Becoming God?

[Philothei]

To aquire the mind of Christ as he is the archetype for us means to fulfill our likeness to God. We are enabled to do so now esp. because God was incarnated in Jesus Christ. So... to aquire Christ's mind should not even be in question. We do not "dihotomize" Christ in his natures and say oh...oh...no I cannot live up to this archetype since hs is also God. If Christ is a full man and still sinless his sinlessnes is depended upot being fully God? No so to be like Christ is in his mind is not an unattainable task since it is IN Scripure also. It does say it is possible to achieve

My 0,2 cents...

 

[MamaZ]

*sigh*
I read the scripture.

I guess that's me not following the Apostle's again

I asked if you followed the Apostles teaching. I don't know why you have assumed that I suggested you do not follow the Apostles teaching.. You have said you are a Christ follower and I asked if you followed the Apostles teaching which we have recorded for us in the scriptures.

 

[WileyCoyote]

1Co 2:3 I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling,
1Co 2:4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
1Co 2:7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1Co 2:8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;
1Co 2:9 but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."
1Co 2:10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
1Co 2:13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
1Co 2:15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
1Co 2:16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Nice exegesis, MamaZ.

 

[wlajoie74]

Okay, try to open your minds a little bit and see if you can follow this.

God knows our hearts and He can make us anything He wants. We were created in his image. If he sees that we have reached a place our hearts where we have become perfect like He is perfect than sure we can become God.

The kingdom of God is within us. Jesus preached a God-conciousness. If we can get to a place where our thoughts and actions directly coincide with God than we in essense become Him.

With God as our guide NOTHING is impossible. Pray to Him ask for the Spirit to guide your heart. It is Jesus who said there will be ones that come after Him that will do works greater than He. How can this be possible if it is not possible to become like Him?

The curtain has been torn. He speaks to each of us directly if we ask for it.

Above all have faith. It is by faith all things are possible. If we believe in Him and his abilities, His abilities will be shown.

With Love

 

[Montalban]

I asked if you followed the Apostles teaching. I don't know why you have assumed that I suggested you do not follow the Apostles teaching.. You have said you are a Christ follower and I asked if you followed the Apostles teaching which we have recorded for us in the scriptures.

If you didn't think I followed it, then you'd ask if I did or not.

 

[Montalban]

Nice exegesis, MamaZ.

I thought that exegesis meant more than quoting text as if it says just what someone's interpretation believes it says.

 

[MamaZ]

I thought that exegesis meant more than quoting text as if it says just what someone's interpretation believes it says.

Who interpreted what was written? It was just put there to read.

 

[Montalban]

Who interpreted what was written? It was just put there to read.

Why do I do this?


I wasn't replying to you.

Someone congratulated you on exegesis (which is, as far as I know interpretation). I noted you didn't do any interpretation, therefore I believe that they were mistaken.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I asked if you followed the Apostles teaching. I don't know why you have assumed that I suggested you do not follow the Apostles teaching.. You have said you are a Christ follower and I asked if you followed the Apostles teaching which we have recorded for us in the scriptures.

No, the teachings are not recorded in the scriptures...
The rebuttal to heresies against their teachings are in scriptures.

Their teachings were done orally - the writings are against heresies and arguments that arose within the laity and sometimes Jews.

In fact - in this measure - the NT is incomplete on the full teachings.
What you see is a counter to the arguments, so basically, not knowing the original teaching nor the counter claim, all you have is the outcome after all was said and done.

Therefore Tradition which Paul tells Timothy to keep - is the actual teaching - and it is Tradition that has been preserved by the Church.
And henceforth - this is why you only see the inference of Tradition in the texts - because the texts were never ever meant to be the fullness of the taught faith.

I think once ppl realise this - they will look more into Tradition - ecf writings - so forth.



For instance - if you got the third letter of any argument or rebuttal, could you claim it was the actual 'heard' understanding?

If you hear the last bit of an argument - can you truly say you know what started it?

 

[WarriorAngel]

but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."

Yeah, and this means - fwiw - that we cannot explain it or see it what God has prepared...
Unexplainable would be the condensed version.

IE - there are no words to put it to since it is incomprehensible.

This does NOT mean that the Lord didn't ALLOW His men words to explain it...only that it is too hard to find words to explain it.

 

[Polycarp1]

Who interpreted what was written? It was just put there to read.

Let me translate for a second here.

MamaZ posted Scripture, without any explanation as to why she posted that Scripture, in the apparent belief that its relevance would be self-evident.

WileyCoyote complimented her on her "exegesis".

Montalban noted, accurately, that she had not done any exegesis. Consider Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. The eunuch knew the (Old Testament) scriptures; that's given in the narrative. What Philip did was to show him where they pointed to Jesus. That was exegesis. Quoting "He was wounded for our transgressions" is not exegesis -- showing that the reference is to Jesus and His Atonement is.

There was no criticism of MamaZ's post (the scriptures did indeed seem relevant) -- the question was the term Wiley applied to it.

 

[Arch Emerging]

Yeah, and this means - fwiw - that we cannot explain it or see it what God has prepared...
Unexplainable would be the condensed version.

IE - there are no words to put it to since it is incomprehensible.

This does NOT mean that the Lord didn't ALLOW His men words to explain it...only that it is too hard to find words to explain it.

actually the quote posted in full is saying we CAN now know it through the Spirit if God wills

 

[WarriorAngel]

This does NOT mean that the Lord didn't ALLOW His men words to explain it...only that it is too hard to find words to explain it.

actually the quote posted in full is saying we CAN now know it through the Spirit if God wills

There are no words, if someone is not given the Spirit to understand it. Which the verses work well in this thread, possibly.

Someone can explain something til the cows come home, but whom they are explaining it to may not ever see it.
UNLESS God unveils the eyes.

And so long as pride, in the case of some Jews during their time, refused to see it, they were never going to see it, until humility and emptying oneself in order to see it...not saying I KNOW IT ALL...but saying - I dont know it and i need the Lord to lead me ...and wheresoever i am led i will follow as His sheep.

God loves humility, humbleness.
Arrogance He turns away from and leaves to themselves.
Sheep always need a shepherd... and they do not rely on themselves.

This is why He reveals to the lowly. This is why He allows us to stumble around in the dark until we completely empty ourselves. Til we ask Him to show us... to enlighten us completely.

As Paul explains - WE must NOT rely on ourselves and our own wisdom...
For he says....'...faith would not rest on the wisdom of men.'

AND as we all know - Paul - was a man.
But he taught via the spirit ...in trembling...WEAKNESS and fear.
Because he became small - he became greater in the Spirit.

Paul did not credit himself for understanding everything, he relied on the Spirit and acceptance to be an Apostle by the appointed MEN - the Apostles.

Appointed being the opportune word here.

And if Jesus didnt need men to carry on the deposit of his precepts - His doctrines - as I said earlier, He would have just written the Gospels out and handed out His writings to each town as He healed them.

No, He established His doctrines with men - but those men although beginning His ministry on earth - were also frustrated by those who would not yeild to their TEACHINGS ABOUT THE LORD...because the hearers arrogance worked like feathers on a duck and repelled Him.

Again, Men wrote these things. They never once said 'that the Lord didnt rely on men to teach men - or else they were shooting themselves in the foot.'


SO the next time someone feels the compulsion to say we do not listen to men, don't forget that the Apostles were not so ingenius amongst themselves to suggest we do not get teachings from men...and plainly Paul was only referring to UNDERSTANDING coming from God - what those VERY teachings mean.

DID i make sense? It worked better in my head than writing it all out.

But in a nutshell...
Jesus appointed men to teach men and as we all know to ordain more men to succeed them...read Timothy closely.

 

[MamaZ]

We have no need for men to teach us as scripture tells us. For it is the annointing in us that teaches us all things. This would be the Holy Spirit.

 

[Montalban]

We have no need for men to teach us as scripture tells us. For it is the annointing in us that teaches us all things. This would be the Holy Spirit.

Scripture shows men teaching us... but that's being discussed on another thread

 

[Arch Emerging]

We have no need for men to teach us as scripture tells us. For it is the annointing in us that teaches us all things. This would be the Holy Spirit.

God teaches us through men and helps us to decern the truth in their words(whether they are correct or not) through his Spirit

I think this is what WarriorAngel was saying

 

[Montalban]

God teaches us through men and helps us to decern the truth in their words(whether they are correct or not) through his Spirit

I think this is what WarriorAngel was saying

God became man, too. People seem to hate mankind. God used man to transmit his word

 

[WarriorAngel]

God teaches us through men and helps us to decern the truth in their words(whether they are correct or not) through his Spirit

I think this is what WarriorAngel was saying

Exactly.

God became man, too. People seem to hate mankind. God used man to transmit his word

Prescisely.

The Teachers have been taught since the beginning.
New concepts have not been taught since the beginning.
SO whom is correct?

Jesus became man so man could be like Him.
Only God can show you this, because He already sent out His men from the beginning to teach this and it has carried onwards in every generation since He established this, via His men...[succession]

 

[Montalban]

If faith alone were enough then why...
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

[Arch Emerging]

these verses I think are telling for this this "debate" as well:

2 Corinthians 4

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish: 4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.

2 Corinthians 3

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

Here we see Christ referred to as THE image of God and we are also told in the chapter prior that we are being transformed into the same image as from the Spirit