Ashamed...

[Kit Sigmon]

I think it be real sad that people won't forgive other people who have wronged them...holding on to old wounds will never make things rights nor will it bring the person holding the grudge any peace, it won't profit them at all and what's worse is that they mindset/words negatively impacts others.
I believe this is why in scripture it tells us to should choose our friends carefully, because the way of the wicked will lead you astray. Read: Proverbs 12:26.

 

[John Davidson]

I'm not sure whether that's meant to be sarcastic or not.

No its not sarcastic. Over the centuries there have been many noble Christians.

There is no reason to be ashamed of the faith.

 

[PeachyKeane]

No its not sarcastic. Over the centuries there have been many noble Christians.

There is no reason to be ashamed of the faith.

A quick google of Franklin Graham tells me that he is for a religious test for entry into the United States.

I can't agree to that. I think that is awfully shameful.

 

[John Davidson]

A quick google of Franklin Graham tells me that he is for a religious test for entry into the United States.

I can't agree to that. I think that is awfully shameful.

If I googled "purple elephants that fly" I would find that they exist as well.

The ministry of Reverends Billy and Franklin Graham has been monumental.

 

[PeachyKeane]

If I googled "purple elephants that fly" I would find that they exist as well.

Okay, but all I googled was "Franklin Graham", and it was four of the top 10 items. I barely knew who he was previously.

 

[John Davidson]

Okay, but all I googled was "Franklin Graham", and it was four of the top 10 items. I barely knew who he was previously.

There have been a myriad of faithful servants of Christ over the centuries who have set good examples for us. We certainly have little to be ashamed of.

Just because you found a few wackos on YouTube frankly its meaningless in the whole scope of things.

What about church leaders such as John Wesley, Mother Teresea, Martin Luther, Greg Laurie, Chuck Smith to name a few. These men have been faithful Christians and set good examples.

I sincerely feel that you have a chip on your shoulder.

 

[PeachyKeane]

There have been a myriad of faithful servants of Christ over the centuries who have set good examples for us. We certainly have little to be ashamed of.

Just because you found a few wackos on YouTube frankly its meaningless in the whole scope of things.

Here's the thing: I didn't find them. Others found them, and are going to make judgments about me because of them.

And we can't say that a few wackos are meaningless while our "heroes" are telling us to judge people of other religions by their "meaningless wackos". Can we?

What about church leaders such as John Wesley, Mother Teresea, Martin Luther, Greg Laurie, Chuck Smith to name a few. These men have been faithful Christians and set good examples.

Maybe. But it seems hypocritical to say "look at all the good Christians. Just ignore all the bad ones." Doesn't it?

I sincerely feel that you have a chip on your shoulder.

I do. I understand how my friends feel hurt by Christians because I have been hurt by Christians.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

What about forgiveness?
In the bible Jesus forgave those who nailed him to the cross...Stephen when he was being stoned, forgave those who were doing the stoning...forgive those who have wronged you. Our role model is Jesus not the ones who are acting contrary to Jesus' teachings and examples.

 

[PeachyKeane]

What about forgiveness?
In the bible Jesus forgave those who nailed him to the cross...Stephen when he was being stoned, forgave those who were doing the stoning...forgive those who have wronged you. Our role model is Jesus not the ones who are acting contrary to Jesus' teachings and examples.

And maybe, just maybe I will be able to. It won't change that I have been hurt, and continue to be hurt. Jesus forgave but was still crucified. Stephen forgave but was still stoned. Even if I can forgive others for what they do to me, and others may forgive what has been done to them, but it won't change that it's been done, and won't stop them from doing it again.

 

[John Davidson]

Here's the thing: I didn't find them. Others found them, and are going to make judgments about me because of them.

And we can't say that a few wackos are meaningless while our "heroes" are telling us to judge people of other religions by their "meaningless wackos". Can we?



Maybe. But it seems hypocritical to say "look at all the good Christians. Just ignore all the bad ones." Doesn't it?



I do. I understand how my friends feel hurt by Christians because I have been hurt by Christians.

Jesus told the parable of the wheat and the tares. The ungodly will always be found among the godly.

There will always be wolves in sheep's clothing. You cannot judge the entire church because of them.

 

[graceandpeace]

I suppose.

I think what I'm feeling is that I'm ashamed to be associated with the most visible Christians. And then I'm ashamed that I'm ashamed of that.

Here's the thing: I didn't find them. Others found them, and are going to make judgments about me because of them.

And we can't say that a few wackos are meaningless while our "heroes" are telling us to judge people of other religions by their "meaningless wackos". Can we?



Maybe. But it seems hypocritical to say "look at all the good Christians. Just ignore all the bad ones." Doesn't it?



I do. I understand how my friends feel hurt by Christians because I have been hurt by Christians.

I understand what you're saying.

I don't think you should feel ashamed for being upset about the poor Christian examples that often dominate media & interest in the US. Those poor examples upset me, too.

I get that it's frustrating - the idea that if you say, "I'm a Christian," people will assume you, too subscribe to bad theology, faux-science, hate for LGBT people, among other things. If you decide to tell others you're a Christian, you can choose to show another way of living the faith, a better way. Really, that's all you can do.

 

[aiki]

o on the one hand, I deal every day with the shame that I am very privately Christian. That I will not stand up for Christ and do count myself among His children only when it's convenient.

Then, I feel the shame that I am associated with some of these people who say these things. I do not want my friends and family to feel that I have rejected them, betrayed them, or turned on them. I love these people, and even though I am separated from them by geography we are all still quite close. I do not want them to think that I love them any less than I did before, or that I judge them, or reject them. But I know that many of them will, at least initially, feel that way.

Then, I do not want my friends to think the worst of Christians, or Christ, or to think that these people represent Christ's values, teachings or love.

Finally, I don't want to throw these Christians under the bus, as much as I disagree with them. I'm new at this, and don't think I can do that.

Anyway, I'm just curious what people think.

I don't know that it really matters much what we think. What really matters is what God thinks:

Proverbs 29:25
25 The fear of man brings a snare, But whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe.

Matthew 10:34-39
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

The declaration of God is that we are all morally sick (Ro. 3:10, 23). Actually, in the view of the perfectly holy God of the universe, every one of us is a foul, wicked, rebellious sinner deserving of eternal punishment in hell. Kinda' judgmental, don't you think? But true, nonetheless. And just as it is wrong for a doctor to keep the awful truth of terminal cancer from his patient, it is equally wrong for us who know the truth of the sinner's eternal jeopardy to remain silent - especially when those sinners are our friends and family.

2 Corinthians 4:3
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

What is more important to you?: remaining in the good graces of your friends and family, or being an ambassador for Christ? You can't do both. You can't honor Christ and hide him from those whose eternal destiny depends on knowing and yielding to him.

Christianity is not defined by those in its ranks (or who, at least, claim to be in its ranks) who misuse and misrepresent the faith. Jesus is the core, the center, the divine and defining icon of the Christian faith, not the shrill, ugly human caricatures of Christianity that can be found at every turn. If you want to know, really know, what Mozart's musical genius is like, do you listen to a sixth-grade band playing his stuff? Or do you find the best philharmonic orchestra you can and listen to their masterful rendition of his work? Which musical effort best represents the truth of Mozart's genius? In the same way, a person who is genuinely interested in understanding Christianity doesn't look for the worst representation of it, but the best. And the best representation possible is found in Christ himself. Your friend's efforts to misrepresent Christianity by displaying the worst examples of it he can find speak of his deep and antagonistic bias against the faith. It seems pretty clear to me he doesn't want to really see or understand Christianity. Such antagonism can't be overcome by reason or argument. God must do something; His truth must penetrate the heart of your friend. Is God free to use you to touch the heart of your friend with his life-saving truth? Or will you keep the peace with your friends and family while they continue on their way to God's eternal judgment?

Selah.

 

[Sketcher]

I go to a church now that I think is great. The people are kind and intelligent. It's not the kind of church that is given over to groupthink and emotional appeal, but encourages intelligence. The problem is that these friends are either on the other side of the country, or the other side of the world. It's difficult to show them.

Ah, yes.

Does your church post anything online that you could occasionally share on Facebook? Sermons, blog posts by the pastor or another leader that you know well and respect, etc?

 

[grandvizier1006]

I'm sorry you're in this precarious position. I don't have much advice other than to spend time in dialogue with your resentful friends. Study some Christian apologetics works--they tend to deal with the existence of God and alleged Bible contradictions, but you might find some to convince your friends that Christianity, Christian society, etc., was not and is not this horrible regime or whatever.

The shame is something you'll have to pray about. Pray that God will help you get rid of that and replace it with confidence. Read the New Testament, it has many examples of people not being ashamed of Christ even though renouncing it would have meant their lives would be spared.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

This may come off as stream of consciousness, so bear with me.

I found Christ just a little over a year ago. I am still something of a closet-Christian, and I'm ashamed of this. However, beat with me:

Most of my friends from my childhood are Jewish as I grew up in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood. My family is a mix of Catholic, agnostic and atheist. Many of my friends closest friends today are Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, atheist, LGBTQ, and even a Buddhist for good measure.

So here's where I'm torn:

This past week one of my good friends, an atheist, posted on Facebook a sermon from a pastor of a white Christian church explaining to his flock that "the blacks have turned from God [...and...] rebel after we introduced them to Him."

The next day he presented a video from another Christian pastor who, while brandishing a gun, claims that even though he loves Jesus he will still shoot anyone who shoots a cop.

Then the next day he posted a video and transcript of a particular politician suggesting that white Christians are responsible for "Civilization" and that no other "sub-group" contributed.

In each case I wanted to respond and say something, but found I could not. I didn't want to "out" myself.

This same friend was raised in a Christian home, but was rejected and disowned by his father, a pastor, because of a crisis of faith. That crisis became a full-blown loss of faith, and now he's an atheist with a grudge against Christians.

And he's not the only one of my friends with such a grudge. I find all of my LGBTQ friends have serious issues with Christians. Many of the others feel very aggressive toward Christians, feeling looked down on, rejected and hated.

And while I think that's unfair, I also completely understand it. I know exactly why they feel that way. Before I found Christ, I used to feel that way. Even while looking for a church, I attended one that condemned Muslims as terrorists wholesale, and kept referring to a "war" between Muslims and Christians. I attended another that called atheists and agnostics murderers, and condemned their families and friends for allowing them to be one. In those cases, I also felt rejected and hated by Christians and I was one!

So on the one hand, I deal every day with the shame that I am very privately Christian. That I will not stand up for Christ and do count myself among His children only when it's convenient.

Then, I feel the shame that I am associated with some of these people who say these things. I do not want my friends and family to feel that I have rejected them, betrayed them, or turned on them. I love these people, and even though I am separated from them by geography we are all still quite close. I do not want them to think that I love them any less than I did before, or that I judge them, or reject them. But I know that many of them will, at least initially, feel that way.

Then, I do not want my friends to think the worst of Christians, or Christ, or to think that these people represent Christ's values, teachings or love.

Finally, I don't want to throw these Christians under the bus, as much as I disagree with them. I'm new at this, and don't think I can do that.

Anyway, I'm just curious what people think.

I think it is a learning process. Not every Christian is instantly a bold evangelist. Just remain open to the Holy Spirit, ask Him to help you grow in the areas you feel you are lacking. You don't always need to confront your friends either, maybe just occasionally post something on your face book that you find good about God, and pray for your friends.