Cain and Lamech

[TamaraLynne]

Mt 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mt 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

growing up I always thought this a mystery number and it was never explained...

I found these today


Ge 4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

Ge 4:24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

Ge 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Ge 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

So I know vengeance is of the Lord and I'm just not quite putting this all together

I understand forgiveness but I'm not understanding all of this...I know that Jesus must have been refering to Cain and Lamech...what was the message? And why did Lamech say seventy-seven fold..God told Cain seven fold...but Lamech is the one who said seventy-seven fold...

then of course Jesus said what Lamech had said...

 

[Habakk]

Seven is the biblical number of perfect completeness. When Peter said seven times he was in fact thinking of a big number and of complete fulfilment, maybe he was trying to impress the Lord. Jesus answered by giving the number seventy times seven indicating that forgiveness has no limits.

Lamech was in a way mocking God for his dealings and tolerance with Cain. Cain was severely punished yet God set limits on that and said if anybody added to it God would deal with them seven times greater. Lamech was boasting that he could go on killing and get away with it and not fear God.

 

[TamaraLynne]

Seven is the biblical number of perfect completeness. When Peter said seven times he was in fact thinking of a big number and of complete fulfilment, maybe he was trying to impress the Lord. Jesus answered by giving the number seventy times seven indicating that forgiveness has no limits.

Lamech was in a way mocking God for his dealings and tolerance with Cain. Cain was severely punished yet God set limits on that and said if anybody added to it God would deal with them seven times greater. Lamech was boasting that he could go on killing and get away with it and not fear God.

Whooo Lamech did that?

 

[x141]

Seven has alot of meanings in relationship to what it surrounds, and how this applies to a son (who is in us) coming forth.


You will see in the two lines, two seeds, just as there are a heaven and an earth, the creative days or of a son coming forth, begins with Let there be light, where the two are separated, darkness becoming evil by default.


There are two Enoch's as there are two Lamech's.


The mocking of God by the earhtly, is the same as Ishmael mocking Isaac. It has more to do with labor does not produce the promise, being that the promise is something given, not earned.


There is symbolism everywhere in scripture, just as Adam was seventy years short from entering into the seventh day (living 930 years (1000 years as one day and one day as a 1000 years), or entering into rest.


But all this symbolism has to do firstly with the Son being revealed in us.


I could give you quite a blurb on the sevens ... and how they relate to other such occurences in scripture.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Genesis 5:31
And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

1260 days+ 1290 days+ 1335 days= 3885 divided by 5 = 777

Numbers can be interesting, but hard to discern.

7 is a number for cleansing and purification per the law...like 7 times.

7 times 70 = 490= Jubilee

70 weeks (70x7) of Daniel etc.

 

[TamaraLynne]

Seven has alot of meanings in relationship to what it surrounds, and how this applies to a son (who is in us) coming forth.


You will see in the two lines, two seeds, just as there are a heaven and an earth, the creative days or of a son coming forth, begins with Let there be light, where the two are separated, darkness becoming evil by default.


There are two Enoch's as there are two Lamech's.


The mocking of God by the earhtly, is the same as Ishmael mocking Isaac. It has more to do with labor does not produce the promise, being that the promise is something given, not earned.


There is symbolism everywhere in scripture, just as Adam was seventy years short from entering into the seventh day (living 930 years (1000 years as one day and one day as a 1000 years), or entering into rest.


But all this symbolism has to do firstly with the Son being revealed in us.


I could give you quite a blurb on the sevens ... and how they relate to other such occurences in scripture.

You are more then welcome to blurb


hmmm...I'm just wondering why I went to the Cain and Lamech part...so forgiving our brother seventy-seven times seven has nothing to do with Cain or Lamech? Not at all?

 

[TamaraLynne]

Seven is the biblical number of perfect completeness. When Peter said seven times he was in fact thinking of a big number and of complete fulfilment, maybe he was trying to impress the Lord. Jesus answered by giving the number seventy times seven indicating that forgiveness has no limits.

Lamech was in a way mocking God for his dealings and tolerance with Cain. Cain was severely punished yet God set limits on that and said if anybody added to it God would deal with them seven times greater. Lamech was boasting that he could go on killing and get away with it and not fear God.

I was surprised that you said Lamech was boasting...how do we get that he was boasting...

first I see that Lamech had been hurt in some way by another and he took vengence...instead of forgiving he took vengence..but I do not know if forgiveness was even known about back then...but Lamech knew God had punished Cain so surely then he knew God was going to punish him to...just that others would not be able to or else it would be worse for them....isn't that what seven times meant for Cain? That if anyone tried to punish Cain after God had already punished Cain then it would be 7 times worse for the person? Did Lamech have something to do with tents and Cattle or his family was? wondering if he compared himself to Abel as if God loved him more because his offerings would be like Abels?

Sorry I'm just posting thoughts that come to me

 

[TamaraLynne]

I guess that would be in a sense boasting
but I'm sure he expected punishment?

 

[TamaraLynne]

Seven has alot of meanings in relationship to what it surrounds, and how this applies to a son (who is in us) coming forth.


You will see in the two lines, two seeds, just as there are a heaven and an earth, the creative days or of a son coming forth, begins with Let there be light, where the two are separated, darkness becoming evil by default.


There are two Enoch's as there are two Lamech's.


The mocking of God by the earhtly, is the same as Ishmael mocking Isaac. It has more to do with labor does not produce the promise, being that the promise is something given, not earned.


There is symbolism everywhere in scripture, just as Adam was seventy years short from entering into the seventh day (living 930 years (1000 years as one day and one day as a 1000 years), or entering into rest.


But all this symbolism has to do firstly with the Son being revealed in us.


I could give you quite a blurb on the sevens ... and how they relate to other such occurences in scripture.

yes I was surprised by the two Enochs at first confused and then I went to Seths line and was surprised

 

[TamaraLynne]

I'm trying to find where Lamech got punished...is it in the bible to show his punishment?

 

[TamaraLynne]

Ge 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.


Ge 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.


Ge 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.


Ge 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

This stuff sounds familiar...does it have anything to do with anything?

 

[Habakk]

I'm trying to find where Lamech got punished...is it in the bible to show his punishment?

All we know is that Lamech killed a younger man.

Lamech represents the last generation of the Cainites and also represents the sum of those that turned away from the promise of the Messiah to Eve, in contrast to the Sethites. A boaster in himself not a partaker of the promise.

 

[TamaraLynne]

All we know is that Lamech killed a younger man.

Lamech represents the last generation of the Cainites and also represents the sum of those that turned away from the promise of the Messiah to Eve, in contrast to the Sethites. A boaster in himself not a partaker of the promise.

Thank you (((hug))) my brain is still a whirling around. I very much appreciate your response

 

[x141]

You are more then welcome to blurb


hmmm...I'm just wondering why I went to the Cain and Lamech part...so forgiving our brother seventy-seven times seven has nothing to do with Cain or Lamech? Not at all?

It is very much about the individual, but it is how they came to be where they were through the same process revealed by Adam and Eve. The Bible is a narrative that is one cohesive book, whether we understand it or not, makes no difference. If you believe it to be the word of God, God is not divided, it is one faith, one name, one baptism ... you get the point.

You forgive until the promise comes forth ... how many times in one day ...

Jacobs sevety weeks relate to Adam's seventy years of falling short of entering into the promise. You will find as you go on pursuing this stuff that all the sevens and their multiples are about a process happening in us, like the Jacobs seventy souls in Egypt, the seventy elders in the wlderness, Jesus' seventy, and the seventy AD of the destruction of the literial Jerusalem, to name a few.

Cain Slew Abel over a sacrifice God never asked for. Cain was going through process as well as Abel, but these refer to a process of a son becoming clean in us, and how truth is slain or cast down in us, and where it is cast down into.