Anyone Else Thinks Having A Family Sounds A Little Depressing?

[MacFall]

Is there an absolute duty for the individual (the individual, mark you, not humanity as a whole) to procreate?

There is a biblical commandment. The very first one, in fact.

And I don't see how a recreational activity like skydiving could possibly be compared to parenthood, which is something for which we are designed, and towards which our strongest physical drives are directed, and which is the surest way to ensure that our values continue after our deaths. There are individuals who should not have children, but they are the exception, not the rule. The fact is that we were created to have children. If a person has a purpose in life which excludes child-rearing, then it would have to be a very specific and clear purpose; not just some feeling of "I don't wanna".

 

[Fenny the Fox]

There is a biblical commandment. The very first one, in fact.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it."
-Gen 1:28

I believe we have already fulfilled that mandate, quite well.

 

[MacFall]

Then I expect God to change our biology to reflect the fact.

Aaaaaaany time now.

 

[KingCrimson250]

There is a biblical commandment. The very first one, in fact.

The Bible records God giving a commandment to people when the planet was unpopulated. You'd have to do some pretty intricate hermeneutical gymnastics if you wanted to apply that to everyone, everywhere - especially since God gives the same commandment again after the flood, which suggests that it's not a mandate for mankind to procreate for the sake of procreating, but rather to fill an empty planet.

 

[MacFall]

And why do you believe that God wanted to fill the planet in the first place?

 

[KingCrimson250]

Don't ask me, I'm not Him. I doubt that it could be boiled down to a single reason, though, unless if it was something horrifically vague like "for His glory," which might be an accurate answer, but isn't terribly helpful

 

[MacFall]

It's pretty clear to me that's it's tied to the second commandment in that statement: to subdue the earth.

The human mind is the greatest creative force in the natural world, because that is the way it was designed; and human life has inherent, God-given value. We can better fulfill the commandment to subdue the earth with more people contributing their creativity, energy, and care for their fellow humans than with less. Agriculture took a division of labor consisting of hundreds of thousands of people; industry took millions; information technology took billions. Somewhere in the mass of yet unborn humanity is the cure for cancer, the way to turn pollution into fuel, and the seeds of many intellectual and spiritual revivals.

That fact is not sufficient to create a universal commandment for each and every person to procreate, but it is descriptive of the purpose of the human race, of which procreation is a necessary part. For a person not to participate in that purpose, they must have some other, necessarily definable purpose.

I also would point out that the misanthropic attitude towards children runs full-force and head-on against the plain attitude that God has towards children all throughout the scriptures, and especially in the New Testament. One can only view family as depressing if one utterly fails to recognize how God views children: as completely, invaluably precious and wonderful things. It ignores the inherent value of human life. You say that family is depressing; I say that's one of the saddest things I have ever heard come from a Christian.

 

[KingCrimson250]

It's pretty clear to me that's it's tied to the second commandment in that statement: to subdue the earth.

The human mind is the greatest creative force in the natural world, because that is the way it was designed; and human life has inherent, God-given value. We can better fulfill the commandment to subdue the earth with more people contributing their creativity, energy, and care for their fellow humans than with less. Agriculture took a division of labor consisting of hundreds of thousands of people; industry took millions; information technology took billions. Somewhere in the mass of yet unborn humanity is the cure for cancer, the way to turn pollution into fuel, and the seeds of many intellectual and spiritual revivals.

That fact is not sufficient to create a universal commandment for each and every person to procreate, but it is descriptive of the purpose of the human race, of which procreation is a necessary part. For a person not to participate in that purpose, they must have some other, necessarily definable purpose.

Well yes, but that's kind of my whole point. As 127 stated, it seems like a constant, churning tide of potential that is never reached. Each generation is forced to turn its attention to the next before it is able to truly impact the world. You may argue, certainly, that many of the great innovations have come from people with families. That is true, however, how many of these great men and women, would you wager, fulfilled the Biblical mandate of making the family one's paramount ministry on earth? Often the opposite seems to be true - their families are treated with indifference, sometimes even neglect, in pursuit of their goals.

I also would point out that the misanthropic attitude towards children runs full-force and head-on against the plain attitude that God has towards children all throughout the scriptures, and especially in the New Testament. One can only view family as depressing if one utterly fails to recognize how God views children: as completely, invaluably precious and wonderful things. It ignores the inherent value of human life. You say that family is depressing; I say that's one of the saddest things I have ever heard come from a Christian.

I would hardly call it misanthropic. I don't find children in general depressing. And I have a question for you: with the money one spends to birth, raise and educate a single child in North America, one could easily provide a future for hundreds - if not thousands - of children in Ethiopia. Which, then, is more ignorant of the inherent value of human life?

 

[Riot Riot Riot]

I remember when I was younger I never wanted to get married or have kids. My parents always told me I'd change my mind as I got older. They were wrong. Over time I've found myself becoming more resistant to having a family, now that I realize even more the problems and difficulties it creates.

EXACTLY.
People tell me this all the time and it drives me up the wall! It's MY decision to not want kids. I most-likely won't be changing my mind ANY time soon. I'm already 23. Most women my age are already getting their minds on family and kids (at least a lot in my area). I wouldn't mind being married, but I do NOT want kids.
Plain and simple.

ITT: people running away from difficulty like little sissy crybabies.

Sure, kids are difficult. But that's not why I don't want them. Plenty of things are difficult: Starting new jobs, learning new things, etc. But I've still done them.
I don't want kids just because they may pose a difficulty. I simply just don't think I would be a proper parent for a small person who needs constant care and attention. I'm just not programmed that way.
Deal with it.

Why is it that when people say they don't want kids (I'm not talking about a word used previously), some of those who do get all weird about it? You want to have kids? Lovely, go find you a mate and make those babies. Leave people alone who don't want them. Not wanting to have children does not make a person weak or bad people. If fact, you have to be kinda strong to go against the societal pressure to have kids.

YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN!
The excuse I always hear is: "But what about carrying on the human race?" Um, HELLO. Have you not SEEN 3rd world countries?! There's PLENTY of children in those countries that don't have families or homes. I think that if 1 person in America chooses not to have kids, the human race will continue to exist.
C'mon, seriously. Be realistic.

 

[Riot Riot Riot]

Also, regarding the "commandment" thing: Is not our GREATEST commandment as Christians this:

Matthew 22:36-40 --“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

And since Christ HIMSELF says that loving God and our neighbors are the GREATEST commandments, then obviously having children is not a requirement of Christians. In fact, I believe it's Paul (or perhaps Peter, I always get them confused) speaks about not being married if you don't have to be. And since, by God's standards, children shouldn't be born outside of wedlock, then I think that this whole point has some weight to it. If you choose not to marry because you are perfectly fine living out your life as a single person, then where's the harm? You're not hurting anyone in any way by living that way.

And also, since you see having children as some duty we are required to fulfill to somehow please God and whatnot, what do you think about the people who choose to stay single for their entire life? For example, the people who decide to dedicate their lives to ministry and missions and choose not to marry (or do marry, but don't have children for the sake of travel/conditions of the countries in which they travel to)?

They don't have children, and yet they are fulfilling the greatest commandment we are given. Are they not pleasing God?

I'm sorry, but if the only reason you can give for people to have children is "God told us to" (which is nowhere specifically stated in the Bible, unless regarding the times of Adam & Eve, and after the flood [which were obviously stated for a reason]), then I'd say you should probably re-evaluate some things.

Either way, I think this thread is becoming an endless loop: Some people don't want kids, some do. Why not just leave it at that and let people live how they choose to?

 

[MacFall]

Well yes, but that's kind of my whole point. As 127 stated, it seems like a constant, churning tide of potential that is never reached.

You could say the same thing about the preaching of the gospel itself. We are commissioned to preach to the whole world, but we know that few people will accept it. The solution, I think, is to focus on one's own life and opportunities. We are not designed, spiritually or psychologically, to worry about the whole world or a whole generation or even a whole community. That's God's job.

You may argue, certainly, that many of the great innovations have come from people with families. That is true, however, how many of these great men and women, would you wager, fulfilled the Biblical mandate of making the family one's paramount ministry on earth?

I don't know, but I don't focus on "great men and women". Each great achievement was enabled by the contributions of others who came before them. And I'm not just talking about Isaac Newton's "shoulders of giants". Nobody pays attention to the comparatively small developments that happen just in the course of regular folks living regular lives, but being good at what they do. They only look at the points at which the cumulative effect of generations of human creativity enable someone to do something that makes for a good story. They look at the tip of the iceberg of history and forget there's anything under it.

I would hardly call it misanthropic. I don't find children in general depressing.

Apparently, you have a misanthropic view of their role in the future of the world if you view it as so pointless as to make it depressing.

And I have a question for you: with the money one spends to birth, raise and educate a single child in North America, one could easily provide a future for hundreds - if not thousands - of children in Ethiopia. Which, then, is more ignorant of the inherent value of human life?

I would say that if someone feels called to do that, then they should. That is one of the good reasons for not having children that I mentioned. But most people are not able to do that. I, personally, have enough of a challenge supporting the people in my own community who need food and medical care.

Furthermore I would say that in general, throwing resources at a problem is not the way to solve it. The problem in Ethiopia, as in much of the Third World, is a social system wherein people prey upon one another through the state. I would prefer to raise a child who will contribute his ideas and his virtue to the world towards a root-striking way of addressing the problem. A hundred minds fighting the corrupt ideas that make such expropriation possible will do far more to end it than a million people enriching the people being expropriated, and consequently, enriching their predators. (Note: I do not mean to suggest that the hungry in those places should not be fed; I only mean that there are other and potentially more effective ways of ending that hunger than simply giving them food.)

 

[Oddish]

Pros:

- Having a child that you can teach, bring to Christ and encourage.
- Companionship.
- Being responsible for another life and being selfless in that respect.

Cons:

- Your money disappears faster
- Your time gets eaten up

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

Basically, do what you feel compelled to regarding kids. You'll find that you're always annoying someone if you try to please everyone. Someone's toes are always ready to be stepped on.

I want to raise kids, but only when I'm ready. I couldn't do that right now. I'm still going through college, my time is focused on grades and work. I'm thinking by my late 20's I'll be ready, but it could be sooner or later than that. That's my plan right now, but its not in set in stone.

 

[Nilloc]

But when someone comes right out and says without qualification that they intend to avoid parenthood because it would be challenging, there doesn't seem to be any way that that could be anything but selfishness.

How on earth is that selfish? I'm not harming anyone (in fact I would stop harm from coming to my theoretical wife, my theoretical children, and myself) and I don’t want kids, so it doesn’t bother me. And even if I did want kids, but wouldn’t because I thought it was too hard, why should that matter? I chose to do what I want; I weigh the consequences the way I see as right, not the way others tell me.

Overcoming difficulty, including those imposed on us by our personal preferences, is what life is all about. Life has no value otherwise.

I won’t waste my life overcoming a difficulty that I have no interest in overcoming; especially when it would simply make things worse for both myself and others.

 

[PDAztec88]

I never thought about that when I had my boys! I know where your coming from defiantly, but when you do have kids and their in your arms I sware to you, you will not be thinking "Why?" you'll know why. Having kids is the most wonderful things in life and raising them up to know God that's what I feel like that's my job in life. I don't really think of them as money sucker even though they kinda are lol, but they bring so much joy in life! They are worth every dime!

 

[K9_Trainer]

There's nothing wrong with not having kids. Its not for everybody, and it definitely doesn't make you selfish in any way, shape or form if you decide not to have them.

Personally, I don't want kids. I don't have the patience and its just not a commitment I want to make. It doesn't mean I'm irresponsible or can't make commitments period. I just have other goals and ideas for my life than being a mother.

Don't let society, family, friends or other Christians especially pressure you into being a sheep and just following the herd. You don't have to have kids to live a fulfilling life or have a purpose. Find the right kind of woman and you won't have to "settle down" and have a family....You can be wild and free and young together and you won't have a family, you'll have a partner. That's my ideal plan at least.

 

[Riot Riot Riot]

Looks like there's no reply to my previous post. Hmm....

Anyways, I was once told by a fellow church-lady, that I am "not a real woman if you don't want or have kids". Wow, thanks for that wonderful encouraging word!!! People are truly idiotic at times.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Looks like there's no reply to my previous post. Hmm....

Anyways, I was once told by a fellow church-lady, that I am "not a real woman if you don't want or have kids". Wow, thanks for that wonderful encouraging word!!! People are truly idiotic at times.

Thats when you smile with all sincerity and say "Well then whatever not wanting/having kids makes me in your eyes, I'm more than happy to be "

 

[Riot Riot Riot]

LOL. I just stared and laughed. Really loud. And didn't care if she was offended.

 

[Ariadne_GR]

^ I would have too. How rude and close-minded!