Can Christians be Demonized?

[lismore]

Haven't you seen the movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose?!

Movies are scriptural evidence?

havent you seen the movie about the giant rabbit that talks to a disturbed teenager?

Does this mean christians can talk to giant rabbits?

 

[luvinjesus111]

How about 1 John 4v4 You are of God little children and have overcame them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[Discipleship]

Movies are scriptural evidence?

havent you seen the movie about the giant rabbit that talks to a disturbed teenager?

Does this mean christians can talk to giant rabbits?

No they're not. And no, I honeslty have no clue what you are talking about.

I think you need to lighten up a little bit. Did you fail to see the huge smiley face that was smiling and laughing? This was meant to be a joke to ease the tension here.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

I have read that Mother Theresa became possessed by demons. Its been argued that demons pursue the righteous and pure in heart more than anyone else.

Now that part is abbolutely true! He goes after them the most because they are trying to live holy.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

http://www.equip.org/free/DD075.pdf


Would love to know your thoughts on this

I don't believe true Christians can be possessed, but they can definately be oppressed by evil spirits that influence them from the outside. What that article describes is someone oppressed by an evil spirit that doesn't wnat him withnessing to sinners. The devil is always busy trying to oppress and torment Christians, but as far a a real Christian being possessed by devils like the ones Jesus casted out of people, that's not possible because either God dwells within the person or the evil spirits do, I don't think Jesus will cohabit inside a person with evil spirits. Once God gets in, the person automatically gets exorcised. Evil spirits get kicked out when God enters a person's heart. But evil spirits can attach themselves to a person on the outside, like an assignment from the devil designed to bring the person down.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Another question:

If a person gets demonized, are they a Christian?

Yeah they're still a Christian. Even Jesus was tempted by the devil and even taken up to a high place by the devil to show Him the world and told Him all of it can be His if He just bows down to him(the devil). So even Jesus was tempted and taken somewhere by the devil. So Christians can be influenced by evil spirits. Of course Jesus stoood up to the devil and overcame the temptations so He wasn't opressed or anything, but the potential was there if Jesus had not stood up to him. That guy in the article did not stand up to those evil spirits scaring him about witnessing to others, so he became oppressed by that fear.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

I don't believe that a christian can be possessed for the simple reason that light and dark don't mix. I do, however, believe that Christians can be deceived and tormented in the physical sense.

Yup, I agree. Evil spirits can oppress from the outside but not actually dwell within the person's heart if God is truely inside the person. Just like the verse which says "Greater is He that is within me than he that is in the world. " If God is in there, the devil gets kicked out.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

I'm going to copy/paste my post from a different thread:

To jump into this debate ....

Just two points here...

1. Jesus turned to Peter a disciple and said "Get thee behind me, Satan". So was Jesus speaking just to Peter, or to a demonic influence speaking through Peter?

2. In the gospels, Jesus never cast devils out of anyone until they first came to him. When one comes to Christ, falls down at his feet and calls Him, "Lord"-- does that make someone a Christian (If you believe in your heart... and confess with your mouth...)? It can easily be argued from the gospels that Jesus ONLY cast demons out of believers.

Hey there, happy birthday! You make good points, yes, Peter was being influenced from the outside by an evil spirit and Jesus recognized that. Also Jesus cast devils out of someone who is willing to allow God to dwell within them. When a person allows God inside, they become esxorcised just from that act alone. So the person became saved when they allowed God into their heart. That's why Jesus was able to send the evil spirits away. The people who came to fall at His feet got saved the moment they did that then Jesus sent the evil spirits away.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

I think the problem comes with people confusing the words "demonized" and "possessed". As Derek Prince points out in his ministry, no one is really "demonized" or "possesed", as in this would symbolize complete control by the adversary. Christians can have evil spirits in them, and this does not mean they are "possesed", but rather influenced. Odds are that you know someone (and probably more than one person) who is a Christian and has at least one evil spirit in them. One of my very close believer friend, who has been walking with God for a very long time now, was delievered from an evil spirit randomly one day when God told him that he needed to forgive a certain person. I can think of many other examples too. Derek Prince's ministry (and Neil Anderson's too) are based on delivering Christians from evil spirits, so it is very much possible. I used to know of a video online of a pastor who would cast demons out of members of his church, and other Christians who would come to see him, but I can't find it anymore or I would post the link for you.

God Bless

I agree with everything you said, I'm just not sure if the evil spirit is in them or attached to them. Getting delivered from a spirit attached to a person can seem like they got delivered form something inside of them. But I definately believe Christians can have evil spirits attached to them that they need deliverence from. I think some think of it in an interchangable way. Attached to some is the same as inside, but a true possession like someone said is when the person has no control over what they do. Period. Like serial killers and crazy perverts. I believe those types are possessed. If you ever read up on any of them, a lot of the sicko crazies like that say that what they do repulses them but they cannot stop themselves, and psychologists cannot rehabilitate them. That is a modern day devil possession. If a person can resist at least some of the time, then it's not a possession.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

If a person has a Demon in his body, that Demon is possessing that man's body and that man is possessed. Everyday demonic influence comes from outside the body. I witenssed a young man who was possessed. I was at a healing service of Billy Burke. A yound man, who still had his Pep Boys uniform on, came in off of the street to the service. Billy saw him and walked over to him and said: "You don't look like you belong here.". The young man said that he was walking home from work and something told him to come into the sanctuary. Billy asked him if he wanted to be saved and he said "yes". Billy them lead him in a Sinners Prayer and laid his hands on him. The young man immediately went down and started writhing on the floor. Billy knew something was wrong, for he shouted: "COME OUT OF HIM IN THE NAME OF JESUS". Two demons came out of his mouth and each time a demon came out, the men let out a scream. When the young man stood up, he looked different. There was a peaceful, tranquil look on his face. The entire congregation let out a cheer and welcomed him into their outstretched arms. It was a most incredible experience.

Exactly!! A possession is totally different from being oppressed or influenced by evil spirits. Someone possessed will tend to give even sinners a creepy crawly feeling, makes your skin crawl, you just know something is not right almost by instinct. I've seen some people I thought might be possessed and even sinners I know said the person gave them the willies and creepy crawlies. Possession is different from being influenced by or oppressed by evil spirits. Yes those evil spirits hate to come out and usually fight like that when being exorcised out of someone.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Is the definition of possession one of owning something? I've heard that possession is 9/10 of the law. If you possess something then you own it, even if it's only temporarily. If a demon possesses someone, then are they in ownership of their soul and spirit? When one comes to Christ, they agree on the purchase price of themselves. Jesus bought us with a price. We render our ownership of ourselves over to Him. I'm reminded of the analogy of master/slave relationships. The slave is owned by the master. Paul says I am a slave to righteousness, thus he is owned by the Lord who bought him at a price. So, a believer who has been bought with a price (Christ's shed blood), has become a slave (or servant) of righteousness. We are owned by the Lord, for he has possession of us. How then can a demon, or Satan, possess a believer if we are owned by God?

I don't mean to ramble. Am I making sense here?

That's a very good way of putting it! Yes that's why I say when someone has a spirit attached to them or they are oppressed by an evil spirit, some may think of that as the evil spirit being inside of them, but I think it's attached to them, true possession means the person has no control over themselves and like you said, implies ownership. If you are truely saved then God owns you and the person cannot be possesed.

 

[lismore]

No they're not. And no, I honeslty have no clue what you are talking about.

I think you need to lighten up a little bit. Did you fail to see the huge smiley face that was smiling and laughing? This was meant to be a joke to ease the tension here.

Oh it was a joke

Didnt get it!

You mentioned a film as being proof Christians can be demon possessed! I didnt get you were joking.

I mentioned Donny Darko talking to an invisible giant rabbit also as a joke- movies doesnt mean reality.

I dont think a Christian can be possessed, oppressed yes, possessed no!

 

[GodismyRefuge]

There is a 'belief', I personally do not accept, that the Christian can be 'inhabited' by demons in their soul; mind and emotions, and body. The demons would be in need of being 'cast out' Any thoughts?

 

[mortsmune]

Once God gets in, the person automatically gets exorcised. Evil spirits get kicked out when God enters a person's heart. But evil spirits can attach themselves to a person on the outside, like an assignment from the devil designed to bring the person down.

Two problems with this statement:
1. The Bible does not say this anywhere. The Bible also does not say that demons cannot be in Christians. This is an assumption.
2. Jesus commanded His followers to cast out demons in His name. If evil spirits automatically "get kicked out when God enters a person's heart," then why would Jesus tell us to cast them out if all we have to do is get people saved and the demons automatically leave?

 

[Godzchild]

You don't think that one would cast out a demon out of someone who DOESN'T have the spirit of Christ in them?

Must I quote the scripture about the evil one not touching his children again?

 

[Questioning Christian]

There's too much talk and psychological reasoning in this debate.

The Greater One dwells in you.
You have nothing to be afraid of.
Satan may be temporarily assailing you, but you win.
God rules over all.
The sword of the Spirit is the word of God.
Do not yield to unrighteousness.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God!

5 of the 6 weapons are DEFENSIVE!

If you walk in peace, cover your heart with righteousness, protect your mind with His salvation, hide behind faith as a shield, and tie the whole armor together with truth, then Satan cannot touch you.

Only at certain times are you to go on the offensive with the sword. If most of the armor is for defense, then most of your warfare is peacekeeping, not trying to find every devil under every tree. Having done all, to stand ... stand therefore! Satan loves it when we spend all this time talking about him. But I say, this warfare is not about Satan! It is about Christ.

People freak out when they read the Book of Revelation. But the book is a book of victory in Christ.

Our warfare is not for us to say we have warfare. Our warfare is to give us hope and a winning mindset, and to show us how to survive.

 

[mortsmune]

You don't think that one would cast out a demon out of someone who DOESN'T have the spirit of Christ in them?

Must I quote the scripture about the evil one not touching his children again?

I have not been able to find your post where you quoted that verse. I believe, however, that it is this one:1Jo 5:18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. "

I am not sure what you mean in your question. However, regarding casting demons out of people who do not have the Holy Spirit, Jesus said that if a demon is cast out of someone who is an "empty" house, i.e., the Holy Spirit is not there, then the demon will come back and bring seven more with him, and the person will be worse off than before. So why would anyone want to cast a demon out of someone who was not saved and make that person worse off?

As far as the scripture you quote, it does say that "that wicked one toucheth him not." However, this verse must be understood in proper context. It is not an absolute statement. Obviously, it cannot mean that the "wicked one" absolutely cannot touch any believer. There are passages in the NT that say otherwise.

Paul said, "Give no place to the devil." This would be meaningless if it were impossible for the devil to "touch us."

In part of the "Lord's Prayer," Jesus tells us that when we pray, we should say, "...and deliver us from the evil one..." Why would Jesus tell us to pray that if there were no reason to be concerned about it?

Paul tells us to "stand against" the enemy. Why would he tell us that if the enemy can't "touch" us?

So what does 1 Jo 5:18 mean? First of all, the word translated touch is the verb haptomai, which has the meanings of to attach oneself to something, to assail, or to cling to something. Second, the verse is talking about something that has qualifications. It says that the one who is begotten by God does not sin and keeps (guards or watches or prevents) himself.

Obviously, we all know that we believers do sometimes sin and don't always "keep" ourselves. Even John says in this same epistle that "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1:8) and "if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His truth is not in us."

In 5:18, he is using a rhetorical device to emphasize his point of how important it is to not sin and to keep ourselves, while at the same time gently causing us to think about ourselves (Oh, man, but I do sin, and I don't always keep myself!).

Actually, this is a warning that keeping the evil one from "attaching himself" to us is a good reason to be more diligent about how we live our lives. To paraphrase what he is saying, if I may be so bold, he is saying something like: "As one who is born from God, you had better be careful and keep yourself from sinning if you want to keep the devil from attaching himself to you!"

He further goes on to emphasize his point in the next verse by saying: "We know that we are from God and that the entire world lies under the control of the evil one." That is even more of a motivation to "keep" ourselves and to not sin.

 

[mortsmune]

There's too much talk and psychological reasoning in this debate.

The Greater One dwells in you.
You have nothing to be afraid of.
Satan may be temporarily assailing you, but you win.
God rules over all.
The sword of the Spirit is the word of God.
Do not yield to unrighteousness.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God!

5 of the 6 weapons are DEFENSIVE!

You are correct about the defense issue. However, that is only with regard to our own lives. The armor mentioned in Eph 6 is for protecting our own selves. When it comes to ministering to others to "set the captives free," then it becomes an OFFENSIVE issue.

If you walk in peace, cover your heart with righteousness, protect your mind with His salvation, hide behind faith as a shield, and tie the whole armor together with truth, then Satan cannot touch you.

That is a very big IF! What about all those times when we DON'T do that?

Only at certain times are you to go on the offensive with the sword.

Yes, when we are ministering to one another and to the lost!

If most of the armor is for defense, then most of your warfare is peacekeeping, not trying to find every devil under every tree.

I don't know about "every tree," but certainly we should be concerned about every devil in every person who needs and wants to be set free! To not do so is to be disobedient to the mandate of Christ Himself:

"He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound."

Having done all, to stand ... stand therefore! Satan loves it when we spend all this time talking about him.

How do you know this? Did he tell you? Or do you believe that because you have heard it so many times? The greatest weapons the enemy has against us are our ignorance, our fear, and his secrecy. He does not love us talking about him when we are exposing his ways and talking about defeating his kingdom. What would have happened in WWII if the generals of the Allied Forces had taken that attitude? What if they had said, "We shouldn't be talking about the enemy. Let's just talk about us and being victorious. We shouldn't be looking for every Nazi soldier under every tree and behind every rock"?

But I say, this warfare is not about Satan! It is about Christ.

I must disagree. Warfare is ALL about the enemy. If there were no enemy, there would be no warfare. Yes, our lives are about Christ and all He has done for us, but our warfare is about the enemy in the same way that in WWII, the life of America and her Allies was about democracy and freedom. But WWII was about defeating the enemy so that we could enjoy democracy and freedom.

People freak out when they read the Book of Revelation. But the book is a book of victory in Christ.

Our warfare is not for us to say we have warfare. Our warfare is to give us hope and a winning mindset, and to show us how to survive.

The victory in Christ in the Book of Revelation does not come until after the greatest war in history and after the enemy is cast into the lake of fire.

Our warfare is about being free and setting others free. That is what "defensive" war is all about.

 

[Godzchild]

I have not been able to find your post where you quoted that verse. I believe, however, that it is this one:1Jo 5:18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. "

Yes that's the one!

I am not sure what you mean in your question. However, regarding casting demons out of people who do not have the Holy Spirit, Jesus said that if a demon is cast out of someone who is an "empty" house, i.e., the Holy Spirit is not there, then the demon will come back and bring seven more with him, and the person will be worse off than before. So why would anyone want to cast a demon out of someone who was not saved and make that person worse off?

I have no idea, but I cannot subscribe the notion that God's children can be touched by the wicked one.

As far as the scripture you quote, it does say that "that wicked one toucheth him not." However, this verse must be understood in proper context. It is not an absolute statement. Obviously, it cannot mean that the "wicked one" absolutely cannot touch any believer. There are passages in the NT that say otherwise.

Oh come on! Why? Because you don't want it to?

Paul said, "Give no place to the devil." This would be meaningless if it were impossible for the devil to "touch us."

No because as i said before, the devil can influence and tempt us but he cannot possess us. So both scriptures are correct.

In part of the "Lord's Prayer," Jesus tells us that when we pray, we should say, "...and deliver us from the evil one..." Why would Jesus tell us to pray that if there were no reason to be concerned about it?

Do you realise that that was before the HOly Spirit was poured out?

Paul tells us to "stand against" the enemy. Why would he tell us that if the enemy can't "touch" us?

As above. Do you realise the power and authority we have over Demons? If, all we must do is submit to God and the enemy will flee then that kind makes the enemy mighty powerless dont you think? I think people Give the devil more credit than he's worth!

So what does 1 Jo 5:18 mean? First of all, the word translated touch is the verb haptomai, which has the meanings of to attach oneself to something, to assail, or to cling to something. Second, the verse is talking about something that has qualifications. It says that the one who is begotten by God does not sin and keeps (guards or watches or prevents) himself.

Obviously, we all know that we believers do sometimes sin and don't always "keep" ourselves. Even John says in this same epistle that "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1:8) and "if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His truth is not in us."

Yes and you don't think that both those scriptures can harmonise?

In 5:18, he is using a rhetorical device to emphasize his point of how important it is to not sin and to keep ourselves, while at the same time gently causing us to think about ourselves (Oh, man, but I do sin, and I don't always keep myself!).

We shouldn't be keeping ourselves anyway - that's why we sin. If we keep ourselves, we fail and we sin.

Actually, this is a warning that keeping the evil one from "attaching himself" to us is a good reason to be more diligent about how we live our lives. To paraphrase what he is saying, if I may be so bold, he is saying something like: "As one who is born from God, you had better be careful and keep yourself from sinning if you want to keep the devil from attaching himself to you!"

Look I'm not disputing the fact that satan can have influence over the flesh and tempt and deceive us. What I'm saying is that Satan cannot possess or dwell inside a believer. He cannot ATTACH himself - if you will.

He further goes on to emphasize his point in the next verse by saying: "We know that we are from God and that the entire world lies under the control of the evil one." That is even more of a motivation to "keep" ourselves and to not sin.

We are in the world but we are not of the world.

Quite frankly, I appreciate what you're saying but you don't understand the dangers and the implications of what you're saying. Becaus when you start preaching about how powerful Satan is and how we must be careful of him etc etc - you put undue power and credit onto him that doesn't belong there. People who are weak in faith need to know who they are in Christ - not who satan is! People who are weak in faith need for you to tell them "Greater is he that's living in me than he that is in the world". Take note how often the bible warns us of the devil himself - not very often!! You will notice that God puts more emphasis on His own authority to protect than he does on the Devil. Why give the Devil more credit than he deserves?

 

[Joy]

I'm sorry but i 100% agree with our brother.
Yes Christians do need to know who they are in Christ but often people have been wounded by many things and are unable to be free in Christ even they want to be. Why do christians backslide? because there are areas in their lives where they have been oppressed, and need to be set free from various things which hinder their walk with the Lord. Did Luke 4:18 only apply to the earthly ministry of Jesus.