Apostacy...

[JuJube]

2 Thes. 2:3
Is this by any chance what we see in our main stream churches today? Becoming politically correct , or will it be the outright dening of Jesus's deity... and we're seeing both, aren't we in the main stream church? Also, how does it fit into the time line of end time events? Pretty broad question, but I would appreciate anyone's input. I think talking about the endtimes is an encouragement...and I need some! Come Lord Jesus, come! How close do some here think we are?

 

[Zadok7000]

The falling away cannot happen until the False Christ is here de facto. In other words, it hasn't happened yet.

 

[JuJube]

The falling away cannot happen until the False Christ is here de facto. In other words, it hasn't happened yet.

Any ideas of what the great falling away will (may) be?

 

[garry2]

2 Thes. 2:3
Is this by any chance what we see in our main stream churches today? Becoming politically correct , or will it be the outright dening of Jesus's deity... and we're seeing both, aren't we in the main stream church? Also, how does it fit into the time line of end time events? Pretty broad question, but I would appreciate anyone's input. I think talking about the endtimes is an encouragement...and I need some! Come Lord Jesus, come! How close do some here think we are?

I think we are very close to endtime events which will lead up to the return of Jesus. We have wars and rumors of wars in the middle east, and at the same time we have many bodies trying to bring about a peace deal between Israel and the arab countries, (usa un eu russia arab nations etc.)
Im with you "come Lord Jesus"

 

[Zadok7000]

Any ideas of what the great falling away will (may) be?

The worshipping of the false christ as the True.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[brother daniel]

To whom is Paul speaking in 2 Thes. 2? What is the context? Is this not a letter first addressed to those first-century brethren in first-century Thessalonica? Why did Paul write this letter? What did his words mean to those who first read/heard them?​

Paul says "Now, BRETHREN, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and OUR gathering together to Him, we ask YOU, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, . . . as though the day of Christ is come. Let no one deceive YOU by any means; for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed . . . . " (2 Thes. 2:1-4).​

THEY were not to be deceived. Why was it possible for them to be deceived? Because Christ's coming was correctly expected in their day! Notice that THEY knew what was restraining--it was in their day!​

Many are deceived today--expecting that which has already occurred!​

Parousia​

Let us look at what we are talking about here.
The Great Apostasy is a disparaging term used by some religious groups to allege a general fallen state of traditional Christianity, or especially of Catholicism, magisterial Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy, that it is not representative of the faith founded by Jesus and promulgated through his twelve Apostles: in short, that these churches have fallen into apostasy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Apostasy

This article from wickapedia seems to address the great falling away as it appears to me.

Apostasy is generally not a self-definition: very few former believers call themselves apostates and they generally consider this term to be a pejorative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy

according to scripture this great apostasy is to happen before the man of sin is revealed

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The worshipping of the false christ as the True.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Well, since only a Priest or High Priest can enter the Sanctuary, I will know when the "Jews" elect one, that will be the one.

2 thess 3:3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because--if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed--the son of the destruction, 4 who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary/naon <3485> of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God--[the day doth not come].

http://www.christianforums.com/t4629874-what-about-the-court-in-revelation-112.html

Reve 11:2 and, the Court/Palace [Court of High Priest/Altar of Burnt Offerings?] the one without the Sanctuary[#3485], be you Casting Out!! [#1544 ek-bale] out-side,[exw #1854] and you should not be measuring,

 

[Zadok7000]

Well, since only a Priest or High Priest can enter the Sanctuary, I will know when the "Jews" elect one, that will be the one.

WE are the temple of God. Worshipping the false christ as the True puts him "in the temple".

 

[IamAdopted]

we can see in scripture even Paul seeing this happen already. Many coming to preach a different gospel. This has been happening from the very early. Look at Judas.

 

[Covenant Heart]

Since The Beginning:

Take the rebellion of Korah.

Speaking only for myself, I suspect that the confessing church (especially in North America) has lapsed into massive apostasy. We rattle off phrases like "Christ's deity," but we refuse to follow Christ as his presence in the world. We give lip service to the incarnation, but swallow hook, line and sinker the Gnostic heresy that we are a "spiritual" body. Even in Holy Week, even as the Church worldwide remembers the passion of Christ--we JUST DON'T GET IT! Do this--and Remember! God forbid that we understand this to mean that we must actually follow Christ in confronting the powers of darkness even to the point of death! We push the theology of the Revelation into the future so that we can join the world and still claim salvation.

We profess that Christ is Lord of all, but we overlay upon the theology of the cross the heretical ideologies of the right and the left. We say that Christ is the ONLY way of salvation, but we wonder if the imperial policies of the United Empire of America may not have salvific import.

Where are the churches where this is thundered? When will the church confess her sins? When will the church lead the nation and the world in the recognition of what Christ's incarnation means? Instead, we regard those who affirm truth to be heretics. Everywhere you look, you see three things--lip service, lip service and lip service. What is the point of apostacy when the church doesn't know squat about the meaning of the incarnation?

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

 

[Parousia]

To whom is Paul speaking in 2 Thes. 2? What is the context? Is this not a letter first addressed to those first-century brethren in first-century Thessalonica? Why did Paul write this letter? What did his words mean to those who first read/heard them?

Paul says &quot;Now, BRETHREN, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and OUR gathering together to Him, we ask YOU, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, . . . as though the day of Christ is come. Let no one deceive YOU by any means; for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed . . . . &quot; (2 Thes. 2:1-4).

THEY were not to be deceived. Why was it possible for them to be deceived? Because Christ's coming was correctly expected in their day! Notice that THEY knew what was restraining--it was in their day!

Many are deceived today--expecting that which has already occurred!

Parousia

Any ideas of what the great falling away will (may) be?

​

 

[brother daniel]

To whom is Paul speaking in 2 Thes. 2? What is the context? Is this not a letter first addressed to those first-century brethren in first-century Thessalonica? Why did Paul write this letter? What did his words mean to those who first read/heard them?

Paul says &quot;Now, BRETHREN, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and OUR gathering together to Him, we ask YOU, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, . . . as though the day of Christ is come. Let no one deceive YOU by any means; for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed . . . . &quot; (2 Thes. 2:1-4).

THEY were not to be deceived. Why was it possible for them to be deceived? Because Christ's coming was correctly expected in their day! Notice that THEY knew what was restraining--it was in their day!

Many are deceived today--expecting that which has already occurred!

It was the Holy Ghost speaking through Paul to disciples of Jesus then and now.

Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever and he says his words are not his but his Father who sent him.

The man of sin or son of perdition has yet to be identified
even if guessers today say Nero was that person, that cannot be substantiated by the writings of the early church fathers.

Concerned disciples have been raising up the warning concerning apostasy or a long time. However the falling away from faith in Christ has been great in modern Europe and the United States.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[JuJube]

It was the Holy Ghost speaking through Paul to disciples of Jesus then and now.

Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever and he says his words are not his but his Father who sent him.

The man of sin or son of perdition has yet to be identified
even if guessers today say Nero was that person, that cannot be substantiated by the writings of the early church fathers.

Concerned disciples have been raising up the warning concerning apostasy or a long time. However the falling away from faith in Christ has been great in modern Europe and the United States.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

Is the apostacy the denial of the death and the resurrection of Jesus, or does it go futher that that. Denying the deity of Christ, or the condoning of sin within the church, or preaching a watered down gospel. What is it? Could you give me some examples.

 

[thiefinthenight]

Is the apostacy the denial of the death and the resurrection of Jesus, or does it go futher that that. Denying the deity of Christ, or the condoning of sin within the church, or preaching a watered down gospel. What is it? Could you give me some examples.

Yes! All of the above. The meaning of the greek word apostasia means to fall away from faith in something.
Its use in the greek LXX is to fall away from ones faith in God.

In the last days this is a mass turning from faith in Christ to a religion that 'tickles the ears' of those 'who refuse to love the truth and so be saved'!

It is those who are buying into the lie of 'peace and safety'... When the tribulation comes and the church remains, they will be offended...embrace the anti-christs lies, and turn from faith in Christ.

When sin ripens to it's fullest expression durring the tribulation, many will give up thier 'cross' to indulge their lusts...conscience's seared they will no longer want to, or be able to respond to the Holy Spirit.

God bless!!!!!!!!!

 

[StevenL]

This scriptural apostasy took place thousands of years ago and is still in existence. It's not yet to come.

 

[thiefinthenight]

This scriptural apostasy took place thousands of years ago and is still in existence. It's not yet to come.

Only in part! It is ongoing even now, but it's fullest expression is soon to come, as the end of this age reaches it's climax in the last 7 years...ie. the tribulation.

God Bless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[scandinavian19]

There has been a subtle growing trend in the erosion of doctrinal teaching in today’s church. This shift has been slow and rather methodical in its approach albeit in some cases non intentional as the outcome has certainly become evident.

However, other cases exist where doctrinal subterfuge and premeditated motives are not only known but practiced. In fact many within the church have already acclimated to these messages. The implication and inferences to what is presently being taught across the pulpit today may have a residual unseen side effect but can bring a degree of separation from a known foundation.

The metaphor below reflects a type of consequence resulting from a slight deviation from the original plan. The flight plan from Korean Airline Flight 007 was from Anchorage to Seoul and was shot down over the Soviet Union when it deviated from course.The consensus was that overconfidence and carelessness allowed a simple navigation error to go undetected. It only took one degree from the original flight path of the airplane to veer off course which inevitably led to its ruin, as is not adhering to sound doctrine.

Warning signs are ample throughout the New Testament as evident when Paul writes to Timothy to be on guard, lookout, and watch after the doctrine that he has been entrusted with and avoid empty knowledge of man who profess to be wise but foolish with idle chatter of which some have strayed. I Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"-- 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.

Some of these messages are obscure and clouded within other biblical teachings and are dangerous because it has no line of demarcation where false doctrine is finely interwoven (like a piece of fabric where one thread at a first glance appears like the other) into messages then presented as truth.

The danger is not sifting thoroughly through these messages without appearing to be judgmental but approaching them in love and understanding.

Christians should be like the Bereans and examine the message.

Acts 17: 10: “The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.”

We are to give an account with gentleness, and the defense of the gospel.
1 Peter 3:15 - but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

Christians are called to be not ashamed of accurately handling the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:15 - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

Christians are charged to the defense of the gospel.
Philippians 1:16 - the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;

Finally, contend earnestly for the faith.
Jude 1:3 “ Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.”

 

[StevenL]

Only in part! It is ongoing even now, but it's fullest expression is soon to come, as the end of this age reaches it's climax in the last 7 years...ie. the tribulation.

God Bless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Scriptures told of a "seven-year tribulation" at the end of this age, I'd be in full agreement with you.

 

[garry2]

Only in part! It is ongoing even now, but it's fullest expression is soon to come, as the end of this age reaches it's climax in the last 7 years...ie. the tribulation.

God Bless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is my belief also.

 

[Zadok7000]

People, why do you insist on separating the man of sin from the great falling away? It is not the text, and is a myth. It has NOT happened in the past, and is NOT happening now. It is contingent upon the False Christ's arrival.