Calvinism, explained.

[jimmyjimmy]

We are not just lucky names pulled from the hat.

No, we are not.(at least, I'm not). God chose me and set His love upon me before I was born and in spite of knowing that I hated Him.

I'll post this again because I like going round and round in circles.

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" Eph 1:11.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

And therefore...?

According to Paul, what standards will God choose when electing us to eternal life?

Faith? Yes. Works? Yes

Lottery? No

Election happened long, long, long ago. Do you believe God's word, or not?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

To those who by persistence in doing good

Who is it that does good?

 

[Albion]

Giving an account to your Father for your life is not the same as receiving the penalty for your sin/failure to conform to the entire law of God.

You do not have a clue about Calvinism, that much is glaringly obvious.

You are conflating two different situations, and claiming that God choose who to save based on what they do in their lives, making God very much a respecter of persons under your false dogma. And you doing so because you are desperate, because your error has been shown to be error, and you're trying to wiggle out of it.

Since none of us can get through the wall of misinformation, despite our many explanations and attempts to explain where the incorrect assumptions lie, I am unsure now what more can be done. Maybe bringing it down to the simplest terms possible?

 

[Albion]

What does Paul say?

Romans 2
. 6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Yes! The Elect will do that and God will respond as is indicated there. OK?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Since none of us can get through the wall of misinformation, despite our many explanations and attempts to explain where the incorrect assumptions lie, I am unsure now what more can be done.

I agree. When the distorted view of Calvinism is corrected time and time again, yet ignored, we are all just wasting time. I don't mind debating someone who understands my side. And, I don't even mind correcting one's incorrect view of my position, once, twice or three times, but there must literally be 100 ignored corrections in this thread alone! Round and around is tiresome. We are getting nowhere.

 

[Albion]

You said it, Brian!

 

[tulipbee]

That's what Calvinists say.

Here's what the bible says:

Acts 10:34
34Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

Romans 2:11
For God does not show favoritism.

1 Tim 2
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Colossians 3:25
Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person's work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

By defining favoritism the way Arminians do you would think that Jesus would go around healing everyone, raising everyone, and making no distinctions and divisions whatsoever. Or, you would think he would at least give everyone the choice to have their loved ones raised. But the Jesus presented in the Bible is obviously not the Jesus of Arminianism or Universalism. He's a Jesus who chooses to bring certain people to life and leave others in their own rebellion. Matt 11:27 says, "...no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

 

[tulipbee]

The question really is not whether God shows favorites but IN WHAT SENSE does God not show favorites because God chose Abraham out of all the people's of the earth, not because he saw something good in him, or because he earned God's favor, but because God chooses to. He saves the poor, the wretched and the sinners of the earth according to his sovereign good pleasure in Christ.

 

[nobdysfool]

What does Paul say?

Romans 2
. 6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

You are totally ignoring what i have clearly shown, that you are conflating two different things, and trying make one be about the other WHEN THEY ARE NOT!

You are so blinded by your Catholic dogma that you cannot even think straight! Pay attention!

 

[supersoldier71]

What is frustrating is that they argue against straw men.

I've asked this before, I'll ask again:

WHY DO ARMINIANS PRAY FOR OTHERS?

They'll say it's because there's still hope. But if God is concerned with "honoring" free will, what hope is there? What are they praying for? Who, in fact, are they praying to?

Let's assume for the sake of Christian love and brotherhood that they are praying to the sovereign, ALMIGHTY God who sent His Son, to redeem His people.

And what MUST they logically be praying for?

That He will, in His great mercy and love, DO SOMETHING about the condition of the lost one.

We Reformed Protestants pray for the SAME things!

The only difference is that if that person goes to the grave lost, we accept that God is STILL sovereign over ALL things. (As if He needs me to repeat that).

You Arminians are broken records played with worn needles, saying the same things with less and less authenticity with every repetition.

 

[EmSw]

Brother, there you go with that "luck" thing again and it's a pernicious lie!

When you put something in God's hands do you call it luck?

What did you put in God's hand? Your lucky number was called long before you were born.

It's silly for you to keep using the term when we have, time and time again explained why your view on this is incorrect.

Calvinists (and I'm not really a full Calvinist) pray for the salvation of their loved ones because they understand that it is in God's hands.

Do you tell your loved ones they may not be chosen for salvation? Do you tell them there is nothing they can do if God foreordained them to hell? Do you pray to God to change His predestination for them? Do you pray to God to see if you need to pray for them? If they are foreordained to hell, your prayers are as useless as dung for food. If you pray for God to save them, then you could be praying against God's will. Are you hoping God might change His will?

Would it break your heart if God foreordained your loved ones to hell? What hope do your children have to go to heaven? Have you told your children they might go to hell and they can't do anything about it? I say again, you are a lucky one to be chosen to be saved.

If you DON'T believe that salvation is in God's hands, why do YOU pray for your loved ones?

Because salvation is theirs for the choosing. They have the choice to either accept or reject the gift from God, a choice Calvinists want to trample.

We pray for grace and mercy from the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

YOU pray for a winning lottery ticket.

Your arguments are increasingly weak and tired.

Why do you pray for grace and mercy? Will this change God's mind? If God has predestined to keep grace and mercy from you, will your prayers be effective?

I don't think we pray for a lottery ticket; we know the way to salvation, how to choose, seek, and put it within our hearts. Calvinists vehemently claim they can't choose and seek the way to salvation; they can't freely walk the path to salvation. What can Calvinists do to insure their salvation? NOTHING!

 

[EmSw]

No, we are not.(at least, I'm not). God chose me and set His love upon me before I was born and in spite of knowing that I hated Him.

I'll post this again because I like going round and round in circles.

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will" Eph 1:11.

Were you 'in Him' before the foundation of the world? Please explain. Paul said you were aliens and without Christ.

Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

How is it you were without Christ and 'in Him' at the same time? Paul said you had no hope, and you were without God. That doesn't sound like you were 'in Him'. If you had no hope in the time past, how is it you obtained an inheritance? Sounds like you were predestined as aliens and strangers from the promises to me. Also sounds like God predestined you to be without Christ and God. You call this God choosing you and setting His love on you before you were born?

Paul also says NOW in Christ Jesus, you are made near by the blood of Christ. Paul didn't say in 'times past' in Christ Jesus.

Having no hope means just that, you had no hope, despite your desire to be predestined before of the world. Having no hope sounds like those who are foreordained to hell.

 

[EmSw]

Who is it that does good?

Those who have a new heart and choose to do so.

 

[EmSw]

By defining favoritism the way Arminians do you would think that Jesus would go around healing everyone, raising everyone, and making no distinctions and divisions whatsoever. Or, you would think he would at least give everyone the choice to have their loved ones raised. But the Jesus presented in the Bible is obviously not the Jesus of Arminianism or Universalism. He's a Jesus who chooses to bring certain people to life and leave others in their own rebellion. Matt 11:27 says, "...no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

How are you sure He chooses you and not leave you in your own rebellion? You put yourself in His election.

 

[EmSw]

Yes! The Elect will do that and God will respond as is indicated there. OK?

Then, and only then, will he give you eternal life.

 

[supersoldier71]

What did you put in God's hand? Your lucky number was called long before you were born.



Do you tell your loved ones they may not be chosen for salvation? Do you tell them there is nothing they can do if God foreordained them to hell? Do you pray to God to change His predestination for them? Do you pray to God to see if you need to pray for them? If they are foreordained to hell, your prayers are as useless as dung for food. If you pray for God to save them, then you could be praying against God's will. Are you hoping God might change His will?

Would it break your heart if God foreordained your loved ones to hell? What hope do your children have to go to heaven? Have you told your children they might go to hell and they can't do anything about it? I say again, you are a lucky one to be chosen to be saved.



Because salvation is theirs for the choosing. They have the choice to either accept or reject the gift from God, a choice Calvinists want to trample.



Why do you pray for grace and mercy? Will this change God's mind? If God has predestined to keep grace and mercy from you, will your prayers be effective?

I don't think we pray for a lottery ticket; we know the way to salvation, how to choose, seek, and put it within our hearts. Calvinists vehemently claim they can't choose and seek the way to salvation; they can't freely walk the path to salvation. What can Calvinists do to insure their salvation? NOTHING!

Knowing and loving God, being aware of His presence, mercy and blessings are the evidence of His grace.

We pray to conform ourselves to His will.

What are you praying for Him to do?

Keep respecting "free will"?

Keep trying with the silly "luck" thing.

When you pray maybe you think that John lied to us about receiving what we pray for?

Continuing to refer to providence as "luck" is beyond ridiculous.

Please try to use stronger arguments.

And do figure out why you pray for the lost if not for God's intervention.

 

[supersoldier71]

What did you put in God's hand? Your lucky number was called long before you were born.



Do you tell your loved ones they may not be chosen for salvation? Do you tell them there is nothing they can do if God foreordained them to hell? Do you pray to God to change His predestination for them? Do you pray to God to see if you need to pray for them? If they are foreordained to hell, your prayers are as useless as dung for food. If you pray for God to save them, then you could be praying against God's will. Are you hoping God might change His will?

Would it break your heart if God foreordained your loved ones to hell? What hope do your children have to go to heaven? Have you told your children they might go to hell and they can't do anything about it? I say again, you are a lucky one to be chosen to be saved.



Because salvation is theirs for the choosing. They have the choice to either accept or reject the gift from God, a choice Calvinists want to trample.



Why do you pray for grace and mercy? Will this change God's mind? If God has predestined to keep grace and mercy from you, will your prayers be effective?

I don't think we pray for a lottery ticket; we know the way to salvation, how to choose, seek, and put it within our hearts. Calvinists vehemently claim they can't choose and seek the way to salvation; they can't freely walk the path to salvation. What can Calvinists do to insure their salvation? NOTHING!

And this argument again?

If you are aware that you are a sinner and in need of grace and appeal to God for mercy, then He hears you!

But we're not aware of our sinful natures until He makes us aware of our sins and the penalty for sin.

This is not a silly argument because it attempts to refute reformed theology, it's silly because it attempts to refute ALL theology.

Reformed Protestants no more believe that someone who truly wants to serve Christ will be excluded than you do.

We do believe that it is the Spirit of God that authors that desire and enables it.

 

[nobdysfool]

Were you 'in Him' before the foundation of the world? Please explain. Paul said you were aliens and without Christ.

Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

How is it you were without Christ and 'in Him' at the same time? Paul said you had no hope, and you were without God. That doesn't sound like you were 'in Him'. If you had no hope in the time past, how is it you obtained an inheritance? Sounds like you were predestined as aliens and strangers from the promises to me. Also sounds like God predestined you to be without Christ and God. You call this God choosing you and setting His love on you before you were born?

Paul also says NOW in Christ Jesus, you are made near by the blood of Christ. Paul didn't say in 'times past' in Christ Jesus.

Having no hope means just that, you had no hope, despite your desire to be predestined before of the world. Having no hope sounds like those who are foreordained to hell.

Please do not confuse our temporal condition with how God views the situation. God knows the end from the beginning, and he knows that His plan works in our temporal frame of reference, as far as we can see. But He sees much farther, which is why he can choose the elect before the foundation of the world, and determine the moment in time when they will be brought to Him. You apparently cannot conceive of how God being outside of time, unaffected by time, and not subject to its limitations, can decree things far into our future with perfect, pin-point accuracy, and know that they will come about exactly as He has decreed. It's either you can't conceive, or don't want to consider it because it blows a hole in your failed and faulty theology big enough to drive an 18-wheeler through.

With God, it's always "now". He calls those things that are not, as though they are, and they become real. He is the Sovereign, and His word comes to pass, 100% of the time.

 

[Foghorn]

The Truth is sometimes hard to accept, isn't it?

.

Aint that the truth!