At least 4 people were killed in a Tulsa, Oklahoma, hospital campus shooting, police say

[rambot]

Guns by themselves are not the problem. But guns in the hands of angry,demented, and crazy people are a big problem.

Would it make sense to keep guns out of the hands of angry, demented and crazy people?

 

[rambot]

No doctor ever gives any guarantee that things will 100% work. Because there is no guarantee for ANYTHING, there's always a small chance things won't work. That shooter didn't understand that. But also, lots of people have back issues and back surgery that doesn't work, but they don't go murder their doctor and innocent people.

Well it's a good thing he had a gun to protect himself!

 

[RDKirk]

But also, lots of people have back issues and back surgery that doesn't work, but they don't go murder their doctor and innocent people.

I doubt any mass murderer has suffered anything that thousands of other people have not suffered without murdering anyone.

 

[RDKirk]

Would it make sense to keep guns out of the hands of angry, demented and crazy people?

The US has a startlingly high number of angry, demented and crazy people. We could try doing something about that.

It's a known fact that most gun homicides are actually suicides.

And even if we look at the mass shootings...they are intended to be suicides as well. Even when the shooter is well-armed, goes into a "gun-free zone," and may even be wearing body armor, their actions clearly indicate that they don't intend to escape. They expect that at some point will be killed (some who were not killed have been interviewed and confirm that). They are geared up to take as many innocent people with them as possible, but they still expect to die that day.

But for every angry, demented and crazy person in the US that commits suicide or a mass shooting, there are thousands more who become addicts or spouse abusers or child abusers, or go down some other road...and the US suffers more from having so many angry, demented and crazy people than other industrialized Western people.

But nobody wants to find out why and what we can do to reduce that. We are happy with our social Darwinism.

 

[Whyayeman]

But nobody wants to find out why and what we can do to reduce that. We are happy with our social Darwinism.

[My bolding]

I'm not sure about that. From here it looks as though a very large proportion of Americans are really unhappy about the epidemic of child slaughter in American schools, even among the gun-happy NRA types.

The solution is staring everybody in the face. Proper, rigorous background checks that went some way beyond instant access to police records; preventing teenagers from buying semi-automatic weapons; these would be a small beginning.

 

[Skye1300]

Let's cut to the chase and invoke Godwin's Law straight away.

Hitler was famously a vegetarian. (Just saying.)

No, that's a myth.

Hitler was far from vegetarian—though there are reasons why people believe he was. According to historian, Robert Payne, in his text The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler, the myth of Hitler’s strict vegetarianism was more or less a PR campaign orchestrated by Hitler’s minister of propaganda Joseph Goebbels. Payne states that,

Hitler’s asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoke nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true…his asceticism was fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self control, the distance that separated him from other men. By this outwards show of aestheticism, he could claim that he was dedicated to the service of his people.1

— Robert Payne, The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler
In reality, Payne writes, Hitler was “remarkably self indulgent and possessed none of the instincts of the aesthetic.”2

Beyond this PR campaign to portray Hitler as a master of self-control, there is some credence to his eschewing of meat at times. In his mind-blowing text Eternal Treblinka: Our treatment of Animals and the Holocaust, author Charles Patterson illuminates some of Hitler’s rather unsightly medical conditions, saying that Hitler “suffered from indigestion and episodic stomach pains that had troubled him from adolescence, as well as from excessive flatulence and uncontrollable sweating…he discovered that when he reduced his meat intake, he did not sweat as much and there were fewer stains in his underwear.”3 He apparently also believed that increasing his vegetable consumption improved the odors of his flatulence.4

Regardless of his conditions, Hitler never gave up his indulgences of his favorite meat dishes—which, according to Dr. Fritz Redlich in his text Diagnosis of a Destructive Prophet, were Bavarian sausages, liver dumplings, and stuffed and roasted game.5

Not only was Hitler not a vegetarian, he was also vehemently against vegetarianism. Patterson writes that,

[when Hitler] came to power in 1933, he banned all the vegetarian societies in Germany, arrested their leaders, and shut down the main vegetarian magazine published in Frankfurt…during the war, Nazi Germany banned all vegetarian organizations in the territories it occupied, even though vegetarian diets would have helped alleviate wartime food shortages.6


— Charles Patterson, Eternal Treblinka: Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust
A huge tenant of veganism—and I’m not talking a vegan diet here, but actual veganism—is compassion towards animals. Hitler’s treatment of animals was much like his treatment of humans: abrasive, abusive, and cruel. Hitler would often carry around a dog-whip and viciously beat his dog in public.7Biographer Ian Kershaw writes that “with his dogs, as with every human being, he came into contact with, any relationship was based upon subordination to his mastery.”8

Hitler based his entire treatment of the Jews on the assembly line slaughterhouses of the United States; he idolized Henry Ford,9 whose inspiration for his revolutionary assembly line system came from visiting a Chicago slaughterhouse as a young man.10 Hitler essentially built his own assembly line slaughterhouses, replacing the animals with human beings. As Gary Yourofsky says, if you walk into any slaughterhouse today, remove the animals and replace them with people, you have recreated Dachau and Auschwitz.

As you can see, Hitler was as far from a vegetarian as you can get.

Was Hitler a Vegetarian?

 

[rambot]

The US has a startlingly high number of angry, demented and crazy people. We could try doing something about that.

It's a known fact that most gun homicides are actually suicides.

1. Not to be a pedantic oaf but I think you'd mean "most gun DEATHS are actually suicides".
2. While it APPEARS there is a "high number of angry demented and crazy people" in the US, until I see data that compares the US to other jurisdictions, I can't really use that as a reason for the US situation.

And yes. In fact, the FAR VAST majority of those deaths are young men. They choose it because men (around suicide) tend to choose far more definitive methods than women (who tend to opt for ODs or cuts). So gun control would ALMOST DEFINITELY have a positive affect on suicide outcomes for young men. That would be a good thing.

As someone who has taken suicide prevention courses several times, I'll tell you that someone who is suicidal is not NECESSARILY super inclined to first go out and GET a gun. They tend to use what is available OR easily available to them.

And even if we look at the mass shootings...they are intended to be suicides as well. Even when the shooter is well-armed, goes into a "gun-free zone," and may even be wearing body armor, their actions clearly indicate that they don't intend to escape. They expect that at some point will be killed (some who were not killed have been interviewed and confirm that). They are geared up to take as many innocent people with them as possible, but they still expect to die that day.

That is a false equivalency and frankly, not really important. The fact that they PLAN to die, doesn't mean that is the INTENT of their actions....it would just be a side outcome they don't care about (this is ABSOLUTELY not the same as the ideation around a suicidal person).

Also, body armour is not necessarily a sign that they want to commit suicide at all. In fact, perhaps they hope to NOT die at all.

Ultimately, this seems like kind of a weird situation to delineate. Regardless of whether this dude wnats to commit suicide, he has a weapon in his hand that is designed to KILL EFFICIENTLY and his intention is to kill innocent people.

But for every angry, demented and crazy person in the US that commits suicide or a mass shooting, there are thousands more who become addicts or spouse abusers or child abusers, or go down some other road...and the US suffers more from having so many angry, demented and crazy people than other industrialized Western people.

But nobody wants to find out why and what we can do to reduce that. We are happy with our social Darwinism.

Poverty is the strongest correlation amongst ALL of those listed tragedies.

As more people get more (or put into situations that threaten poverty) there's gonna be an increase in gun violence for sure.




ps...if it IS a mental health issue, has has been bandied about, and if GOP believes that, why would Abbot cut 210 million from mental health in Texas?

 

[Whyayeman]

No, that's a myth.

Hitler was far from vegetarian—though there are reasons why people believe he was. According to historian, Robert Payne, in his text The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler, the myth of Hitler’s strict vegetarianism was more or less a PR campaign orchestrated by Hitler’s minister of propaganda Joseph Goebbels. Payne states that,

Hitler’s asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoke nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true…his asceticism was fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self control, the distance that separated him from other men. By this outwards show of aestheticism, he could claim that he was dedicated to the service of his people.1

— Robert Payne, The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler
In reality, Payne writes, Hitler was “remarkably self indulgent and possessed none of the instincts of the aesthetic.”2

Beyond this PR campaign to portray Hitler as a master of self-control, there is some credence to his eschewing of meat at times. In his mind-blowing text Eternal Treblinka: Our treatment of Animals and the Holocaust, author Charles Patterson illuminates some of Hitler’s rather unsightly medical conditions, saying that Hitler “suffered from indigestion and episodic stomach pains that had troubled him from adolescence, as well as from excessive flatulence and uncontrollable sweating…he discovered that when he reduced his meat intake, he did not sweat as much and there were fewer stains in his underwear.”3 He apparently also believed that increasing his vegetable consumption improved the odors of his flatulence.4

Regardless of his conditions, Hitler never gave up his indulgences of his favorite meat dishes—which, according to Dr. Fritz Redlich in his text Diagnosis of a Destructive Prophet, were Bavarian sausages, liver dumplings, and stuffed and roasted game.5

Not only was Hitler not a vegetarian, he was also vehemently against vegetarianism. Patterson writes that,

[when Hitler] came to power in 1933, he banned all the vegetarian societies in Germany, arrested their leaders, and shut down the main vegetarian magazine published in Frankfurt…during the war, Nazi Germany banned all vegetarian organizations in the territories it occupied, even though vegetarian diets would have helped alleviate wartime food shortages.6


— Charles Patterson, Eternal Treblinka: Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust
A huge tenant of veganism—and I’m not talking a vegan diet here, but actual veganism—is compassion towards animals. Hitler’s treatment of animals was much like his treatment of humans: abrasive, abusive, and cruel. Hitler would often carry around a dog-whip and viciously beat his dog in public.7Biographer Ian Kershaw writes that “with his dogs, as with every human being, he came into contact with, any relationship was based upon subordination to his mastery.”8

Hitler based his entire treatment of the Jews on the assembly line slaughterhouses of the United States; he idolized Henry Ford,9 whose inspiration for his revolutionary assembly line system came from visiting a Chicago slaughterhouse as a young man.10 Hitler essentially built his own assembly line slaughterhouses, replacing the animals with human beings. As Gary Yourofsky says, if you walk into any slaughterhouse today, remove the animals and replace them with people, you have recreated Dachau and Auschwitz.

As you can see, Hitler was as far from a vegetarian as you can get.

Was Hitler a Vegetarian?

That was fun!