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Can Christians be Demonized?

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by GodismyRefuge, Sep 27, 2005.

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  1. Jesusong

    Jesusong Veteran

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    Is the definition of possession one of owning something? I've heard that possession is 9/10 of the law. If you possess something then you own it, even if it's only temporarily. If a demon possesses someone, then are they in ownership of their soul and spirit? When one comes to Christ, they agree on the purchase price of themselves. Jesus bought us with a price. We render our ownership of ourselves over to Him. I'm reminded of the analogy of master/slave relationships. The slave is owned by the master. Paul says I am a slave to righteousness, thus he is owned by the Lord who bought him at a price. So, a believer who has been bought with a price (Christ's shed blood), has become a slave (or servant) of righteousness. We are owned by the Lord, for he has possession of us. How then can a demon, or Satan, possess a believer if we are owned by God?

    I don't mean to ramble. Am I making sense here?
     
  2. lismore

    lismore Legend

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    I think people are always going to disagree on whether a Christians can be demonized, depending on their experiences.

    Would a worthwhile topic not be how to shake the demonic off a believer's life?

    :angel:
     
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  3. Godzchild

    Godzchild New Member

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    There's one thing that people are missing here - the Holy Spirit would not take residence with an evil one! Light and dark cannot mix!!!

    End of Story! Whatever it is that people 'have' is not an evil spirit inside them so you're just going to have to think of something else - because God will not live with an evil spirit.
     
  4. Father Rick

    Father Rick Old Catholic Priest

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    Godzchild...

    While this sounds good in theory, unfortunately it's not supported by scripture. In fact, scripture gives us just the opposite.

    Remember in Job, when Satan stood before the throne of God and discussed Job? Apparently, Satan can be in the presence of God.

    Also, if God is truly omnipresent, as scripture teaches, then it doesn't matter where the demon is God is there also. If what you are saying is true, then demons couldn't exist at all--since there is nowhere they could go to be away from God. Or, if you are correct that 'God will not live with an evil spirit', then does God withdraw Himself from certain areas and therefore is no longer omnipresent?

    Now, it's true that light and darkness cannot mix-- however, have you ever lit a candle in a very dark room? Was part of the room light and part of it still in darkness? The more light you have in the room, the more the darkness is driven out. Even in a very bright room, is it possible to have darkness in a hidden area (like under a bed or in a cabinet) even though the light is very bright?

    That's very much the way it is with a Christian. When we come to Christ, the doors of bondage are opened-- but most Christians don't automatically know how to walk in total liberty. Rather, they start a journey of learning how to walk in the freedom purchased for us by Christ. And those areas of our life where God's truth has not yet been applied may still be in 'darkness'. Also, those areas that we try to keep hidden and not deal with may be 'dark' areas. The more of His truth we apply to our lives, the more 'light' we walk in.

    Yes, light does drive out darkness-- but both may exist room.
     
  5. Zacharias

    Zacharias זכריה

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    Can the Holy Spirit dwell with sin? Yes He can. Light and dark can dwell in one person. :)
     
  6. Hisgirl

    Hisgirl Loved into Heaven by a Violent Act of Grace

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    The question I would have to ask is...have you or any other Christians ever been caught up in a stronghold of sin? If we say darkness can't dwell with light, then what are we saying is rooted behind that sin? We are told in James 1:13

    Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

    So the Holy Spirit isn't providing the temptation of that sin...we we eat that fruit again and again and again...we risk setting up a root. We are warned in Hebrews 12:15

    lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled

    If I get into sin...and set up a root...I can trace that root back and it isn't going back to God. Nowhere in scripture do I see where we are guarded from getting ensnared by satan. But I see time and time again where we are warned to avoid it...
     
  7. Lpe04

    Lpe04 Senior Member

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    Godzchild, Father Rick is correct and has a very good answer to what you are saying. We have been purchased by the Lord, so techincally the devil has no authority over a believer, but that is only if a believer stands on that authority.

    Another thing, true light dispels darkness, but not all Christians walk in the light, or in the Truth. The more Truth and light you can shed in your life, the more you will walk in freedom. This comes from putting on the Truth of God's Word and what He says about you, and walking in the light (fellowshiping with God, staying away from sin, doing God's Will, etc.) As Neil Anderson says about his battle with the adversary in Christians lives, it is a "Truth" struggle. The more Truth and light someone receives from God's Word and promises, the more that person is freed from the darkness.

    To think that a Christian is totally freed from the adversary in this life when he accepts Christ, is just another lie from the devil (the father of lies). In actually, this is usually when the battle begins as the devil "roams around like a lion seeking those to devour." (1 Pet. 5:8, and Peter was speaking to Christians when he wrote this)

    God Bless
     
  8. JimB

    JimB Legend

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    … because the phrase demon-possession is not in the original text of the Bible. Hence, no one can be demon “possessed”. It is a misleading phrase that was compounded by the KJV.

    I first heard the phrase “demonization” at a Vineyard conference back in the mid-80s and instantly saw the wisdom of its teaching.

    However, I am not surprised the webpage mentioned in the OP finds fault with this subject. It is, after all, the website of Hank Hanegraaf, a member of the Costa Mesa Calvary Chapel, who has yet to find anything good to say about the Vineyard. It is almost like, if the Vineyard believes it is, therefore automatically wrong. It is at least in HH’s estimation. Apparently he works off of a serious anti-Vineyard bias (among his other biases). So I do not put a lot of stock in anything I read from equip.org.

    Note: I am really amazed and dismayed at the prejudice far too many in the Calvary Chapel movement have against the Vineyard and can only imagine that it stems back to Wimber’s and several other CC pastor’s desertion from the fellowship in the late 70’s-early 80’s. IMO, That’s a long time to hold a grudge, but HH seems to do it with finesse.

    The doctrine teaches that the word/phrase “demon possession” is not found in the original language of the Bible. The verb translated by the phrase “possessed by a devil” (which is found 11 times in the KJV) is, in the original language a single word, daimonizomai (Strong), sometimes transliterated “demonize”. The KJV mis-translated it by adding the unnecessary and misleading word “possessed” - sometimes “vexed” by a devil or “had” a devil) to the word demon. According to Strong, daimonizoma means “to be under the power of a demon.” But nowhere, in the original, does it ever indicate that a demon actually takes up residence in – that is, inhabits - a person, although an inference can be made which was propagated by the unfortunate mistranslation in the KJV (as well as some other translations) unhappily supports.

    This gives the erroneous idea that demons take up residence inside a persons body, which is not at all supported by the original language of the NT. What is clear, however, is that people, including Christians, can be demonized – that is to say, acted upon by be under the power of, a demon (see Luke 22.31; 1 Thess. 3.5; 1 John 2.13; etc.).

    ~Jim
     
  9. Trish1947

    Trish1947 Free to Believe

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    There is no chance of a born again believer, that has had his old dead spiritual nature removed, and replaced with the Spirit of Christ, to be demon possessed. Guess who would win that battle? After a person is born again, or even filled with the Holy Spirit, it has been known to be experiancing some demonic activity, either in dreams, or a feeling of a opression, or sometimes an actual manifestation of some sort. I believe that after you become born again, you now are something that never existed before, a curiosity to them. They are now curious what you are.. once you realize who you are, and take authority over them, they don't hang around long. They found out who you are, and they are afraid of you. I believe they are the same ones that hung around you before you were born again. and you just weren't aware of them..they just don't recognize you any longer, and become confused.
     
  10. Lpe04

    Lpe04 Senior Member

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    Well, this is only one of many stories I could share about believers having an evil spirit in them, but a couple of years ago a fellow believer became very sick one day. One of the believers from my fellowship (Alan) was prompted by God to go visit the woman and her husband that night, and when he got there the husband looked very worried and explained that his wife had been very sick that whole day. So Alan went into the bedroom she was laying down on and put his hand on her and said that she was deathly cold although she was sweating profusly (and said it looked like someone had poured about 5 gallons of water on top of her). He asked God what was wrong and God said she had a spirit of infirmity in her and told Alan to cast it out. Alan commanded the spirit to leave in the name of Jesus Christ and he said that the woman shot up in the bed and seemed to suck in all the air in the room and then collapsed on the bed. God told him not to worry and just to tell the husband to give her plenty of water to rehydrate her.

    About a week later Alan found out how the demon had gotten into her. When she was little, one day she had a fever and her mother had put her in a tub full of ice for about 3 days. Since then everytime she had a headache, she would worry immensly. That day she had started to get a bad headache and was worrying about out. So in essence, satan had a backdoor into this woman, an area where she had fear and was not trusting God.

    As I have said this is only one case out of many I could tell, and Derek Prince and Neil Anderson have entire ministries with an emphasis on delivering born again believers from evil spirits (so I don't think you can say that they have wasted their entire ministries on something that isn't possible).

    God Bless
     
  11. JimB

    JimB Legend

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    Trish, no one can be demon “possessed" because there is no such thing as demon possession (see my previous post).

    The word “possessed” does not appear with the word "demon/devil" in the original language of the Bible – look it up - but was added by translators who should have translated (or transliterated) it “demonized” or as Strong defines it, “to be under the power of a demon.” Anyone can be demonized, including Christians (see Luke 22.31; 1 Thess. 3.5; 1 John 2.13; etc.). There may be different degrees of demonization but no one is immune from it.

    ~Jim

     
  12. Lpe04

    Lpe04 Senior Member

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    You are correct Jim, Derek Prince did a study on this once and wrote exactly what you are saying. Christians do not become "possesed" which would mean loss of all control and possesion, but they can become demonized.
     
  13. Jesusong

    Jesusong Veteran

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    Thanks Jim for the lesson. :thumbsup: I'm gonna dig into that a little deeper on my own.
     
  14. Trish1947

    Trish1947 Free to Believe

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    Jim, Im not disputing that a Christian can be influenced by demons, if they give themselves over to it. Or don't realize their authority in Christ.

    But as far as having unclean spirits living in a person..oh, yeah, I've seen them come out of a persons mouth. So there won't be much conviencing me otherwise in this regard.

    Luk 11:24When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

    Luk 11:25And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.

    Luk 11:26Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

    Of coarse this is a parable about what can happen to a person, that has been delivered, and made clean of spirit, and not reborn of the Spirit.

    Wheather the word possession was used or not, Jesus makes it pretty plain, where these unclean spirits go.












     
  15. Lpe04

    Lpe04 Senior Member

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    I always took that parable to mean that if a born again believer does not fill that spot with Truth (God's Word) and "close the door" on the adversary that they had previously had open, then the demon will enter back in and the person will become worse. This is why we as Christians don't just go around casting demons out of people all day long (even though we have the authority to). If the person needs to be delievered and God knows that they will take the correct steps to prevent the demons from entering again and it is His Will, then He will graciously give you revelation to cast that sucker out :)
     
  16. Jesusong

    Jesusong Veteran

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    Why is it that when a demon leaves a person, its always goes out by the mouth?
     
  17. JimB

    JimB Legend

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    Trish, You are so smart. Those scriptures certainly do indicate that a demon can live “inside” a person. And that, to me, would be a very serious level of demonization and is probably where the idea of “possession” came from.

    Thanx.

    ~Jim



     
  18. MadHermit

    MadHermit Regular Member

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    There is little definitive scripture concerning demon possession, however, Trish points out a very good one. Notice also the preceding verses.

    Luke 11:21-22
    21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace.
    22 "But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils.
    (NKJ)

    If a person has the Spirit of God in them, then there is no one stronger who can overcome him.
     
  19. pneuma

    pneuma Junior Member

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    I haven't decided yet on whether Christians can be "demon possessed" I used the quotes to note that while the devil doesn’t own you we all know what it means in that it's being indwelt by a demon. There are some good arguments for both sides. I'm just curious for the proponents who say people cant be "demon possessed" is that there are numerous scriptures that talks about Jesus casting out demons from people who had spirits indwelling in them. Like in the case of the lunatic boy in Mat 17:15. The boy was obviously being thrown in the fire and water by the devil. This seems to be one of the extreme case of being indwelt by a spirit. So the question is asked at what point does a person that is demonically oppressed turn to be indwelt by a demon to the point of physically harming them by making them do crazy things? If there is a point how can one determine the difference in a Christian? If a Christian is exhibiting the same demonic behavior of a sinner who is demonically indwelt do we just assume that oh since Christians cant be indwelt by a demon lets just hold a counseling session for him or her. The argument can be made, well they may not be Christians but after understanding the person has confessed Christ in their life and is trying to have a better relationship with Him... then the whole not a Christian thing can be thrown out. So far I see more arguments that support Christians being indwelt by a demon than not.
     
  20. Celticflame

    Celticflame Guest

    I believe we can be Oppressed but not Poessed. I would like to know what book states that Mother Terassa, who flowed in all 9 Gifts of the Spirit and spoke to Jesus Face to Face was demon possessed.

    I disagree also completely with the comment that the Holy Spirit will not dwell with Darkness. If this was the case, then we would be free from all sickness.
     
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