concepts are my own. Only other person I know who went the same path is Vincent Van Gogh. But he left unfinished. But now in the information age, I'll have better chances. The climax is about to be reached due to the information age.

So you have the talent of a Vincent Van Goch, or his Madness ?

 

[Albion]

I believe that most can clearly see that there is only ONE reason that men would form a SECRET society: to keep others from KNOWING their AGENDA.

That doesn't follow logically. There are all sorts of reasons and kinds of secrets, not just your conclusion ("their AGENDA").

And I can think of no other reason to HIDE one's agenda than it being contrary to what most would be willing to accept. Christ offered His message openly and freely. He did not HIDE His agenda nor insist that others KEEP IT SECRET. He did ask some that He healed NOT to reveal the source,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YET. But when it was TIME, He TOLD those that He healed to reveal the TRUTH.

...which means that he told them to keep a secret.

I have found no evidence that God has EVER created a 'secret society'. No evidence that He has EVER encouraged such. So if the inspiration is NOT 'of God', then where would such inspiration COME FROM?

I can find no place in scripture where God encouraged anyone to build a television set, either. Do you think this proves that TV sets must be of...SATAN? (with apologies to the Church Lady for stealing her line)

 

[fat wee robin]

I believe that most can clearly see that there is only ONE reason that men would form a SECRET society: to keep others from KNOWING their AGENDA. And I can think of no other reason to HIDE one's agenda than it being contrary to what most would be willing to accept. Christ offered His message openly and freely. He did not HIDE His agenda nor insist that others KEEP IT SECRET. He did ask some that He healed NOT to reveal the source,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YET. But when it was TIME, He TOLD those that He healed to reveal the TRUTH.
I have found no evidence that God has EVER created a 'secret society'. No evidence that He has EVER encouraged such. So if the inspiration is NOT 'of God', then where would such inspiration COME FROM?

Blessings,

MEC

You are correct in that a secret society means that it is set up deliberately to use information which it keeps for it's members only and usually only for those who have proven that they will follow blindly and without question the secret purposes,but temporary secrets are part of every day life.From keeping things from children to protect them ,from designing something and keeping it 'secret ' until it's patented ,
to national security and personal too .I could put myself in danger by revealing the number for my alarm system to a dangerous person ,and so on .The purpose of keeping a secret must be considered .Is it to plot against others ,or God's people ,to allow you do be dishonest and progress without taking the honest harder route etc.?

You could say that if it's to protect you against evil ,it might be good ,and if it is to do evil against God, or other human society it is bad .

 

[Albion]

You are correct in that a secret society means that it is set up deliberately to use information which it keeps for it's members only and usually only for those who have proven that they will follow blindly and without question

That's quite an assumption when you think about it? And that's all it is--an assumption.

 

[timewerx]

So you have the talent of a Vincent Van Goch, or his Madness ?

He had no choice.

“I shouldn't precisely have chosen madness if there had been any choice, but once such a thing has taken hold of you, you can't very well get out of it.”

― Vincent van Gogh


If Vincent was alive today, he would have been a Christian Missionary. Once he tried, even lived among the poor as in a Christian outreach of his own but he was reprimanded by his church. He had serious thoughts for having a lifelong career in the church, but even his church did not accept him.

Because of it, he became an non-Orthodox Christian and eventually, a "mad artist". But from me, he actually reminds of Apostle Paul. From Vincent's letters and Paul's letters, the two share many things in common in how they think.

 

[Albion]

After all is said and done, isn't what matters what secrets are being kept? After all, a priest keeps the secrets of the confessional to himself, lawyers, teachers, and doctors respect client confidentiality, and the military keep their codes secret from the enemy, etc. -- and no one starts talking like this is somehow immoral.

 

[fat wee robin]

He had no choice.

“I shouldn't precisely have chosen madness if there had been any choice, but once such a thing has taken hold of you, you can't very well get out of it.”

― Vincent van Gogh


If Vincent was alive today, he would have been a Christian Missionary. Once he tried, even lived among the poor as in a Christian outreach of his own but he was reprimanded by his church. He had serious thoughts for having a lifelong career in the church, but even his church did not accept him.

Because of it, he became an non-Orthodox Christian and eventually, a "mad artist". But from me, he actually reminds of Apostle Paul. From Vincent's letters and Paul's letters, the two share many things in common in how they think.

Thankyou . Interesting information about someone who would have been too sensitive, too ahead of his time .