Calvinism, explained.

[StanJ]

First off, to be elect means to be chosen of God beforehand, prior to birth.
So then your statement that you are elect after you believe is a distortion, a twisting of truth. Look up the greek meaning of elect.

That is your take, but that is not what it means. There is no such thing as Sovereign Election in the scripture. If there is, please support it from Scripture. You can't just pluck a few scriptures out of context and shoe-horn them into your predisposed dogma. That is called eisegesis.

http://www.douglashamp.com/why-god-...vation-and-commonly-is-a-reference-to-israel/

 

[ToBeLoved]

We can never stop against Calvinism. It destroys the faith of the weak and calls into question God's grace for those being called.

This trek can never end because we are called to be a voice for the weak.


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[ToBeLoved]

I won't stop.


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[Patmos]

I won't stop.


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....
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.

....
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

 

[GillDouglas]

This is why faith in the perfect work of Christ at the Cross is sufficient, right?

Exactly. When people try to add to His work I take issue.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Exactly. When people try to add to His work I take issue.

It's not unlike with the marriage analogy: I don't have to hope anxiously in order to wonder if my wife and I are truly married; we in fact can rest and rejoice in the fact that we are indeed truly married; justification is not a vague, drawn out process of possibly or supposedly becoming reckoned just in the sight of God, but rather the believe is indeed reckoned just because of faith in the finished work of Christ.

 

[sdowney717]

That is your take, but that is not what it means. There is no such thing as Sovereign Election in the scripture. If there is, please support it from Scripture. You can't just pluck a few scriptures out of context and shoe-horn them into your predisposed dogma. That is called eisegesis.

http://www.douglashamp.com/why-god-...vation-and-commonly-is-a-reference-to-israel/

Mark 13:20New King James Version (NKJV)
20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Those who do not agree with the sound words of Christ, build not on the ROCK of our salvation, but on sand and great will be your ruin.

Matthew 7
Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.

1 Timothy 6:3-4New King James Version (NKJV)

Error and Greed
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,

 

[EmSw]

Mark 13:20New King James Version (NKJV)
20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Those who do not agree with the sound words of Christ, build not on the ROCK of our salvation, but on sand and great will be your ruin.

Matthew 7
Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.

1 Timothy 6:3-4New King James Version (NKJV)

Error and Greed
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,

I love this part sdowney -

Matthew 7
Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.

 

[Patmos]

I love this part sdowney -

Matthew 7
Build on the Rock
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.

Maybe not everything is predestined after all!

Sdowney, please advise on this.

 

[GillDouglas]

Maybe not everything is predestined after all!

Sdowney, please advise on this.

If all things are not predetermined by God, what does determine them?

 

[Patmos]

If all things are not predetermined by God, what does determine them?

Why does the Bible even bother with passages like this "26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish" ?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why does the Bible even bother with passages like this "26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish" ?

True. If everything is predetermined there is no choice. We do not have a choice so why even put that in there.

We can only do what we have been predestined to do.

 

[GillDouglas]

Why does the Bible even bother with passages like this "26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish" ?

Or passages like "for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place." (Acts 4:27-28) Which tell us that God predestined all things centered around this event, the actions and choices of men against Him.

This event which was foretold by Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."

 

[Patmos]

The issue that is well buried by now is if God determines ALL things then how can one claim he is not the author of sin.

Are you a hard determinist or what ?

 

[Albion]

The issue that is well buried by now is if God determines ALL things then how can one claim he is not the author of sin.

Sin is the absence or renunciation of good. It is silly to claim that God is the "author" of sin merely because he allows it to exist.

 

[Patmos]

Sin is the absence or renunciation of good. It is silly to claim that God is the "author" of sin merely because he allows it to exist.

Yes, merely because he allows it. In general, speaking with a broad brush, non-calvinists throughout all history, go with the permissive will of God in addition to his decretive will.

So NOT all things are predestined right down to the last wiggling electron. Rather, God is REALLY big, and can handle random events without any problem whatsoever. Polar opposite to the small dictator who rules by force.

Lets say that God had not determined the building of the Tower of Babel but even though predestined the ability of the men to build it. Does the BIG true God worry? Course not. He knows how long it will take them to build it big enough and can go and have a coffee with Enoch, knowing without a doubt that when he come back to knock it down he won't be too late.

Permissive will in addition to decretive will. Absolutely.

 

[GillDouglas]

True. If everything is predetermined there is no choice. We do not have a choice so why even put that in there.

We can only do what we have been predestined to do.

@ToBeLoved I've ignored you too long. I believe we have a misunderstanding here. The assumption might be that because God is the Sovereign Ruler, who does in fact govern all things, that He makes the individual decisions for men. But it might surprise you that we would both agree that man is nothing less of an intelligent, free, morals driven agent who his entirely responsible for his actions.

The ideas that I, and many others like me, have tried to express is: God's sovereignty in the expression of predestination, effectual providential control, etc. go hand in hand with those of liberty and responsibility of rational creatures.

You must understand that in our position we see that God didn't just create ALL of this and then walk away to let the 'ship run adrift or aground' like a naval fleet without commander/pilot. This contradicts all that we believe about God as seen countless times in Scriptures and our daily/life experiences.

God created a perfect story in which our individual lives enrich it and bring glory to Him. Also He thought it right to reveal Himself to His creation and become a part of our lives.

 

[Salem]

Why is Calvinism all the rage online? Are there churches out there, in 2016, preaching "thus saith Calvin?" It all seems Popish, with a Protestant twist. I can't even recall a fundamentalist I've heard that mentioned Calvin, have heard no reputable Bible minister I'd listen to teaching the doctrines of any school of man, for that matter. Are many of these debates just fabricated, for the purpose of people who like disputing?

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[Albion]

Yes, merely because he allows it..

No. That doesn't work.

 

[Albion]

Why is Calvinism all the rage online?

Judging from the posts and threads here, it's the "rage" only among those who either don't understand it, don't like it, or both.

There is a remarkable lack of Calvinists or members of Reformed churches promoting the idea--especially if we compare the postings with those made by members of other denominations pushing some "pet" doctrinal theory held by their own churches.