Atheists Preaching the Gospel! (heads up, atheists!!)

[Gospelutionary]

The Spirit of God moved me the other day to share a key for atheists to begin preaching the gospel/good news/teachings of Christ, especially considering the severe lack of His teachings being propagated by nominal "Christianity".

It's gonna hit the institutional church(es) where it hurts, but we all know most of the greatest growth we experience is through suffering, and as long as the love and teachings of Christ (not religianity) are getting far more air-time than usual, so be it----ALL GLORY TO THE MOST HIGH!

Who would've thought true revival could be initiated by atheists?!?

So, atheists, here I am to drop the key at your feet...

You can start with just a little bit of research, using any online bible reference (I like biblehub because it's very simple and uses many parallel translations that can help clarify difficult passages). The more familiar you get with the "Red letters", i.e. Jesus' actual teachings/commands, the better. Any time you see Jesus addressing his followers or even "innumerable multitudes", you can be sure that those teachings also apply to modern day followers of his as well.

Just to get you going, here's one you can start sharing with your christian friends or during any random encounter with a "churchie", either online or on the street. If you are asked whether or not you are "saved" and/or "accepted Jesus", you can ask them if THEY'VE ever actually accepted ANYTHING Jesus taught, such as this:

""Sell all your material possessions, and give the money to the poor. Make yourselves wallets that don't wear out! Make a treasure for yourselves in heaven that never loses its value! In heaven thieves and moths can't get close enough to destroy your treasure." (Luke 12:33, Luke 14:33, Acts 2:45, & 4:34-35; James 5:1-3)

And this is just the beginning!! Have a look for yourselves at the "red letters" to see how many more of these completely revolutionary "bombs" that Jesus dropped on the institutional churches of his time.

If you look but don't think you've struck on another powerful teaching/command for his followers, I'm happy to share many more!

 

[LoveDivine]

Interesting thought, but I don't understand why any atheist would want to invest that much time in learning and promoting the teachings of Christ. If a person doesn't believe that Jesus existed and that the gospels (the account of his teachings) are fictional or a mythology, why would they care to promote that. I know that some atheists/humanists would respect some of the ideals that Christ promoted, but there would be just as many teachings they would reject. True, they could use this new found knowledge to challenge and provoke Christians to examine themselves. How would that benefit atheists? I am not aware that their goal is to inspire Christians to be more Christlike.

 

[Moral Orel]

As an atheist I like to point out faulty Christian logic that allows them to do what I consider "bad things". If it makes them be a better person and acknowledge what they should have been doing all along, all the better. It may stem from pointing out what I consider Biblical errors, but as long as it bears good fruit, as they say, I don't care if I convert someone away or not.

I think the OP is talking mostly about the cocky atheists who just want to make Christians look stupid, which isn't my personal goal, but I know there are a lot of them, so the OP isn't wrong necessarily. And I know a lot of atheists like to point out logs in people's eyes. Trouble is if you come off as too abrasive you aren't going to be heard in the first place.

 

[LoveDivine]

As an atheist I like to point out faulty Christian logic that allows them to do what I consider "bad things". If it makes them be a better person and acknowledge what they should have been doing all along, all the better. It may stem from pointing out what I consider Biblical errors, but as long as it bears good fruit, as they say, I don't care if I convert someone away or not.

I think the OP is talking mostly about the cocky atheists who just want to make Christians look stupid, which isn't my personal goal, but I know there are a lot of them, so the OP isn't wrong necessarily. And I know a lot of atheists like to point out logs in people's eyes. Trouble is if you come off as too abrasive you aren't going to be heard in the first place.

Okay, I understand where you are coming from. I do realize that one of the most effective ways to prepare for a debate is to thoroughly study your opponent's beliefs/position. I understand that atheists need to be familiar with the Bible in order to formulate arguments to refute Christianity. The only thing I didn't get from the OP's posting (perhaps I misread it) was the idea of atheists promoting the teachings of Christ and initiating a revival. I am thinking that is counterproductive? I would think that an atheist would be better served by proving that morality and goodness don't stem from a relationship with Christ and that many non-Christians are just as moral. To prove that social consciousness and love for your fellowman is not dependent on religion or faith is to undermine the need for religion. After that is established, the next point would be to show that religion actually produces hateful or harmful behavior that is detrimental to society. I only see one way that the teachings of Christ would be beneficial to an atheist. The gospel could be used as the benchmark for evaluating the morality and benevolence of most Christians. Sadly, I'd have to agree with the OP that most Christians would fail this test. After you have proven that they don't live up to the teachings of their own faith, you would then need to prove that others without religion behave better and give examples. Once you have established that, the words of Christ no longer matter since you have proven that secular beliefs/views produce better character.

In reality though, this approach wouldn't accomplish much apart from shaming and embarrassing some Christians. Any truly genuine and sincere Christian would be meek enough to take your correction. They might be crushed and ashamed, but if they had a good heart they would be spurred on by your rebuke to seek Christ's grace and forgiveness. All you would have accomplished is to create better Christians and possibly expose the false ones. Any true Christian should rejoice in that outcome.

 

[Moral Orel]

Okay, I understand where you are coming from. I do realize that one of the most effective ways to prepare for a debate is to thoroughly study your opponent's beliefs/position. I understand that atheists need to be familiar with the Bible in order to formulate arguments to refute Christianity. The only thing I didn't get from the OP's posting (perhaps I misread it) was the idea of atheists promoting the teachings of Christ and initiating a revival. I am thinking that is counterproductive? I would think that an atheist would be better served by proving that morality and goodness don't stem from a relationship with Christ and that many non-Christians are just as moral. To prove that social consciousness and love for your fellowman is not dependent on religion or faith is to undermine the need for religion. After that is established, the next point would be to show that religion actually produces hateful or harmful behavior that is detrimental to society. I only see one way that the teachings of Christ would be beneficial to an atheist. The gospel could be used as the benchmark for evaluating the morality and benevolence of most Christians. Sadly, I'd have to agree with the OP that most Christians would fail this test. After you have proven that they don't live up to the teachings of their own faith, you would then need to prove that others without religion behave better and give examples. Once you have established that, the words of Christ no longer matter since you have proven that secular beliefs/views produce better character.

In reality though, this approach wouldn't accomplish much apart from shaming and embarrassing some Christians. Any truly genuine and sincere Christian would be meek enough to take your correction. They might be crushed and ashamed, but if they had a good heart they would be spurred on by your rebuke to seek Christ's grace and forgiveness. All you would have accomplished is to create better Christians and possibly expose the false ones. Any true Christian should rejoice in that outcome.

When I point out to a Christian their lack of following the gospel, it is usually followed by them telling me that I don't understand the Bible as well as them. Personally, even if I don't believe in the Bible, I still think Jesus was a great guy and had almost no bad advice. So I don't bother pointing out things that other parts of the Bible say, unless I think they're just silly nonsense. For the most part, I think that particularly here in America, most Christians suffer from selfishness and greed. I suffer from them too, but I don't have the extra penalties attached to them that Christians do. But because so many Christians refuse scrutiny and critical thinking in so many other areas, they refuse scrutiny of themselves, which ironically is specifically referenced by Jesus in the Bible. So it isn't really embarrassment that most Christians feel as a result of being judged by atheists, it is more of disgust as in, "how dare someone so wicked try to tell me how to live my life" when all I'm ever doing is quoting their religion to them. So there may be some time that someone says, "Huh, I guess I really should give to the poor" I don't really see it happening soon.

 

[LoveDivine]

I agree with you. I think that many Christians in North America do have a different outlook than Christians do in other parts of the world. I think the focus has shifted from denying yourself, picking up your cross, and being a servant to all. The emphasis is on having a blessed and successful life. Faith in Christ is almost viewed as a means to facilitate this perfect and fulfilled life. It is the best of both worlds; a wonderful, meaningful life in this world and eternal bliss in the world to come. I'd also agree that many Christians would become indignant if another tried to gently point out issues with their faith (Now there are times when people can be hostile and challenging and no one should be subjected to that). I'd maintain though that a true Christian would demonstrate meekness and a willingness to examine his own life. If a person has genuinely experienced conversion and the grace of Christ, they know that they are far from perfect and they are able to humbly receive correction from anyone.

Ghandi said " I would be a Christian if it were not for the Christians." I think that if you respect Jesus and his teachings, I'd focus on that and ignore what you see in American Christianity. From what you said, you aren't hostile towards the concept of Christ or his teachings as many atheists are. You just aren't convinced of his existence.

 

[Messy]

Lol my dad once went to their neighbour who was sick: You have to go to that healing service! I don't believe either but there's amazing things happening there. Then he was surprised they got mad at him.

 

[Gospelutionary]

Nice to see some thoughtful discussion happening here! I'm particularly thankful to you, Nicholas, for being so gentle in your approach of reminding "Christians" of Jesus' teachings in the gospels, which is the entire point of this thread!

I put the word Christian in quotation marks since it is a very bizarre concept that they would claim such a name for themselves while being completely unfamiliar with the actual teachings/commands given by the one they claim to follow.

Yankeegirl--thanks to you as well for your input and reminder that it's far more beneficial to focus on the words of Christ than feel any obligation to adhere to anything else in the bible. After all, is the bible itself "the way, the truth, & the life"?

By the way, I don't feel that it's necessary to create different categories of Christ-followers. They are either trying to follow his teachings or not. It really is that simple, and if they are clueless about any of his teachings/commands it is already quite a misnomer that they would profess to be disciples (students) of his.

"IF you love me you will obey my teachings", & "why do you call me 'lord, lord' and yet refuse to obey my teachings?"

 

[LoveDivine]

I am glad that you brought up the verse about Christ being the way, the truth, and the life. That is the essence of Christianity. Christians need to focus on developing a personal relationship with Christ and prayerfully meditating on His teachings. My personal favorite passage of Scripture is Matthew 5. I have always found the Sermon on the Mount (particularly the Beatitudes) to be the greatest direction for practical Christian living. One key component that should not be forgotten in this good discussion is Love. It is theoretically possible for a follower of Christ to follow his teachings outwardly. We can give to the poor, be patient, be kind, etc. Although that is a great starting point and we will be a positive influence on society, we may still be lacking. Unless our actions proceed from a genuine love for God and others we are not true followers. Careful reading of Christ's teachings reveal that our motives, thoughts, and intents of the heart are just as important as our outward actions. I believe it was this emphasis that aroused such hatred among the Jewish spiritual leaders. Examining our true motivation is uncomfortable and this is where most would take offence. I don't think there are many Christians that would disagree with His teachings from an ideological standpoint (whether or not they actually obey is another story). Some would however dislike any teachings that probe the secrets of the heart.

Although I would agree that Christ's teachings are the best passages to concentrate on initially, I do personally believe that the entire Bible is inspired and that there aren't any contradictions within scripture. I think that there are passages that may be difficult to understand and on a surface reading may seem to contradict other scriptures. Careful study and examination of the context and meaning of verses doesn't reveal any true discrepancies. I know for instance, the resurrection account differs in all four gospels. It isn't that they actually contradict, but careful study is needed to piece together an accurate timeline. The apparent differences are the result of the writers emphasizing different events. Even some of the more peculiar verses or laws in the Old Testament can be harmonized with the teachings of Christ. Christ stated He did come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. Unfortunately, may people stumble and reject the validity of the Bible due to misunderstanding and misinterpretation.

 

[Moral Orel]

From what you said, you aren't hostile towards the concept of Christ or his teachings as many atheists are. You just aren't convinced of his existence.

I'm not convinced of his miracles. He clearly existed, and it is the foolish atheist who says he is just a myth. There is plenty of secular evidence to his existence, but even an atheist should acknowledge that the Bible is plenty of evidence that he existed. It wasn't written that long ago. Adam and Eve, I don't believe existed because they were written about long after they were dead. Moses I believe existed because he is purported to have written a large portion of the Old Testament. Again, I don't necessarily believe he talked to God, but he was real and helped to create the Jewish religion.

 

[LoveDivine]

I'm not convinced of his miracles. He clearly existed, and it is the foolish atheist who says he is just a myth. There is plenty of secular evidence to his existence, but even an atheist should acknowledge that the Bible is plenty of evidence that he existed. It wasn't written that long ago. Adam and Eve, I don't believe existed because they were written about long after they were dead. Moses I believe existed because he is purported to have written a large portion of the Old Testament. Again, I don't necessarily believe he talked to God, but he was real and helped to create the Jewish religion.

Oh okay. In a sense your beliefs are very similar to Thomas Jefferson's. He was a deist. He did believe in a God, but he rewrote the gospel and took out all the accounts of Jesus' miracles. His work was titled the Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. He didn't believe in the miracles, but respected the teachings of Christ. I'm curious, do you doubt Jesus miracles because you don't believe in the supernatural or do you doubt the accounts of miracles because you don't believe in Christ's divinity?

 

[Gospelutionary]

Thanks, Yankeegirl, for the reminder about the need for love to be at the deepest foundation of all that we do.

We would both agree that all of the outward manifestations of a commitment to Jesus' teachings would be empty without being born from love.

However, I think it's still important to consider the possibility that it's still better to err on the side of actually TRYING to follow His commands/teachings without first tying ourselves in knots over whether love is our primary motivation.

I think the poor & oppressed of the world would like to at least see our fumbled, outward attempts at following Christ than us waiting to reach a point of selfless certainty before we ever even begin to show ANY aspect of God's love for them.

 

[LoveDivine]

[QUOTE I think the poor & oppressed of the world would like to at least see our fumbled, outward attempts at following Christ than us waiting to reach a point of selfless certainty before we ever even begin to show ANY aspect of God's love for them.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Society would be greatly benefited if everyone followed these teachings outwardly. I have known individuals that only gave to others to receive praise and attention. I am still happy that they give and are charitable and that people in need are being helped.

I think Ben Franklin understood that. From most accounts that I have read of his life, he wasn't sure about the divinity of Christ but respected His morals/teachings. He was quoted in a letter of warning to Thomas Paine regarding the dangers of publishing his pamphlet Common Sense. He advised Paine: " not to unleash the tiger in criticizing organized faith. If men are so wicked with religion what would they be without it." I think that there can never be a bad or harmful outcome of obeying Christ's teaching regardless of the motivation. Most of the problems of society are the result of a rejection of His teachings.

 

[Gospelutionary]

"Most of the problems of society are due to a rejection of his teachings".

Exactly, which bears some profound relevance to many of his teachings that Paul summarised as "the love of money (being) THE root of ALL evil."

This phrase Paul used rests heavily on and emphasises Jesus' "no one can serve 2 masters" teaching, as well as how our lord wanted us to not only talk about love but to show it's outpouring into an economic reality when he revealed to us what it means to "love your neighbor as yourself"----

"$ell all that you own and give the proceeds to the poor..." (Luke: 11, 12, 14----note: none of these passages make any reference to any particularly rich individuals.)

 

[Moral Orel]

I'm curious, do you doubt Jesus miracles because you don't believe in the supernatural or do you doubt the accounts of miracles because you don't believe in Christ's divinity?

I don't believe in the supernatural. Never seen anything that was supernatural, can't acknowledge its existence based on testimony since people can always lie or be crazy. No offense to people who feel that they have witnessed true miracles, but a lot of times it is just a coincidence, and there have been a lot of things that people believe are miracles that even people who believe in God know to be false/silly. Jesus on toast anyone?

 

[LoveDivine]

I don't believe in the supernatural. Never seen anything that was supernatural, can't acknowledge its existence based on testimony since people can always lie or be crazy. No offense to people who feel that they have witnessed true miracles, but a lot of times it is just a coincidence, and there have been a lot of things that people believe are miracles that even people who believe in God know to be false/silly. Jesus on toast anyone?

I understand your skepticism. I believe in the divinity of Christ and in miracles, but I don't believe every person's account of supernatural occurrences. Personal testimony is often the weakest argument for miracles. Unless you really know a person's character and mental stability it is difficult to trust his claim. I agree that many supposed miracles are false/silly.

I do think that the concept of miracles is not illogical if you can accept the existence of a divine being. I would define a miracle as an interruption or reversal of the natural order of events. I believe that God created the universe and the laws of nature. I don't see it as a stretch that He could also have the power to intervene and alter the course of nature in specific instances. I do not believe in the supernatural apart from the power/will of God. I have never believed in aliens/UFO's, etc.

I also realize that every person has to become convinced of the reality of God within his own mind/soul before he can truly believe. That is a personal journey. You can't be coerced or pressured into that belief. Sure, Christians can provide verses or arguments to support the claims for an all powerful God, but those arguments only affect a person's intellect. It is through a spiritual awakening that a person begins to understand these concepts. This is stated in Matthew 16:17. Jesus asked his disciples who they thought He was (there were many differing theories among the multitudes). Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you Simon Barjona (Peter), for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father which is in heaven." I think if you are skeptical but open to the concept of the existence of God, the best advice would be to seek Him. Christ will reveal himself to anyone that desires to find Him. A person doesn't have to have all the answers or even be sure that He is God.

 

[Messy]

"Most of the problems of society are due to a rejection of his teachings".

Exactly, which bears some profound relevance to many of his teachings that Paul summarised as "the love of money (being) THE root of ALL evil."

This phrase Paul used rests heavily on and emphasises Jesus' "no one can serve 2 masters" teaching, as well as how our lord wanted us to not only talk about love but to show it's outpouring into an economic reality when he revealed to us what it means to "love your neighbor as yourself"----

"$ell all that you own and give the proceeds to the poor..." (Luke: 11, 12, 14----note: none of these passages make any reference to any particularly rich individuals.)

You mean He meant you have to sell your house and may not rent an apartment, let your kids sleep in the open air and give everything away? In Acts there were those that had houses and sold them, they had everything in common, but I don't believe that someone who had 4 houses sold all 4 and gave the money to the poor and let his family sleep out in the open with no food or clothes or anything, sorry guys, had to sell the clothes, Jesus said sell everything, since if you don't care about your family you're worse than an infidel.
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition

Hmm, it doesn't say a house, but it's a lot warmer over there.

 

[Gospelutionary]

Messy--

When you speak of families sleeping out in the streets, which families are you referring to? Those who already sleep out in the open all over the world due to increasingly hostile economic conditions forced upon them by the rich in this world?

And when you deride & ridicule Jesus (since those are his words/teachings, not mine) about commanding his followers to sell all they own don't you realize that trying to use scripture to argue that he is teaching people how to be "worse than infidels" is something he already addressed?

"Fear not, little flock..."

 

[Messy]

Messy--

When you speak of families sleeping out in the streets, which families are you referring to? Those who already sleep out in the open all over the world due to increasingly hostile economic conditions forced upon them by the rich in this world?

And when you deride & ridicule Jesus (since those are his words/teachings, not mine) about commanding his followers to sell all they own don't you realize that trying to use scripture to argue that he is teaching people how to be "worse than infidels" is something he already addressed?

"Fear not, little flock..."

I just said He couldn't have meant that everyone had to become poor as some say. They learned that from buddhist monks that that was holy.
The apostles gave up their job because they were in the ministry full time and then God provides if He ask you to do that. That doesn't mean everyone should quit their job.
There were rich women that followed Him and they gave them money.

 

[Chris B]

The Spirit of God moved me the other day
So, atheists, here I am to drop the key at your feet...

Well, something did. You have your belief and interpretation of experiences, and as an atheist I have mine.
An awful lot of things can produce a "heart strangely warmed".

You can start with just a little bit of research,

I've done quite a lot more than a bit. How do you think I got to be an atheist?

"Sell all your material possessions, and give the money to the poor. Make yourselves wallets that don't wear out! Make a treasure for yourselves in heaven that never loses its value! In heaven thieves and moths can't get close enough to destroy your treasure." (Luke 12:33, Luke 14:33, Acts 2:45, & 4:34-35; James 5:1-3)

And this is just the beginning!! Have a look for yourselves at the "red letters" to see how many more of these completely revolutionary "bombs" that Jesus dropped on the institutional churches of his time.

If you look but don't think you've struck on another powerful teaching/command for his followers, I'm happy to share many more!

Oh, I think there are lots of bible verses and passages that many in the Christian church should be more aware of, and that are rarely if ever chosen for the source of sermons.
Money and wealth are obvious topics...
I've never heard a sermon on Acts 4:32,34-35.
"And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need."

I can almost imagine Republican Christians exploding in the aisles...
(Yes, I know it's not as simple as that, but careful handling of context and historical setting doesn't often trouble such when they get hold of a verse or passage that they DO like.)

"Iron chariots" has circulated pretty well, by now.

But if I were to take a text to preach on from the bible, I think "Arise, let us be going" or "He said to her, "Get up and let us go," (NASB) would serve quite well.
There are quite a few "Arise and..." passages in the bible, and a quick search clearly reveals which are the popular ones. Judges 19:28 isn't one of them.

Expand that into its context, and illustrate it with what some of the classic Christian commentators have said concerning the story (or studiously avoided saying), and you'd have something.

Chris